r/antiwork Jan 14 '22 Silver 5 Helpful 16 Wholesome 10

So sorry, I'm broke so I can only pay you $77 for my food. You were great though.

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30.2k Upvotes

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4.4k

u/kuribosshoe0 Jan 15 '22 Silver Helpful

American tipping culture just shifts responsibility from employer to customer. The employer is responsible for paying you, that’s where the problem lies.

251

u/RayFinkle1984 Jan 15 '22

Subsidized wages. Kind of like how many of Walmart’s employees collect food stamps or use Medicaid. We subsidize their shit wages with our taxes. WE foot the bill yet again.

65

u/[deleted] Jan 15 '22

[deleted]

4

u/aerowtf Jan 15 '22

trickle up economics

2

u/CappyBlue Jan 15 '22

I’d rather pay their employees the old fashioned way- through slightly higher prices, while they receive a fair wage, and don’t have to go through the degradation of tipped work, or the demoralization and stigma that go along with applying for social services. People deserve to live with dignity.

-7

u/carlcapo77 Jan 15 '22

That’s ok, because if retail paid living wages, retailers would just raise prices, and you foot the bill again.

2

u/DouglerK Jan 15 '22

Welp working at minimum wage that just means Im paying the same relative amount. So I'm still footing the same percentage of the bill at minimum wage. Those who foot the bill would be those who don't wee wage increases while seeing price increases. Ideally this would mean the wealthiest individuals foot or that the bill could just even be footed by the company. You honestly think Wal-Mart operates on such thin margins that raising the pay of the average worker would threaten the profitability of the company?

1

u/carlcapo77 Jan 17 '22

You do realize a corporations only function is to generate profit? Walmart would definitely increase prices to offset losses from being forced either thru competition, or government regulation to increase wages.

1

u/DouglerK Jan 17 '22

I do realize that. Did you think I didn't?

-2

u/ADenver-dude Jan 15 '22

That’s a bit bullshit- Walmart wages index to inflation hasn’t changed. Just more people looking to Walmart to support family

Can’t see it as Walmarts fault there are more non skilled people

1

u/DouglerK Jan 15 '22

Well if Wal-Mart requires X number of people to operate and requires certain skills or not to operate then they need to pay each of those X people a living wage regardless. Its not the workers fault that jobs require less and less skill while still requiring a human being to do them. If a monkey could be trained to do it it doesn't matter. If you need a human being to do X work then you pay them a livable wage or find another way to get X done 🤷‍♂️

-2

u/ADenver-dude Jan 15 '22

No not really

Wage is a reflection of supply of labor and their ability to find other more higher paying jobs

Personally I’m not paying an extra quarter for a banana based on your need.

It’s based on your ability and willingness to work vs others

2

u/DouglerK Jan 15 '22

You wouldn't pay a quarter more for a banana knowing that that made sure others were being treated fairly. I just wish there was a kind of connected group that could identify assholes like you. Then when you come into our stores and use our services with such contempt for us as people we can know to take that banana, and shove it up your fucking ass.

You are simply refusing to pay the equitable cost of what something is worth period. You are not entitled to get discount bananas at the expense of others well-being. The price of a banana is the price of a banana. If you don't like the price of the banana if/when it goes up then guess what? That means you can't afford bananas anymore. Sucks to be you eh? If it costs X for a Banana to be produced and you refuse to pay it then either

A) You don't get bananas anymore B) You think Bananas should be produced in a way that is exploititive to meet your expectations of the price.

Again if X job needs a human to do it then X job deserves a living wage. If you can't afford that, find another way to get X done, do it yourself, or you don't get X. It's that simple.

1

u/ADenver-dude Jan 16 '22

if employee is working there of their free will in the United States (with its rules on occupational safety) than they are treated fairly. I have no interest nor desire nor ability to decide what is fair for an individual. Only they can - by accepting the job.

Your wage has nothing to do with need or deserve - that’s your mistake.

It’s your ability and your competition

1

u/DouglerK Jan 16 '22

Its not free will when not working there would result homlessness.

1

u/ADenver-dude Jan 16 '22

Sure it is

Walmart isn’t the only employer. Hell they aren’t the only grocery store.

The fact you need a home or don’t doesn’t impact your value to an employer.

1

u/DouglerK Jan 16 '22

It sure isn't when one is under the constant threat of losing access to basic needs.

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u/DouglerK Jan 15 '22 edited Jan 15 '22

So if you won't pay X for a Banana like I said, you don't get the Banana or find another way to obtain that banana than expecting other human beings to do the work for you. And people like you call US lazy and unskilled. Go fuck yourself.

