r/WorkReform 10d ago Silver 1 Helpful 3 Wholesome 2 All-Seeing Upvote 1 Take My Energy 1

Employers say Unions are completely useless and there's no reason to join them and to please pay attention to the multi-million dollar anti-Union propaganda campaigns they launch begging you to please not join a Union.

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u/VanillaCookieMonster 9d ago

And the bizarre thing is that a company that really gave a shit about you would use this new found "advertising budget" to put a note in your next paystub that says:

"We are giving you a 5% raise starting with THIS cheque. Please do not join a union and we will start using our profit margin to give you larger bonuses and raises each year."

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u/FattestMattest 9d ago

They'll really do anything other than acting in their employees best interest. Pay people what they are worth and treat them better to not join a union? Ha, no thanks.

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u/[deleted] 9d ago

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u/jeremymeyers 9d ago

the platonic ideal end state of capitalism is slavery

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u/abstractConceptName 9d ago

That was also the beginning though, wasn't it?

It's only because of the disgust of ordinary, decent people, that slavery isn't a thing.

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u/berryblackwater 9d ago

Capitalism is an oruboros, a monsterous snake who's destiny is to devour itself.

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u/DickButkisses 9d ago

While I think that is the concept, the snake has become Mr Creosote

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u/WikiSummarizerBot 9d ago

Mr Creosote

Mr. Creosote is a fictional character who appears in Monty Python's The Meaning of Life. He is a monstrously obese and rude restaurant patron who is served a vast amount of food and alcohol whilst vomiting repeatedly. After being persuaded to eat an after-dinner mint – "It's only wafer-thin" – he graphically explodes. The sequence opens the film's segment titled "Part VI: The Autumn Years".

[ F.A.Q | Opt Out | Opt Out Of Subreddit | GitHub ] Downvote to remove | v1.5

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u/chaun2 9d ago

Someone feed it a mint!

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u/ChristianEconOrg 9d ago

Capitalism is simply the rental model of slavery.

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u/DietDrDoomsdayPreppr 9d ago

The trick is to make the entire middle class a slave class so the only people left to be disgusted for others are the wealthy and their police armies.

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u/DesertSpringtime 9d ago

Slavery is still very much a thing.

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u/ThorsPrinter 9d ago

Slavery still is a thing, it's just done through the prison system now.

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u/DDDDcream 9d ago

Human trafficking, foster system…. Slavery is alive and well 🫠

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u/ConfuzedAndDazed 9d ago

Capitalism is just a system that can fall out of equilibrium. Corporations try to use that system in the most efficient manner. Nothing wrong with either of those things, it results in maximum efficiency of production. If we as a society could agree on how much production is really needed, we could determine how much work we really need to do. Instead it's just a race to max profit, and excess is hoarded at the top so that the lower wage earners have to work nonstop.

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u/abstractConceptName 9d ago edited 9d ago

There was a good piece on NPR recently about why American corporations changed in the 1980s.

Prior to that, main corporate goals included being able to provide a comfortable career for life for their employees, and various social goals.

The oil shocks and recession of the 70s (and cheap imports from Japan), revealed that when corporations become unprofitable, it is disastrous.

This led to a rethink of what the main priority of a corporation should be, and we know what the conclusion was: maximise shareholder value.

That was considered to be morally correct, too, because the alternative was the disaster the country has barely survived.

However it quickly became apparent that maximizing shareholder value could be achieved by squeezing the shit out of employees, which has led to the exploitative work culture and corresponding social problems we have today.

The pendulum has swung too far to the right.

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u/meep_meep_creep 9d ago

Poignant, terse, hitting, and true.

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u/DuneManta 9d ago

corporations will do anything possible to avoid paying their most vulnerable employees.

Fixed that for you.

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u/Cidertree 9d ago

I don’t know, I think if you get high enough up in the hierarchy some employees who already are wealthy are also overpaid. People who are more vulnerable already get screwed over more.

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u/sock_puppet0 9d ago

See the trick is you need to get high enough in the hierarchy to not be an employee. Being an asset works for getting monthly salary, but it's way better owning actual shares and shit.

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u/leftlegYup 9d ago

Employees are a cost of doing business. Nothing more.

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u/ZQuestionSleep 9d ago

That's what is is to them. Had to listen to an owner scream like a child in our small "office" (it was a trailer) building how pissed off he was that he "had to" "cut checks" to pay his staff.

This was a small town radio station, AM and FM station under one roof, so 2 of them. I was 1 of 3 real life meatbag bodied people that ran the station outside of the automation, which I program managed. Even after the original 2 other (so 5 total) air talents left and the 2.5 (one was a super part time) remaining people were forced to picked up the slack, we were greeted with our absentee owner basically throwing a shit fit temper tantrum that it should be cheaper to run a radio station and why we had to have any people actually run it in the first place? We were a news/talk station that had local, live, programming; why did anyone actually need to be in the studio and thus needed to be paid for their time?

He eventually got his wish, "downsized" everyone that wasn't the 3 sales people that sold the 5 ads total we were playing (outside of the automated shows' obligations) and their Manager, then fully reformatted the, what was, local news/talk AM station into the shittiest, fully automated, oldies station in the market. Real fun considering the number one FM oldies station was literally in the next town over; absolutely no reason for anyone to listen to our small town, shitty quality, AM music station anymore.

