r/antiwork Jan 14 '22 Silver 5 Helpful 16 Wholesome 10

So sorry, I'm broke so I can only pay you $77 for my food. You were great though.

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15.0k

u/Shruikathemonk Jan 14 '22 Silver Gold Helpful Wholesome Starry

American tipping culture is a cancer.

229

u/Anxious-Sir-1361 Jan 15 '22

I'm Canadian; the tipping culture is similar. What bothers me is what I call the “good-looking girl” subsidy. These are waiting jobs at chic spots where the waitresses bring in 6 figure tips per year (before they become real estate agents), more or less for being hot. I'd rather the tips are for those that need them.

225

u/[deleted] Jan 15 '22

Well, you just highlighted another problem with tipping culture. It makes it impossible for workers to be paid equitably.

11

u/CJLB Jan 15 '22

I always hated working kitchens because I felt like I was working twice as hard as the servers for less than half the money. Then I tried serving for a few years and realized I just hate the service industry in general. But at least the bump in pay from serving quickly earned me enough money to go to trade college.

4

u/Anxious-Sir-1361 Jan 15 '22

The hypocrisy suck. At least you took advantage of it to move forward in your life. For the record, serving can be challenging. The job that’s pretty cruisy and fun IMO, except maybe Friday/ Saturday night when your swamped, is being the bartender.

6

u/Drift_Life Jan 15 '22

Also, hot girls aren’t hot forever

3

u/SoftNSquishy Jan 15 '22

Uggh yes, yet another reason why capitalism is sooo so fucked.

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u/Sammy279123 Jan 15 '22

Equitably? Who says it needs to be equitable. That’s similar to saying top real estate sellers should make as little as the chump who just shows up for work and texts all day. Or Vice versa. I’m not a chippendale model because A: they wouldn’t hire me and B: if they did then no one or less people would hire their crew. Some things in life are just the way they are but at the end of the day, people need to eventually find out what they’re good at and productivity needs to happen to deserve your pay..

13

u/zenchemin Jan 15 '22

Being pretty isn't the same as working hard and being paid by merit.

2

u/cookiemonstah87 Jan 15 '22

There are studies showing most people always tip the same percentage, whether that's 0% or 50% of a bill, unless something was exceptionally good or bad. Working harder or being better at your job as a server doesn't net higher tips, but giving someone a boner does.

Also comparing serving to being a Chippendale dancer is apples and oranges. Servers are hired to take orders, deliver food, and interface with customers. Chippendale dancers are hired to look a certain way, dance, and make people horny. A Chippendale is absolutely more productive by being more appealing to customers. A server's productivity has absolutely nothing to do with what they look like, so expecting their pay to be determined by whether a customer wants to sleep with them is pretty fucked.

0

u/Sammy279123 Jan 16 '22

You’ve taken on the “role” of defining what something is. Yeah, there are people that have static tip amounts but if my service is terrible I tip to reflect that. If my waitress/waiter is talking to their friends instead of bringing me a water refill then that’s poor performance. You’re wrong about my analogy and the Hooters franchise success proves it

23

u/[deleted] Jan 15 '22

[deleted]

23

u/rockdoc21 Jan 15 '22

Cactus Club?🤣

18

u/Anxious-Sir-1361 Jan 15 '22

Yep, I'm from Edmonton originally and 100% both of these spots.

3

u/TRU35T0RY Jan 15 '22

Can confirm I'm from edmonton also. A friend used to date one (still might be) but around the time they met he would brag about her being balling and paying for shit. I found out she was a waitress and it blew my mind.

3

u/Anxious-Sir-1361 Jan 15 '22

Oh yeah, those girls are 100% ballers. I was pointing out in another reply, loads of them ars super cool too. Just taking advantage of a systematic opportunity, it's not like they created it... There's a perverse demand, for the attention of attractive people.

1

u/Hardinyoung Jan 15 '22

Tumbleweeds?

2

u/judithishere Jan 15 '22

Someone in my family works at Joey in the US and it's exactly the same there.

63

u/[deleted] Jan 15 '22

Friend of mine worked a bar in Montreal, compared her job to stripping with just some more clothes on.

The obvious downside I'll leave to your imagination.