1

u/ADenver-dude Jan 15 '22

I am not aware of Walmart having an issue finding employees

1

u/DouglerK Jan 15 '22

And the point of that statement is?

1

u/ADenver-dude Jan 16 '22

They can get the banana for a low price so power to them

1

u/DouglerK Jan 16 '22

You can get a banana for a low price because Wal-Mart pays employees crap wages for their produce department. Wal-Mart gets a banana at whatever price they get a banana at. Then they also have to pay for labor to recieve and proccess that banana. They then charge some amount more than the base cost plus the cost of labor. You expect the banana at a cheaper price by expecting Wal-Mart to pay their employees sub-standard wages.

152

u/ApplicationNo6508 Jan 15 '22

Until that is changed, not tipping is just antiworker bad praxis.

263

u/AgentArticuno Jan 15 '22

This is kinda a chicken and egg question though, isn't it? As long as people keep tipping, owners will never see any reason to raise wages because a small number of servers make a killing with tips while the owners hardly have to pay their staff a dime.

139

u/Pironious Communist Jan 15 '22

That implies both a world where people large scale stop tipping and a world where owners give a shit that their employees are starving. Neither of these things are going to happen.

75

u/AgentArticuno Jan 15 '22

Personally I continue tipping despite my opposition to the (necessity of the) practice because of this.

25

u/[deleted] Jan 15 '22

personally i dont tip w carry out and strongly suggest and support giving any wait staff, at table, cash in hand nonchalantly. of course. fuck credit card tips. It gives management an option to double dip into their employee’s money. Fuck MGMT. Not the band.

-15

u/mind_remote Jan 15 '22

People don’t realize how important carry out tips can be. Even small ones often make the difference between a living wage or not

26

u/ReflectStratos Jan 15 '22

I’m literally doing the waiters work, bringing the food to myself. WHY THE FUCK SHOULD I TIP FOR CARRYOUT!?

-19

u/mind_remote Jan 15 '22

I think the answer is in my first comment but someone is bringing you food, often taking your order, answer questions about the menu, informing you about specials, processing payment, and doing everything a server does

14

u/[deleted] Jan 15 '22

86 all that. if i know what i want, have zero questions, probably order it all the time…Why would i pay someone to move my food from the kitchen counter to the check out counter to cash me out? At that point It SHOULD fall on the business owner if their staff isn’t actually serving tables. Their hourly rate needs to change. carry out tips are ridiculous. They are not servers at that point, they are counter staff and should be paid like a regular staffed employee. agree to disagree.

edit: ya carry out tips might be important to you and others, But that doesn’t change the fact that the employer will fuck their most hard earned employees outta rightful wages just because the law says that is A OK. •It is not ok•

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u/SlapMyCHOP Jan 15 '22

Okay, I also do that at the grocery store I work at. Do I deserve tips as well despite making full regular minimum wage?

Tips are for people who wait on you, not just anyone serving you.

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u/midgethepuff Jan 15 '22

99% of carry out orders I do I order online and pick up in store. No way in hell I’m tipping for that. Tip for delivery? Sure! Of course! But I’m not tipping them when they didn’t do anything lol.

4

u/andy_1337 Jan 15 '22

I’m walking in the shop, thinking what I want to order, expressing it in words, taking out my wallet, spending money from my budget, carrying out the product and consuming it. Where is my tip?

-5

u/Far_Seesaw_8258 Jan 15 '22

Because they still took your order, checked it over, bagged it, and wrung you up. They still waited on you dipshit. I don’t fucking care how against tipping you are. Not doing it and continuing to eat out is ONLY HURTING THE WAITERS Jfc

4

u/ReflectStratos Jan 15 '22

They did the bare minimum expected of their job. Bravo. How much should I tip the Taco Bell worker for literally pressing a button on a terminal and bringing my food over from the cooks (who do all the real work btw)? 20%? 30%?

I’ll also tip more if they’re a white woman and tip less if they’re a black woman. This isn’t me being racist, this is what the practice of tipping results in. https://ecommons.cornell.edu/handle/1813/71558

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u/-DaddyDarkLord- Jan 15 '22 edited Jan 15 '22

Servers are the one busting their ass for your carryout if you didn't know. And they have to leave their tables to do this for you.

Edit: feed me downvotes you're still wrong.

15

u/k717171 Jan 15 '22

Dear America: You're not "The World"

1

u/seamussor Jan 16 '22

Don't let the righties hear you say that.