He was forced to sell it off just a year or two later.

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u/uL7r4M3g4pr01337 9d ago

exactly, they give people job because they can make money out of them and still keep most of it for themself.

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u/riodin 9d ago

Well, of course, if you don't need to work every minute of every day to survive, you might take time off and that would cut into profits!

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u/schrodingers_gat 9d ago

As far as I can tell corporations would rather pay $1 million for anything else to save $500,000 in salary. It's pathological.

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u/Holiday-Strategy-643 9d ago

And their most valuable.

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u/mochismuggler 9d ago

If a company pays for an anti union campaign the money still stays out of the hands of the poor :)

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u/MrCertainly 9d ago

It's never about profits. It's always been and will be about control.

If they can't control you through fear, stress, exhaustion, and exploitation -- then they run the risk of you being comfortable enough to walk away. And if we did that en masse, our entire economic system would collapse as it's predicated upon the (m)asses absentmindedly spending money on things they don't need to find relief that doesn't exist.

"A hungry dog is an obedient dog." And nothing we're currently doing is changing that. Protests? Oh you mean those peaceful strolls with chanting & singing songs? Yeah, THAT really puts the fucking fear of god in those capitalists. They're afraid of what we'd do if our demands aren't met -- oh wait, THEY'RE NOT AFRAID.

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u/ChewsOnRocks 9d ago

Corporations care about bottom line figures. If using their anti-union budget to increase compensation instead was an equally profitable or more profitable approach, they would do it. $2.5M on an anti-union campaign at Walmart, for example, would get every employee about $1/year more. Not only would that not attract any loyalty whatsoever, even at higher amounts, that doesn’t prevent someone from going to unions anyway. At least with the millions of dollars going toward solid video production and graphics, that’ll be much more effective than giving someone a dollar and going “please don’t.”

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u/Venum555 9d ago

If they take cared they would already be paying you more. The fact that they are paying you more as a response to unions means that the didn't care and unions basically forced the company to pay you more.

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u/Suspicious-mole-hair 9d ago

Also if a company ever tries to bribe you to not join a union, you can bet big that the union would be able to get you more.

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u/leftlegYup 9d ago

Companies exist to maximize profit. Employees are a cost.

If you thought anything other than this, then you are incredibly naive.

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u/GrimpenMar 9d ago

Employee ownership is a possibility as well.

Something something, "seize the means of production".

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u/thnderbolt 9d ago

If employees are just a cost to you, you can tell by the staff turnover.

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u/Two-Scoops-Of-Praisn 9d ago

They're literally doing this at starbucks with the union drive lol. Since the unionization effort started they've been like "look look were giving you 15% in raises over the next 8 months were a good company!" like oh sweet this is what you can give us if we bargain for it? Here's my union card!

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u/like_a_pharaoh 9d ago

its the principle of the thing: giving you a raise as long as you don't join a union is still giving you a raise, and that takes money away from shareholders/owners, the Most Important People In The Company (according to themselves)

I mean even without a union, what happens next if the employees feel 'entitled' to anything besides what you're already paying them?
They'll ask for more vacation time? Fewer hours? God forbid!

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u/emaw63 9d ago

and that takes money away from shareholders/owners, the Most Important People In The Company (according to themselves)

Legally speaking, they are. Companies have a legal obligation to maximize shareholder earnings. It’s part of why unions are so necessary, because that money is just not ever going to go to employees unless somebody makes the employers give it to them

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u/[deleted] 9d ago

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u/Ericalex79 9d ago

Actually employee turnover costs a helluva lot more than wage increases

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u/mszulan 9d ago

The way they budget, they don't recognize this. The budget is set to cover turnover as a "cost of doing business". If their accountants rose up and SHOWED them by reorganizing budget items, etc., you might get an intelligent manager to recognize this and change things.

Unfortunately, this isn't the only issue we're fighting. Back in World War 1, Capitalists got really scared. All the angry exploited workers were joined by a lot of angry soldiers coming home. Russia exploded in civil war and when it became apparent that the Bolsheviks were winning, lots of concessions were made to labor, trying anything to avoid other revolutions in the west. The big capitalists were angry and became angrier with everything that happened under FDR during the great depression. They began a concerted effort (and educated their children to follow them) to claw back every concession. They used wars, propaganda, religion, anything they could think of. This is a long-haul project for them and has continuity of purpose over time.

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u/swinebone 9d ago

I absolutely agree with you but it’s also kinda funny (funny/sad not funny/haha) that so many of our world’s problems can be traced back to WWI.

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u/comityoferrors 9d ago

It does, but most companies are looking really, really short-term. They don't factor that cost in.

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u/Sgt_Ludby 9d ago

They don't mind taking a loss on preventing unionization because it boils down to power and control, not so much profit maximization.

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u/3d_blunder 9d ago

Just like contraception improves (reduces) abortion rates.... but then they wouldn't be exerting CONTROL over their LESSERS.

Cruelty is a benefit in their eyes: it's more important to punish workers/mothers than it is to achieve their purported goal.