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u/Anxious-Sir-1361 Jan 15 '22

I had an Australian GF years back, and she came and visited me in Edmonton. In Australia, they pay servers a solid wage, and there is no tipping. She was appalled by the tipping culture. She brought up the whole prostituting themselves argument. Part of that was her seeing some of my guy friends doing the honoured douchy married guy tradition of flirting with the waitress and her flirty right back (for tips.) Sometimes it takes the eyes of a foreigner to really see how weird and appalling a custom is.

27

u/nujuat Jan 15 '22

As an Australian I'm worried that typing culture is starting to creep in with American run delivery services etc. Here, tipping is for when someone does a particularly good job at something. Like we tipped our movers a lot since they were really quick and helpful. But you assume they're going to be paid enough without it.

I feel this is problematic with delivery services since you're expecting a reward for exceptional work that isn't done yet. And then if you don't tip and they happen to do good work then you can't go back and do it after the fact (ie how it's supposed to work).

I guess the other thing here is that all tax is declared when you buy something, so here hidden charges generally isn't a thing. And keep in mind, things are a lot more expensive here than in the USA because we have better wages and no hidden charges to bump up the price.

7

u/Superest22 Jan 15 '22

Agreed - I HATE that stupid 'add a tip for your driver' on uber etc. Never doing that.

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u/DrakkoZW Jan 15 '22

I feel this is problematic with delivery services since you're expecting a reward for exceptional work that isn't done yet.

Also, delivery isn't a service that often warrants going above and beyond, so there's very little reason to tip. I don't know how to rate a delivery other than pass/fail, and that's not a healthy way to handle tips

3

u/vurjin_oce Jan 15 '22

Yea I saw a picture of a maccers in America that had a pile of food for door dash deliveries that weren't going to get pocked up because none of the jobs paid a tip upfront. So insane.

1

u/dankchristianmemer7 Jan 15 '22

Use a delivery app. Have no cash on you. Don't tip 😎

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u/Superest22 Jan 15 '22

The apps annoyingly now ask for one when you order food. So dumb.

1

u/cookiemonstah87 Jan 15 '22

Do they not allow the "tip in cash" option anymore? I'm too poor to order delivery so I have no idea how it even works these days

1

u/Superest22 Jan 16 '22

Not that I'm aware of (maybe due to pandemic etc)

1

u/Anxious-Sir-1361 Jan 15 '22

I lived in Australia in 2003-04. I did notice it was pretty expensive. I’d chalked that up to it being an island, obviously a damn big one, where certain things needed to be imported?

12

u/kyliequokka Jan 15 '22

Solid wage can be $28/hour for casual serving here in Australia. Tipping is a disgusting custom.

2

u/Anxious-Sir-1361 Jan 15 '22

I liked how professional much of the waiting staff were in restaurants and hotels. It was their vocation.

51

u/JradM01 Jan 15 '22

As an Australian who has visited both America and Canada twice, your tipping culture is utter bullshit. People removing your luggage from the back of a taxi and expect a tip, waitresses literally taking the food from the kitchen and putting on your table expecting a tip. It's crazy. In Australia we would tip if the staff went OVER and ABOVE their normal duties, but even then I can't remember the last time I've tipped anyone. It's just implied that your job is to wait tables, drive taxis, clean and anything thing you do in that job is covered by your wage, not paid for by the customer who's already paid for services rendered.

5

u/cookiemonstah87 Jan 15 '22

That's how it SHOULD be here... I hate that businesses have been able to offload paying their staff onto customers for so long. Then they'll try to say raising minimum wage would mean they have to increase prices. How so? We already pay your staff more than you do!

2

u/JradM01 Jan 15 '22

Exactly. And you would find the increased price for the service probably wouldn't come close to the amount each customer is forced to tip. I remember being FORCED to pay 20% tip of the bill because it was standard and if I enjoyed the service I could tip more. I asked if the chef's got a % of the tips and was told no. To me, the food is what I came to the restaurant for, not the service so that's what I'd be tipping for.

1

u/Anxious-Sir-1361 Jan 15 '22

It is insane. We’ve both done the exchange. I lived in Australia too when I was 25 for a year and some.

Yes, North America's tipping culture is total BS. Primary services, an electrician/plumber, etc., you would not tip, but many lower-paid service providers try to create the custom of tipping. What is most problematic is how these tips are supposed to even the playing field for low-paid workers, but it's been co-opted in disturbing ways where money flows to those that don't need it - attractive people. Beyond bringing the food to the table, where the “service” exchange is, is when a super attractive Waitress comes out and flirts with average guys (often in relationships) that wouldn't usually be able to talk to her.