-9

u/Pironious Communist Jan 15 '22

Hi, I'm Australian. go fuck yourself :)

9

u/dankchristianmemer7 Jan 15 '22

How did an Australian communist become such a simp for American cultural imperialism

-4

u/Pironious Communist Jan 15 '22

You're a fucking idiot if you think that's what this is.

2

u/k717171 Jan 15 '22

Then you should know better

-6

u/Pironious Communist Jan 15 '22

Damn, wish I was an expert at dismantling oppressive systems quickly and easily by screwing the workers first like you are.

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u/kuribosshoe0 Jan 15 '22

a world where people large scale stop tipping

This is commonly known as the developed world.

6

u/Cute-ologist Jan 15 '22

just because the rest of the world didnt get into this tipping bullshit doesn't mean it's easy to get out of. you act as if americans are silly for having to play into the bullshit system we're stuck under.

4

u/dankchristianmemer7 Jan 15 '22

Participating in tipping under a global US hegemony makes it more likely that I'll be adopted internationally to the detriment of more workers

5

u/Salamanda109 Jan 15 '22

You mean the whole world isn't America? Impossible.

4

u/nujuat Jan 15 '22

I think you mean a country, not a world. In Australia, tipping isn't a thing but everything costs more instead.

-2

u/Pironious Communist Jan 15 '22

No, I mean a world, that's why I said a world. I often say the things I mean. I too am Australian, but I understand that tipping culture is deeply ingrained in the US and a few people refusing to tip anymore won't do anything except hurt workers.

2

u/[deleted] Jan 15 '22

Or waiters/waitresses could stop working for employers that utilize tips? But they won’t because they prefer the tipping system to an hourly wage. No one is forced to be a waiter/waitress.

12

u/SkyrimElf Jan 15 '22

This is true, every waiter/waitress I’ve known goes on about how much they make with tips and none of it is taxed

6

u/Cathercy Jan 15 '22

and none of it is taxed

Well that's certainly not true, they're just not declaring it, which is tax fraud lol

1

u/constable_barley Jan 15 '22

And what's wrong with that? I've been there, taking shit tips and not declaring them because you don't want to get taxed for most of it to go to things that don't make your life better in any way. Seems reasonable to me

2

u/Cathercy Jan 15 '22

You can do whatever you want, just know that it is illegal. I don't blame you one bit, but the IRS will if somehow they find out. To be fair, I don't know how likely it is that they will find out, unless someone specifically reports you or something.

1

u/DillyB04 Jan 15 '22

Sorry to burst your bubble but you are getting taxed on undeclared tips. The gov assumes you're getting at least an 8% tip, and they tax you on it whether you receive that 8% or not. This is the gov's way of getting paid for under the table tips.

So for all of you not tipping in some twisted sense of solidarity with the workers, just remember you're actually making them pay for the privilege to literally serve you.

-2

u/SirDerpingtonV Jan 15 '22

Employees aren’t going to come to work just to lose money on transport to and from work. Stopping tipping will be a short term bite for long term gain.

32

u/[deleted] Jan 15 '22

I don’t think that’s exactly right, because I don’t think employers would start paying waitstaff a living wage if tips dried up. The law is what has to change.

16

u/AgentArticuno Jan 15 '22

The idealistic version of this is that everyone on Earth stops tipping all at once, then servers all quit at once shortly after, then the entire restaurant industry collapses and never returns. Unfortunately, in real life, people will always be desperate enough to work for pennies, and owners will always pay workers the absolute bare minimum. The only way anything can change is total ecological collapse leading to human extinction.

1

u/haxcess Jan 15 '22

SUBSCRIBE

1

u/dankchristianmemer7 Jan 15 '22

You act like tipping like Americans is standard in the rest of the planet

2

u/TroutCuck Jan 15 '22

People would quit and push them to paying more. Laws kinda work, but I'm not a fan. It gives companies a bare minimum to work from.

I moved from a state with high minimum wage and required breaks to one with neither. My jobs used to be minimum wage with the mandated breaks. Here in 3 jobs they've been more than what I got there even though not legally required.

1

u/Lumpy-Fill Jan 15 '22

It may not be liveable, but employers are required to make up the difference if tiped employees wages do not equal minimum wage.

1

u/RusstyDog Jan 15 '22

They would if all their servers quit and no one would work for them unless they payed a living wage. Unionize.

19

u/master0fcats Jan 15 '22

More like servers need to organize to stop working for tips. People organizing en masse to stop tipping is still bullshit and does absolutely nothing to foster solidarity with the people they are trying to "help."