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u/DhampireHEK 9d ago

Except it really isn't. It costs way less to keep competent staff than trying to replace subpar staff that leaves every 6 months. That's the point these companies don't seem to get.

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u/[deleted] 9d ago

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u/GrimpenMar 9d ago

When shareholders are only holding shares till they can sell them at a profit, and your upper management is a revolving door of business school graduates cashing in on stock options, then you bet it is!

Long term is for losers! Pump those quarterlies, cash in, and move on before the consequences land on you.

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u/dewidubbs 9d ago

Costs less to retain employees in the long run. But if we gut the workforce before the end of this quarter, now we might really enhance our corporate Christmas bonuses

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u/zSprawl 9d ago

While I agree it’s cheaper to keep employees than always hiring new ones, you aren’t gonna really get lifetime Starbucks baristas without really raising the pay a lot. Sadly someone somewhere has done the math and chose the cheaper option.

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u/qqeyes 9d ago

Way cheaper. 2.5 mil split among 5k employees is a one-time $500 bonus, hardly enough to keep your labor from unionizing, and companies like Amazon spending that kind of money on anti-union marketing have WAY more employees than that.

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u/enjoytheshow 9d ago

And they’d still be fucking over employees. A union would fight for 5% annually. Company doing this 1 time would make 80% of the work force more than happy

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u/Q-ArtsMedia 9d ago

Unfortunately they are forbidden from doing exactly this by law.

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u/[deleted] 9d ago

No it isn't. IF the company did this — they wouldn't — they would give you far less than what they think the union could get you. There would be no advantage in doing it otherwise.

Corporations already wield far to much power; it's not "unfortunate" that they are blocked from wielding even more in an attempt to coerce you out of acting in your best interest.

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u/Pumpkin_Creepface 9d ago

They've always had that option, as well as they will never take that option.

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u/nickram81 9d ago

I got a job at Walmart. I think about 50% of the CBTs covered why you should not join a union. They spent so much time on it I figured I probably should join one.

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u/EternalBlue734 9d ago

My favorite is when they show you those anti-union videos that have actors in them that are most definitely in an actors union.

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u/Enough-Equivalent968 9d ago

is that technically classed as being a scab??

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u/Beatupmymenweek 9d ago

They used CBT to convince you not to join a union!?!?! That's monstrous!

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u/NeedsToShutUp 9d ago

Don’t kink shame me…

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u/viperex 9d ago

He's not shaming. He's concerned for you but if that's what gets you off, go for it

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u/Leviathansol 9d ago edited 9d ago

Unless it's regional, they do not. I have onboarded with Walmart twice and never have I seen a CBL that mentioned unions. The only time unions were mentioned was during orientation and "union season." Our People Lead during orientation told us to not sign papers or organize with union creators. At the time Walmart gave hourly associates a quarterly MyShare bonus. And our People Lead told us we wouldn't get that anymore if we unionized. Well fast forward to COVID and they took away the MyShare bonuses for hourly associates because Walmart was impacted by the pandemic, meanwhile Walmart actually got record profits and management got larger bonuses.

Walmart is very anti-union and has busted stores that unionized. It's pathetic they do this and Walmart doesn't do enough for associates for everything they've slowly taken away from them. An increase to $14/hr doesn't justify bonuses, attendance points, or forced P/PTO cashouts that are, in my opinion, all anti-associate. Oh, and add on cutting hours from even full-time associates, in my store, while not being able to meet hours, it's brilliant.

Edit: words

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u/fork_yuu 9d ago

CBT as in cognitive-behavioral therapy...?

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u/ashisacat 9d ago

Compulsory basic training

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u/deadla104 9d ago

Idk cock and ball torture makes more sense like the others are saying

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u/wontyoujointhedance 9d ago

Nah, cock and ball torture.

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u/darknavi 9d ago

Corporate bullshit training

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u/yangstyle 9d ago

Computer based training, I think. I hope? 😳

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u/payne_train 9d ago

Honestly I’d be fully in favor of requiring therapy instead of drug screening for employment offers

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u/orrenjenkins 9d ago

Computer based learning I think they meant cbl

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u/dylan15766 9d ago

Getting fired speedrun. Or the whole store closed down if others join with you.

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u/JustaRandomOldGuy 9d ago

They shut down all the deli's in several states because one tried to start a union.

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u/IrrigationDitch 9d ago

Yeah and Walmart has shut down stores before for the same reason.

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u/Breakernaut 9d ago

They use to have actual meat cutters...until they tried to unionize. They don't have meat cutters anymore.

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u/gatekeepingpunisher 9d ago

I had to do a case study on unions and walmart union busting for my MBA. It's wild how dirty walmart plays

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u/obsertaries 9d ago

The eternal contradiction of propaganda: you have to portray your enemy as dumb and weak, but also as an existential threat.

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u/xXTheFisterXx 9d ago

That is the cognitive dissonance that kills me inside

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u/Two-Mix 9d ago

The GOP/Conservative immigrant paradox: "Illegals are lazy!" also "Illegals are stealing our jobs!"

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u/obsertaries 9d ago

When they say that it SHOULD be taken as an claim of one of two things:

1: your job was so worthless that even a lazy person can do it

2: your boss doesn’t care whether your job is done well or not

But somehow neither of those seem to get into the head of conservative voters.