I should point out when we were younger; this wasn't quite as insidious. It would be like a bunch of 21-year-old guys (we were reasonably handsome) chatting with a 20-year-old girl and having laughs, often legitimate. She wouldn't care if we tipped her huge. Where it would be more “gross” is seeing the married men, or men in relationships, flirting hard with her and her reciprocating (within reason) to get extra tips. There are nuances to it all; it wasn’t black or white. I never blamed the girl for taking advantage of a situation her looks/ personality provided her… it’s the system that is f**ked. Another Australian friend worked as a waitress in a chic downtown Toronto bar. Her view on it all changed when she got to enjoy the benefits.

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u/ezSpankOven Jan 15 '22

Yeah and if you go in to the restaurant, don't give the waitress the time of day after she trys to initiate her flirty routine just watch the quality of service go into the toilet when she realizes she's not batting her eyes into a fat tip.

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u/Tel-aran-rhiod Jan 15 '22

I really wish people on this sub would stop using the word prostitute in a derogatory way. Sex work is work, show some solidarity

2

u/kyliequokka Jan 15 '22

Except for when it's thinly veiled sex slavery. Which it mostly is.

1

u/Tel-aran-rhiod Jan 15 '22

Where are all you cottage experts on the sex work industry coming from? Have you worked in the sex industry? How many sex workers do you personally know? Sex slavery is a real thing that exists, and in some places is a lot more prevalent, but it's far, far away from being the majority or the norm in the industry

1

u/Anxious-Sir-1361 Jan 15 '22 edited Jan 15 '22

Thanks for your feedback, I agree with you. That was how my GF at that time, 2010 said it.

-2

u/Tel-aran-rhiod Jan 15 '22

Fwiw, if you're relaying something problematic like that, that somebody else said, it's a good idea to preface it by saying that the language is problematic, otherwise it can just serve to further normalise shitty attitudes

0

u/[deleted] Jan 15 '22

[deleted]

6

u/Tel-aran-rhiod Jan 15 '22

It's not the same, lawyers are not working class, nor are they broadly oppressed and persecuted. Punching up vs punching down

Also nobody uses the word "lawyer" as a slur, and the widely shared distaste many have for lawyers is not steeped in internalised misogyny and slut-shaming

1

u/vurjin_oce Jan 15 '22

No such thing as punching up or down. It's just punching. Also why can't we use the word prostitute as a derogatory word, even sex workers use it as a derogatory word and try to say they are 'adult entertainers', 'adult content creators', 'Escorts' and so on.

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u/[deleted] Jan 15 '22 edited Jan 15 '22

[deleted]

1

u/Tel-aran-rhiod Jan 15 '22

lol that's not what oppression and persecution means, like at all. it sounds like you just hate sex workers and don't understand social stratification

2

u/vanticus Jan 15 '22

For someone in r/AntiWork, that’s some strong pro-work and anti-worker as sentiment

1

u/cookiemonstah87 Jan 15 '22

Are telemarketers routinely attacked or even killed by the people paying them? Are crimes against them treated less seriously by police because of their line of work? Is it illegal in most states for them to do their jobs? I could go on, but it really isn't even remotely the same thing.

20

u/acb1971 Jan 15 '22

I had a friend that paid for her bachelor's degree waitressing two nights a week at a nightclub. She is very beautiful. She spent her summers traveling.

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u/Sunni-Bunni Jan 15 '22

The thing that bothers me is that Alberta (my province) has been paying waitresses/waiters $15/hr for years now but it's still expected to tip 15-20%. I'll still tip if I receive above average service, but I genuinely don't understand why it's still expected. I guess it's just ingrained in our society now regardless of how much they make per hour.

24

u/Artuhanzo Jan 15 '22

The tipping is crazier here in Canada now..

People are expecting same % as US, but unlike US waitresses are at least min. pay job.Used to be 10%, but now all the default is at least 15% tips.

13

u/AlexiLaIas Jan 15 '22

“Those are rookie numbers, you gotta pump those numbers up”

Wait staff pretty much think 20% is the new minimum. The system is cancer.