13

u/AgentArticuno Jan 15 '22

This never happens. A minority of servers, typically ones that fit the conventional mold of "attractive white woman", make bank due to the "hot girl tax".

14

u/-SmashingSunflowers- Jan 15 '22

Yep I see servers more than anyone screeching to not get rid of the tip system.

4

u/dankchristianmemer7 Jan 15 '22

Yeah, I have no sympathy for them. If you want the risk of being paid nothing for the possible reward of receiving a much larger fee, then you're just gonna have to take the hit when I don't pay you.

You either want a decent standard wage so you don't have to worry about tips, or you want to worry about tips. You can't have it both ways.

8

u/AgentArticuno Jan 15 '22

Restaurant servers probably have the least amount of class solidarity within a single occupation.

5

u/master0fcats Jan 15 '22

Ignoring the grossness of your comment, there are plenty of other reasons people like to work for tips that we need to deal with before getting rid of a tipping system, like income requirements for healthcare and other programs. If you want to protest tipping, don't use services where the person whose labor you are relying on requires a tip.

8

u/SirDerpingtonV Jan 15 '22

Gross as it may be, there are plenty of studies that show young white women make the most from tips and black women make the least.

3

u/dankchristianmemer7 Jan 15 '22

Lol I like this angle. It really does make it clear how irredeemable the practice is

1

u/master0fcats Jan 15 '22

Oh yeah I believe that 100%. But for whatever reason this person is focusing on their resentment for the so called "hot girl tax" as a reason to not tip rather than any of the other systemic issues I brought up regarding the tipping system.

7

u/SirDerpingtonV Jan 15 '22

Honestly the best solution is going to be a mass avoidance of any place that relies on tipping. Yes, it will hurt in the short term, but the long term goal should be proper wages for workers.

We didn’t get the 5 day work week or end child labour without a lot of pain. The sacrifices we make will make the world better for future generations, and unlike the baby boomers, I think young Gen X, Millennials, and Zoomers are more able to do this.

So yeah, I’m ultimately agreeing to the post you made that I initially responded to.

2

u/master0fcats Jan 15 '22

Right. As someone who works for tips, I think about this all the time and it's terrifying because I have my own circumstances that basically necessitate that I work a job with a tipped wage. I just think there's a lot about the service industry -tipped or otherwise- that people don't understand unless they've worked in it for a long time. I mean, we're currently seeing what, 6 Starbucks union petitions in motion? People are silly to think any mass labor movement in the United States will come from anywhere but that sector of workers, IMO.

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u/AgentArticuno Jan 15 '22

If my comment is gross, then what about the phenomenon of middle-aged men using 3-4 figure tips to seduce young, conventionally attractive waitresses that creates the situation?

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u/master0fcats Jan 15 '22

I'm absolutely sure the women you are talking about would love to make a living wage without being leered at and pawed at by gross men while they're just trying to do their normal ass job. If that's the type of work they prefer, trust me, they aren't working at a fucking Applebees or something like the majority of us.

2

u/AgentArticuno Jan 15 '22

I'm sure you're right, but nothing can be done about it. Being a server in a restaurant doesn't exactly lend itself to class solidarity. It's so competitive.

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u/master0fcats Jan 15 '22

I dunno man, working with the asshole public in an industry with no health insurance, no paid sick leave, no paid vacations, no paid time off whatsoever, rampant sexual assault and harrassment, a massive level of alcoholism and drug abuse, shitty hours, and the competitiveness itself that management abuses are all things that lend to class solidarity. I saw in your other comments that you're in Canada where people get a wage plus tips. I'm sure that type of competitiveness would hamper solidarity. But in the U.S where we're all at the mercy of the customer, it creates a VERY different situation.

1

u/dankchristianmemer7 Jan 15 '22

The arguments against you are basically:

"Wow thats terrible but let's keep the status quo"

0

u/SlapMyCHOP Jan 15 '22

Your definition of a living wage and the actual definition if a living wage are different. There is no way those servers would be making that much without those tips.

Every server I talk to wants to keep tips around. Because they make way more than without it.

1

u/master0fcats Jan 15 '22

I don't really understand what point you're trying to make. Every server makes more with tips than without them because they don't get paid without them. Where I live, servers average like $20/hour. That to me is a reasonable living wage.

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u/dankchristianmemer7 Jan 15 '22

Said as if you don't live a society where this is impossible.