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u/Two-Mix 9d ago

Many conservatives do not even believe Biden won the presidency.

They're legit out of their damn minds. They vote against their own interests and unless they're business owners they bring down their own fellow employees.

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u/JoeCoolsCoffeeShop 9d ago

The GOP/Conservative voter fraud paradox: "Donald Trump is still the President!" also "It’s Biden’s fault gas prices are so high"

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u/TheElderWielder 9d ago

One of the worst things about the US (and boy are there a lot of things) is the pervasive anti-union sentiments among the general populace. So many people believe the propaganda fed to them and oppose the one entity that will stick up for them.

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u/MyUsername2459 9d ago

Anti-union propaganda has been pervasive in the media for decades. At this point the last few generations of Americans have grown up with movies, TV shows, and books all constantly saying how unions are corrupt and bothersome and just make workplaces more inefficient and impose burdensome bureaucracy on employees.

It does NOT help that one of the largest unions in the United States, the Teamsters, was pretty strongly tied to organized crime for decades.

Even though that affiliation ended 40+ years ago, the stereotype of unions as little more than a front for Mafia activity has been heavily encouraged by the same media sources that are forums for anti-union propaganda in other ways.

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u/majarian 9d ago

Ngl my experience being in the teamsters union was very underwhelming and soured me pretty hard towards unions for a bit, at this stage in life I assume it was by design but I could have easily been mismanagement

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u/TexMexBazooka 9d ago

I wasn’t crazy about my teamsters union but when the company tried to fuck key over they had my back- I’d likely be in jail otherwise

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u/temporallyyours 9d ago

This is going to dox me, but with things being the way they are….https://i.imgur.com/jn6bzQ7.jpg

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u/ImTryinDammit 9d ago

I was “warned” about the big bad Union at any entry level job I ever got. Orientation.. “they just charge you money.. for nothing.. they take it right out of your check.” This talking point was first and last.. but not technically part of the curriculum. The trainer/manager pretending to be cool with you and just helped you out with some advice on the side. That kind of shit sticks when you are young and broke and being paid $5 an hour… with no pto or any other benefits… broke and scared. It just sticks with you. I believed it for far too long.

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u/Big_Passenger_7975 9d ago

I have to be that guy. Unions are okay, but they are plagued with their own problems, and when the are big enough the likelihood they will fight for you is slim, especially if you aren't one of their favorites. People are not devoid of favoritism, corruption, and the like.

A union may help, but you actively have to hold them accountable.

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u/alarumba 9d ago

Corruption is a big one. A lot of pro-corp people infiltrate to steer the union away from anything to harm the corp. A union is useless if it's essentially a wing of the HR department.

I recently had HR tell me the union I was part of was ineffective and really I should be joining this other one. The same HR that complains about one of the unions "preventing them from helping employees."

I told them I'd look into it and never did.

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u/Z1rith 9d ago

it dosent even need to be as insidious as that, ive worked with a lot of non profits and the people that get on the boards/lead the unions tend to go mad with power. even well meaning people can lose their way, it's honestly really disturbing watching people's perspectives shift towards abusing power. the worst part is that it's a microcosm of how the world actually works, leaders with any bit of authority are all pretty much the same dumb people as everyone else, they all have emotions, make mistakes, and are incredibly easy to manipulate, just like everyone else.

im regretting this rambling now, i just made myself depressed lol.

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u/[deleted] 9d ago

What is their argument other than the monthly cost for being bad?

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u/cherylstunt69 9d ago

They usually go with “teacher and police unions are bad”

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u/SuperEagle1 9d ago

Police Unions are definitely bad, not teacher unions though

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u/darther_mauler 9d ago

Police unions are not bad. They literally help their members get away with murder and keep their jobs. Oh, you meant bad for society and not bad for the members.

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u/___Art_Vandelay___ 9d ago

Had me in the first half.

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u/im_juice_lee 9d ago

Idk, teachers union is sus too. I'm 100% on board with doubling teacher salary and getting awesome teachers. But I'm pretty sure everyone has had some awful teachers and much of teaching has dumb seniority based pay structures and it's really hard to fire bad teachers

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u/Sufficient-Piece-335 9d ago

Union members pay dues, and union membership usually includes entitlements like individual assistance with employment issues (every union will have its own rules and membership entitlements, but collective bargaining and individual employment assistance are by far the most common).

Protecting bad employees is a necessary function of individual employment assistance because for every bad employee who needs to be fired (and there are certainly some), there are other not-bad employees who are unfairly targeted by employers and it's not always obvious to a union whether it's the former or the latter. Even good employers make mistakes from time to time. Having the union provide assistance doesn't prevent an employer from firing bad employees, but it does require them to have an adequate case.

Even when a case ends up in court and the union wins, therefore protecting the employee, that still goes back to the employer not having an adequate case, because if it was any good, it would have stood up in court.

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u/Revolutionary-Pen393 9d ago

You live in America? Teachers can get canned in the majority of states on a whim. Hell most conservative states teachers don't even have a Union. Just an "association".

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u/odraencoded 9d ago

Police unions are bad... for everyone who isn't the police.