Also, Canada pays $15 HR plus 15-20% tips? Phew. Any moderately attractive woman working in food service must be living a 5 star lifestyle.

2

u/Artuhanzo Jan 15 '22

Not all, speaking of that. Explains why waiters at restaurants like Cactus are all young woman..

1

u/Anxious-Sir-1361 Jan 15 '22

Hot girls, when I was a young adult in Edmonton, could definitely live a “baller” lifestyle. Drive a nice car, loads of money for clothes, hair and make-up. Trips.

1

u/GlowyStuffs Jan 15 '22

The big problem is automatic tip suggestions on credit card pay apps. Here it's 25%, 20%, or 18%, or other. It used to be 20, 15, 10, or other. The bar keeps getting moved. So if you tip 10 or 15, it's like you are made to feel like an asshole of you go out of your way to enter in a lower other, regardless of if the person on the other end really cares much at all, or if they gave exceptional service or just the basics of basics.

3

u/p00ty916 Jan 15 '22

15 to 20% is pretty standard in California.

7

u/Anxious-Sir-1361 Jan 15 '22

That's what it is here in Toronto - 15 to 20%. A pet peeve is how they try to sneak tips in all over the place now - subways, star bucks, etc.

3

u/Shalashaskaska Jan 15 '22

I draw the line there. If it’s any kind of fast food establishment you can shove a tip up your ass. I’m not paying extra to watch you hand me my fuckin food at the counter.

-1

u/PuzzleheadedRepeat41 Jan 15 '22

That’s cool! But I worked at a country club 10 miles from Canadian border. The Canadians loved our golf course. We called Canada “the land of the 10 percenters.” No offense! I loved going into Canada before they made it more difficult to travel back and forth.

3

u/Artuhanzo Jan 15 '22

I believe food for menu price is more expensive here tho.

The overall price after tip likely to be cheaper at US.... (Basically we are more expensive for everything sell online too!)

25

u/canneverbehappy Jan 15 '22

Yes bro a lot of girls I know that are hot are actually waitresses and they make like 50 to 75 grand a year working at like WingHouse and twin peaks. Madness

3

u/HeartbreakAnd808z Jan 15 '22

I went out with my roommates to a restaurant, where our waiter was a good looking guy. One of my roommates said she never tips, but she’ll tip him because he’s cute.

An attractive woman downtown probably makes a killing

1

u/Anxious-Sir-1361 Jan 15 '22

They can make an absurd amount of money in places like downtown Toronto.

2

u/CreatedSole Jan 16 '22

That's what hooters is based on

1

u/Anxious-Sir-1361 Jan 16 '22

Lol... I feel Hooters is kind of that stripper vibe, whereas if you walked into, say, the Cactus Club, the waitresses are near models.

4

u/thrashgender Jan 15 '22

It varies by location, but admittedly attractiveness isn’t as much of a job stopper as it’s made out to be in serving. My last restaurant had its share of beautiful women making bank, but honestly 8/10 of the top performers in FOH were far from “conventionally attractive” they were just super fuckin good at their jobs

4

u/Anxious-Sir-1361 Jan 15 '22

I like hearing the last part. I like the idea of working hard, be rewarded. Though they should do like places like Australia/ NZ did a long time ago... pay them all a decent wage, to begin with.

3

u/thrashgender Jan 15 '22

Agreed. It just leads to the less than perfect employees getting fucked with slow shifts and sections, and having to work harder and more often to make enough to live

Plus side is the longer you’re at work the less time you have to spend money elsewhere :)

2

u/[deleted] Jan 15 '22

You can also be attractive but highly introverted and not bubbly. Reserved non-bubbly individuals won’t make good tips no matter how attractive because the personality just isn’t right for the job of waitress and some don’t like to act a fake happy so might not smile very much… so some just don’t have the waitressy personality that would result in good tips

1

u/Anxious-Sir-1361 Jan 15 '22

Good point. More of that pro-extrovert bias that exists. I love how you add context and show that it's not just black and white.

1

u/Koalemos99 Jan 15 '22

Only Quebec has a lower minimum wage for restaurant staff (10.80 vs 13.50 an hour). The idea of always tipping is garbage, tip for service outside Quebec. That’s it.

Source: https://www.restaurantscanada.org/industry-news/minimum-wage-by-province/