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u/OkPotato9928 Jan 15 '22

I’ve got an idea. If you have such a problem with it, how about YOU stop going out to eat. Easy.

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u/dankchristianmemer7 Jan 15 '22

Have you considered that someone could already be boycotting the system and still have an opinion about it and want it to change so that they no longer need to boycott?

3

u/directorschultz Jan 15 '22

Another beast needs to eat the chicken and it’s egg. The workers have to say no to low wages and tips. Opt out!

3

u/redskea Jan 15 '22

We need to force a mandate stating the business must pay minimum wage

2

u/nobird36 Jan 15 '22

You are ignoring the actual reason. That the laws allow for paying tipped employees significantly less than the minimum wage.

2

u/Syrdon Jan 15 '22

Raise the minimum wage. Unionize staff and bam right to work to help that effort. While we’re banning things, just ban tipping entirely.

Plenty of ways to not make it a chicken and egg problem, once you remember that there’s context and the problem doesn’t exist in a vacuum.

2

u/ginger-snap_tracks Jan 15 '22

The answer is to stop eating inside the restaurant. Stop using the waitstaff and eat at home. Get takeout and serve yourself. You don't want to tip? Don't. But don't cost that server the tip they'd have gotten if you weren't there.

3

u/EverlastingEmus Jan 15 '22

How are you going to explain that to the poor bastard who actually lost money serving you for 2 hours? (Servers have to pay a percentage of their sales to other staff whether they receive a tip or not, varying from 4-10%, so a zero tip on a 200 dollar check could mean they have to pay 10-20 dollars and then pay taxes on a 10% tip they didn’t get as many restaurants won’t believe you got stiffed for tax purposes, this has happened to me)

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u/SirDerpingtonV Jan 15 '22

If staff are losing money by working, they won’t be working there much longer 🤷🏾‍♂️

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u/AgentArticuno Jan 15 '22

I have no idea. I guess there's nothing anyone can do but uphold the status quo until climate change kills us all. The system is designed perfectly to keep the status quo forever.

7

u/EverlastingEmus Jan 15 '22

There are restaurants who post it in the doorway that tipping is not allowed and that employees are paid a living wage, just eat there

8

u/AgentArticuno Jan 15 '22

In Canada, there is no "tipped minimum wage", waiters all get paid the full minimum wage here. Tipping is still seen as mandatory here, so it's actually workers in untipped positions that are getting shafted in Canada.

4

u/MidNightMare5998 Jan 15 '22

This is also true in a couple of US states, like Minnesota where I live and I believe California as well.

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u/geeky_username Jan 15 '22

And yet California still has tipping.

A few years back San Francisco added a surcharge that gave restaurant workers healthcare, yet there was still tipping.

Now places are adding "living wage surcharges". Which are also a percentage of the bill. Like isn't that the point of prices on the menu? To pay wages?

Just raise your prices. But no. They'll tell you it's a $10 menu item but the fine print on the back of the menu (or not printed at all) says there's a "living wage surcharge". So now your $10 item has 10% sales tax, 15-20% "expected" tip, and another 1-4% living wage bullshit charge. Everything on the menu is 30%+ more expensive than advertised.

4

u/EverlastingEmus Jan 15 '22

I said a living wage, not a minimum wage, there’s. Pretty big difference

1

u/AgentArticuno Jan 15 '22

Fair enough, sadly the places you mentioned don't exist in my town or anywhere I know about.

1

u/LuxAgaetes Jan 15 '22 edited Jan 15 '22

This is on a province by province basis. Idk where you're from, but in Ontario servers were only brought up to parity at the beginning of this calendar year. Before January, they were making several dollars less than full minimum wage, as you called it.

Granted, it's much better than what some states south of the border pay, but that's a considerably low bar.

3

u/grte Jan 15 '22 edited Feb 06 '22

Within the current system you would fix it via legislation. Remove the tipped minimum wage for waitstaff and then boost the minimum wage so both waitstaff and kitchen staff can afford to live decent lives. Once this happens tipping culture should dry up or at least atrophy as people will feel significantly less compelled to tip people making $20-$25 an hour than $2.50 an hour.

That said, the current system sucks so that's only a bandaid.

2

u/AgentArticuno Jan 15 '22

Elected officials seem lofty and untouchable these days. I don't think government should be like that.

1

u/SlapMyCHOP Jan 15 '22

That sounds like something that needs to be legislated away.

1

u/irlharvey Jan 15 '22

you can’t let broke servers making less than minimum wage be your collateral

2

u/AgentArticuno Jan 15 '22

I could slip the server some communist or trade unionist propaganda with their tip next time I eat out. Other than convincing hundreds of thousands of waitstaff to unionize or open their own worker co-op restaurants, I don't know what the solution could possibly be.