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u/poobly 9d ago

Unions can collectively bargain for different promotional/pay arrangements. So employers will play into the belief that 80% of people believe they’re the top 20% of employees so anything different than “merit” will harm them.

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u/[deleted] 9d ago

Sorry that’s not what I meant

What I was trying to ask was - what is their reasoning as part of the marketing campaigns that they try to tell employees that unions are bad?

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u/poobly 9d ago

That’s what I was getting at. Most people believe they’re above average so anything other than the employer deciding pay and promotion (like union rules) harms them since they believe they’re a high performer.

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u/[deleted] 9d ago

I get you, but that would be more of a management and above ‘level’?

(Not that I consider management roles superiority in any way, I’m just talking in terms of the target audience for the campaign)

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u/RevAT2016 9d ago edited 9d ago

Nah, many people at the bottom of the server/retail world legit think that "talking about pay" and "causing a scene" by organizing for more would hurt them

If youve ever done union organizing before, you will realize very quickly how many "im not political" types are walking around believing stuff directly against their best interests

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u/Mr_Quackums 9d ago

Most people believe salary is based on performance.

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u/Learned_Response 9d ago

The arguments I usually see are 1) they take a cut of your check and 2) we’re family and we can have these conversations directly, why would you let an outsider 3rd party come between us

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u/WideVariety 9d ago

That the union is not actually on the employee's side, it's on the union's side. Just view it as another company.

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u/FruckFrace 9d ago Bravo!

As some others have mentioned here, there is a propensity for unions to become as corrupt as the company. I’ve seen this many years ago from personal experience. The union becomes a corporation with its own leaders and greed. That is my biggest piece of advice I’d like to give to the younger generation in this labor battle - make better unions.

When us boomer/genZ think of unions it is often associated with the mob and corruption. That’s the thinking you are up against, and they aren’t incorrect. Like I said it seems to be natural that power hungry greedy people always make their way to the top of any organization- including unions.

Now I’m far from anti-union, we have them to thank for many great things. I’ve just personally been involved many times in corporations vs union fights that have NO benefit to the worker, only detriment. Please fix this don’t just put blind faith behind union = good. Make it good.

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u/ARealVermontar 9d ago edited 9d ago

"You'll lose your individual voice as an employee" like you ever had the ability to meaningfully change things at work by speaking your mind. "You won't be able to negotiate one-on-one without the union in between us" as if that has ever gotten you good pay or protected your rights. "We're a family and like to work in a spirit of cooperation, not competition between workers and management" as if this "family" treats you as well now as they would after some collective bargaining.

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u/krasher1000 9d ago

ACTUALLY! I love this was asked I was just about to say why. Basically when the employees are payed less vs paying an outside company this said money to stop from giving them pay raises it makes their books "feel/look" better. They are able to say to the next bloke that comes to buy the place "look our employees make this much and our business makes this much think about your profits." Plus the same people that created this bs rise in 📈 profits are the ones that use that number for the next job/company they go to. "OH did you see I brought the last said company profits margins up by so and so." This makes the business more lucrative to sell on face value if someone's just looking at numbers. It makes this much and it cost this much to run including labor. It's a numbers game for these people to climb a ladder that are building in front of themselves.

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u/Pristine-Today4611 9d ago

Well if they have that 2.5 million to employees as a bonus they would have less employees wanting a union

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u/Magical_Destroyer 9d ago

United we bargain, divided we beg.

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u/annothejedi 9d ago

This sums it up perfectly!

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u/BinkoBankoBonko 9d ago

The union was dissolved a few years ago at the state agency I work at. Now they can't retain people at working level. Pay has only gone up for administrative staff (A LOT). They keep adding middle management positions that do nothing. People who have been here for 20-30 years now make the same or less than people walking in the door.

Dissolving unions has only made the wealthier even wealthier. Who could've seen this coming! I really expected the greediest shits on the planet to do the right thing this time!

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u/chaun2 9d ago

Dissolving unions has only made the wealthier even wealthier.

It actually hasn't. It's made them less wealthy than they would otherwise be, and they know it. They have funded studies since 1978 that prove that paying workers suppressed wages has had a cooling effect on the world's economy. The 2020 study found that we are missing at least $70 trillion in the economy. They would have vaccumed up at least $40 trillion of that over the last 50 years of them suppressing wages. They know it is less profitable, so the only thing I can figure is that cruelty is the point.

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u/hollaback_girl 9d ago

It’s not the absolute wealth that they’re focused on. It’s the relative wealth. They’d be fine if we were all back to living in caves as long as they got the biggest one.

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u/lolzimacat1234 9d ago edited 9d ago

When I was in highschool, I tried to unionize my workplace and it (barely) failed. It was the most valuable lesson that I have ever learned - corporations will do anything possible to avoid paying their most vulnerable employees.

I am now in my 20s and will not take any job that is not unionized. Fuck. That.

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u/self_depricator 9d ago edited 9d ago

Im in a union and make less than they do at burger king down the street, but it would be more difficult for them to fire me, and I get high deductable health insurance and a health savings acct.

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u/shikitohno 9d ago

You mean low deductible or something? High deductible means you have to pay more out of pocket before the insurance actually kicks in, aka every awful plan offered by retail and food industry companies. High deductible may result in lower monthly premiums, but if anything goes wrong, you can be on the hook for much more money.

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u/self_depricator 9d ago

I meant high.

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u/shikitohno 9d ago

That's not really a benefit over a non-union job that pays more so long as it's full time, then. You might just be in a union that's in bed with management at that point, unless there's some other aspect to the benefits that make it compelling.

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u/CutieBoi69 9d ago

It could be an HSA healthcare plan. There are benefits to this type of plan even with the high deductible. It is extremely tax advantaged. Let’s not jump to conclusions about op’s situation.

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u/stanthebat 9d ago

In other news, Dracula says there's no point wasting your money on crucifixes and garlic.

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u/OfLittleToNoValue 9d ago

They're just THAT committed to your best interests.

Think of all the pizza parties that propaganda could have bought.

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u/SeriousCranberry4058 9d ago

Worked for my company 20 years. Owner sells the firm for an ungodly amount. Owner gives us nothing. Wants us to work real hard, so year end numbers look good, so he can make another ungodly amount. He could give 10 k to every worker, and not even feel it. Other employees think it's great that they still have a job.

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u/Deranged_Kitsune 9d ago

If companies put the money they spend on anti-union propaganda towards payroll, they wouldn't have to worry about unions. Well, worry far less.

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u/ToucanPlayAtThatGame 9d ago

Those views aren't inherently inconsistent. There are reasons unions could be bad other than that they benefit employees too much.

They cost money in the form of dues.

They make it harder to fire the worst employees, including those who may be dangerous or unliked by their co-workers.

They make labor decisions slower and less flexible, generating deadweight loss for the business.

Etc.

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u/serenade-to-a-cuckoo 9d ago

Do you think written contracts are better than verbal agreements when exchanging future payment of current services? if you said yes, you believe in unions.

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u/HoxtonLover 9d ago

Companies: Don't join a Union, you don't need to worry about your collective interests.

Also companies: We are in this Trade Association to further our collective interests in this industry.

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u/Pathetic_Cards 9d ago

They left out the part where the corporations are also blatantly violating federal (US) law that makes union busting and forcing employees to watch/read anti-union propaganda illegal.

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u/bozeman_montana 9d ago

Corporate gaslighting is a Real Thing.

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u/Jeronus 9d ago

It's funny the only time corporations act like they care about employees is when they try to stand up for themselves.

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u/Grasshopperboper 9d ago

I was IBEW local 3, we had lazy employees who sat around expect other to cover for them. Cant fire worthless employees, so yeah lazy people want unions.

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u/DemocratsSuckDick 9d ago

I worked a union job for about 6 years. Definitely got paid more than my worth, which was cool, and had pretty good benefits. That being said, my lazy coworkers took full advantage of being untouchable because of the unions protection. People that should have been fired could get away with whatever they wanted. Which made it a difficult work enviroment for the workers that actually did their jobs. My boss had employees yell at her and she couldn't take any disciplinary action against them.

Happy I got a much better job that also isn't union.

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u/OneAviatrix 9d ago

This sounds familiar…

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u/Amerpol 9d ago

Unions wouldn't be needed if companies didn't treat their employees like endentured servitude

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u/Gary-the-Duck 9d ago

Workers always get F'd. That's what being a worker is and why people try to hard to excel beyond that level. Hell, everyone gets F'd, but workers get it the worst, always, union or not. The unions F with people just as much as the corporations. We're talking about money here, and everyone is greedy.

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u/BerryLanky 9d ago

Unions are useless says the CEO’s who make tens of millions each year in bonuses from the work of those they pay am unlivable wage.

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u/DoctorMopNGlo 9d ago

10 years of dues and the union didnt much for me when push came to shove.

Dont count on the full pension they advertise either. Former coworker was in local paper being interviewed. He left at 64yo with a pension that was supposed to last the rest of his life. He had been told that his pension fund was on course to evaporate by age 72.

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u/TheComplayner 9d ago

Unions are great, but it also helps if the union stewards aren’t lazy shits

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u/Paracausality 9d ago

Fuck walmart

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u/Fluid_Dragonfly6704 9d ago

I’m Pro-Union till I’m dead. No way in hell would I recommend anyone to not join. Unless their industry does not have it. Quite hard to Unionize and takes a lot of heat.

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u/_The_Huntsman_ 9d ago

I worked for 2 months at one of the largest pork producers in the world earlier this year. The anti-union propaganda video in orientation is all about how the unions do nothing but take their money. The whole thing was bizarrely surreal. I've never seen a management team think so little of the workers, it crossed into hostility towards the floor workers all the time. I felt so bad for so many people.

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u/IWasteFromMyClarifyr 9d ago

My union protects us, advocates for us, and just assisted in getting us a fantastic four year contract with yearly raises, bonuses, and we lost NOTHING from our previous deal... lol.

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u/Noneverdid 9d ago

Yup. I just went through my annual “pro-employee” (read: anti-union) training. It’s an utter crock of shit. I took a few screenshots of the best slides. “Unions make promises that are too good to be true.” & “Unions aren’t worth the money.”

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u/OkRecommendation3606 9d ago

I love my union

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u/skztr 9d ago

"they are spending money to discourage it, therefor it must be good for us" is a really atrocious argument.

They also spend money to discourage you from harassing co-workers / driving forklifts while intoxicated.

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u/BatteryHorseMan 9d ago

Apples and oranges, bud.

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u/n8n10e 9d ago

Unions really are useless when you think about it. Like, all they do is guarantee you won’t be overworked, paid a livable wage, insurance benefits, pension, investment accounts, offer paid training, and grant you protections from unfair dismissal. Other than that, what good are they?

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u/Time_Faithlessness27 9d ago

I’m sure they spent that money to protect their workforce from spending their money on union dues. Not.

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u/karmapharm 9d ago

Is there a source that lists all companies donating to anti-union organisations?

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u/Safrel 9d ago

There are so many great Unions out that that offer skilled trade training centers, and there are also the soft-benefits like community.

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u/Punchanazi023 9d ago

Join a union or be a slave. It's not a hard decision.

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u/ColoTexas90 9d ago

They are terrified of a unified and consolidated work force.

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u/MT_Flesch 9d ago

the last two unions i was a member of actually were kinda useless in that they capitulated on just about every corporate request when contracts came up for renewal

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u/BananaOk6311 9d ago

Unions should have unions.

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u/r00byroo1965 9d ago

Even if you have a union, but have useless managers that are non union members 🤪

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u/Zmodem 9d ago

If a large corporation is using market capital to combat what employees are doing, it is not for the benefit of the employees.

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u/acityonthemoon 9d ago

Nothing in the history of humanity has lifted more people out of poverty and destitution than organized labor.

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u/Revolutionary-Pen393 9d ago

I worked for Walmart in college. Back in 06. You legit watch a movie when you get hired on how unions are bad. Idk if Walmart still does that though. Edit: by reading the comments the answer is yes, Walmart still very much does this. But now on a computer!

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u/First_Approximation 9d ago

Amazon is trying to overturn the recent vote in NY to unionize.

Billionaires like Bezos and Trump hate democracy because it takes away their absolute power. Bezos is fighting democracy in the workplace, Trump in politics.

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u/elegant-quokka 9d ago

Legit is there any downside to unionization for a worker? It seems like an easy yes vote but I’m not really involved in this sort of thing so I don’t know.

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u/SeriousCranberry4058 9d ago

Unions were created for good reasons. Although both the mob involvement, and examples of union rules gone too far, have given them a bad reputation.

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u/jorrylee 9d ago

I knew a guy, a pastor, running long term care homes, who didn’t feel like dealing with unions, so whenever they asked for pay and benefits like the union staff elsewhere just got, he would negotiate and offer them similar or more plus good work environment so they wouldn’t have to unionize to get the same. That lasted twenty years and staff were happy and I think low turnover. He retired and a year later they unionized because the new boss didn’t listen. You may not NEED a union if the bosses are great, but be ready to unionize if the boss doesn’t listen. Edit to add that this is not USA and LTC is funded by the province’s healthcare with board paid by the resident (was $20 a day for lodging, food, laundry, etc).

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u/PoorlyAttemptedHuman 9d ago

Well you can't blame them for not wanting to let loose of their most precious possession, the control they have over the people that make them what they are.

...except you very much can and should blame them for it and they are scared

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u/TeamGravityAnalytica 9d ago

When a high school teacher in 1970 was asked "Why do you give your students grief over having long hair" She replied, because if they are angry about that they won't find other things to get upset about.

The pro-union / anti-union fight is just a side show. The real issue is income taxes. If the US had a proper personal income tax system that prevented or disincentivized greed at the very top like we used to have in the 1950s and 1960s corporations would pay their workers more. Would pay for more benefits. Would lower prices, etc.

Unionizing doesn't help solve any real issues it just redirects money from one group of greedy people who aren't taxed into the hands of another group of greedy people who won't be taxes: union leaders.

Did this generation not learn anything from watching the BLM leaders funnel money to themselves?

Stand together and push through tax reform. Stop bickering over distractionary topics. Understand the problem and solve the actual problem.

The problem is a CEO can make 100 million dollars and pay less % taxes than a teacher. Make it so 99 million of that is taxed at 99.9%. The idea that this will prevent innovation or lower drive is bullshit. Einstein never made a lot of money. It WILL prevent narcissists and sociopaths from becoming CEOs though.

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u/SouthernZorro 9d ago

Welcome to the New Feudalism.

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u/SwimBrief 9d ago

I’ve never heard a corporation say that unions “do nothing”…the problem is they cost the corporation a lot of money by putting measures in place that severely reduce efficiency for the sake of employee protections.

In some cases, employees are getting screwed over so it absolutely makes sense to cut into workplace efficiency to protect employees.

In other cases, employee situations are fine so cutting workplace efficiency just risks making things on you the employee harder while also risking getting your site shut down or layoffs if your company becomes unsuccessful.

In ALL cases it’s bad for the company itself so of course they’ll spend money to prevent it, you as an employee just need to determine whether it’ll make things better for you big picture depending on the situation.

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u/Dooth 9d ago

Starbucks is upgrading base pay at every location except the ones that unionized to $15 an hour! Scared much?

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u/eastern_rising1890 9d ago

The inherent waste of capitalism.

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u/Optimal_Ad_4571 9d ago

Interesting when the overwhelming majority of employee groups in the last two years who had a union vote rejected them.

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u/Your69thFather 9d ago

Not an American here, can someone explain what's this all about?

What are unions? Why do people like/hate them?

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u/nomodz4real 9d ago

Groups that workers in a company can join that engages in collective bargaining with their employer to ensure the employees that are members of the union get fair treatment and pay.

Full disclosure unions can be bad but overall they give employees a means of working with their employer in regards to working conditions as opposed to just having to accept it or quit.

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u/ScarthMoonblane 9d ago

Collective bargaining. Unions can force companies to pay more my threaten in a walk out of all their members.

Unions can become parasitic if given too much power. One of the most corrupt organizations in the world are called the Teamsters (largest union in the US). Unions do not bring anything productive to the company itself. Most of the large industries that rely on unions are also failing. And companies that compete with them that have no unions tend to do better. For example Ford and General Motors are doing worse than Honda, Toyota and Tesla.

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u/sonicz3r0 9d ago

Why I'm glad I'm in a industry that has a lot of union companies, the Airlines have pretty good union reputation

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u/ScarthMoonblane 9d ago

And the airlines have been progressively becoming worse financially for the last twenty years. Same as the auto industry and Hollywood industry. All three have one thing in common - extensive union integration. Unions have one purpose. To extract as much from companies as possible without killing them. They are not synergistic.

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u/DoverBoys 9d ago

The most amusing part about anti-union campaigns is that these companies spent way more than what it would've cost to let the unions happen. For many of them, at this point, it's sunk cost fallacy and just plain control.

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u/Cllydoscope 9d ago

I wonder if people realized that NFL, NBA, NHL players etc. are basically in unions and were able to see how they can negotiate with their “employers” for better pay and accommodations, if more Americans would take unions more seriously.

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u/vox_popular 9d ago

Isn't there the possibility that unions could cause both employees and the employer to lose?

In a game theory set-up in which the creation of a union could cause employees to lose $1M and the employer to lose $5M, wouldn't it make sense for the employer to spend $2.5M to discourage the formation of a union?

I am all for collective bargaining, since it is proven beyond a smidge of a doubt that capitalists have cornered all the profits from employee productivity gains since the 1980s, but the path to righting this injustice need not be filled with irrational gloss-overs.

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u/IneaBlake 9d ago

If you don't want unions, don't have working conditions that make it people's only option 🙂

People don't need a union if the place doesn't fucking suck. It's really simple.

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u/Lovee2331 9d ago

Bruh, I hate my union! I work for a big corporation and my department specifically is unionized. We are currently being treated like shit! It’s been 8 months of non stop shit and nothing is being done about it

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u/Batmaninja6288 9d ago

And remember, everyone who is against labor unions has a favorite boot flavor. Ask them what it is, they love to talk about it.

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u/Hoitaa 9d ago

We have this weird opposite day thing going on here

Our employer says yeah sure, join the union. But the union is shit and predatory so... Nah.

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u/Boomer1058 9d ago

Unions do things right. They don't let you cut corners to cut expenses. That's why employers don't like them. They want to get everything done as cheaply as possible. You get what you pay for. Union workers are skilled Craftspeople, not a bunch of poorly paid employees with no benefits retirement, or rights

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u/miesto 9d ago

I've been in a union for 4 years , it isn't going to solve all the problems in the workforce. But it sure is nice not being able to be fired for silly reasons, having guaranteed sick time and clear contracted rules that can't be violated. Shity people will still pass shity union contracts, rock the vote ppl.

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u/perfectstubble 9d ago

I’m in a union and absolutely love it. That being said if there is going to be a new wave of unionization in America, the unions have to do better for their workers than the previous generation. There are a lot of nefarious reasons that union participation dropped but a big part of it was the unions losing sight of the workers and focusing more on the union itself. (And also organized crime.)

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u/-js23 9d ago

A company telling you unions are bad is like a drug dealer telling you heroin isn’t addictive.

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u/LegatoSkyheart 9d ago

If Unions are useless, then why are companies so afraid of them?

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u/SearchMoist1964 9d ago

Is it worth it to join the union for a summer job that you don’t care about?

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u/obnoxious_scam 9d ago

I see a lot of back and forth about the value of unions in the comments. All I've got to add is that the union is the reason my wife and I own two brand new cars, nice house, and we have essentially free medical, dental, and vision insurance. Not to mention the guaranteed retirement and we're in our thirties.

Unions equal security and a comfortable middle class life.

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u/Great8Thought 9d ago

Fuck big pharma

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u/sipa_dan 9d ago

Every company that has a Union deserves it…

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u/SkillFullyNotTrue 9d ago

If anti union can be made into a profit making machine why can’t we make a Union making be made a business?

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u/assmuncher4206969 9d ago

I've been non union and union and I pick UNION every fucking time.

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u/immigrantpatriot 9d ago

I canvassed in my red (formerly heavily unionized) Pennsylvania county to GOTV today & talking up union successes like Amazon & Starbucks when ppl said they feel they have zero power at their workplace/over their wages/conditions literally got me a couple of commits to vote so...it's working.