2

u/dankchristianmemer7 Jan 15 '22

Participating in tipping under a global US hegemony makes it more likely that I'll be adopted internationally to the detriment of even more broke workers

1

u/irlharvey Jan 15 '22

then don't go out to eat. i'm serious.

you can have plenty of other nice things with your $80 without either directly exploiting the person working for you or enabling that exploitation.

and also, no it doesn't? has this ever happened?

1

u/dankchristianmemer7 Jan 15 '22

I don't go out to eat. Is that that crazy an idea?

1

u/irlharvey Jan 15 '22

good then :)

0

u/julioarod Jan 15 '22

Not tipping only harms the workers, not the owner.

6

u/TerraOrdinem Jan 15 '22

The only choice, it seems, is abstaining from businesses where you're expected to tip.

1

u/thecurveq Jan 15 '22

It’s not a chicken or egg question. Employers should pay a fair wage. That’s it.

1

u/-DaddyDarkLord- Jan 15 '22

Are you convincing yourself that the reason tips exist is because servers are tipped well and that if you stopped tipping well all the sudden wages go up? Do you hear yourself? This subreddit man.

3

u/dankchristianmemer7 Jan 15 '22

Good praxis is just not going out to these places ig

5

u/SecretBerries Jan 15 '22

Or waiters can find other jobs and demand a wage that doesn’t rely on tips

13

u/Ser_VimesGoT Jan 15 '22

Fuck that it's not my responsibility to pay someone's wages. I'm already paying like 5% of my own monthly wage for a rare meal out, I don't want to have to spend even more money to make sure someone else gets it fair. I wish I could be on a position to tip but I'm not. People on shit wages being expected to tip people on shit wages? Fuck that.

-13

u/[deleted] Jan 15 '22

If you can’t afford to tip you can’t afford to go to a restaurant! Sorry sweaty

7

u/Reulorics Jan 15 '22

Ok cool lol. Are you going to stop them then?

6

u/modsrworthless Jan 15 '22

If you can't afford to pay your workers you can't afford to run a business! Sorry sweaty

3

u/SecretBerries Jan 15 '22

If you can’t afford to rely on tips, you can’t afford working at a restaurant. It’s as simple as that. No one else should be expected to tip someone else’s employee. And if the employee doesn’t like it, then they should find jobs with actual wages. Otherwise nothing will change.

12

u/Ser_VimesGoT Jan 15 '22

Oh so lesser off people can't have nice things every now and then? Restaurants are only for people who can afford to overspend, gotcha! Are you the type of person to say "don't give money to those refugees, they've all got iPhones!"?

I'll say it again because there's a lot of you that fail to grasp it. It is not the customers responsibility to subsidise the employees wages.

The US has created a moronic system and you've guilt tripped yourselves into staying a slave to it. So not only are businesses undercutting their staff but you're also paywalling lesser off folk too by saying if you can't afford to overpay you don't get the nice thing. Nice.

No wonder the US is the only developed country in the world without universal healthcare. You're so fucking backwards.

-8

u/[deleted] Jan 15 '22

okay mr working class hero! Consider making this argument to a server the next time you go to a restaurant! I am sure they will thank you for your convictions

8

u/Parad0xurus Jan 15 '22

You don't have much of an argument here. People are allowed to spend however they like and the argument "don't go out to eat if you cant afford to tip" is such a cancer statement. Employers should be held accountable and not the customers. How hard of a concept is that to you

8

u/__ButtFuqqer3000__ Jan 15 '22

Naw dog. I’m not paying your wage.

Take that shit up with your boss. What I can and can’t afford is my own business, not yours. I can be on my last penny and I still have a right to my meal.

Take it up with your boss. I’m not tipping

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u/[deleted] Jan 15 '22

So then don’t expect solidarity from me. Fuck you and your struggle.

5

u/[deleted] Jan 15 '22

Unionize mate. Don't blame the customers, blame your employer who prefers exploiting you rather than paying you a livable wage that doesn't make you beg people for their generosity

-2

u/[deleted] Jan 15 '22

Don't expect food without my taint in it either

3

u/SecretBerries Jan 15 '22

That’s disgusting. If you need a living wage, work a job that gives you a living wage.

1

u/[deleted] Jan 15 '22

Are you really happy having to beg for generosity instead of being treated as a human being by your boss ?

1

u/[deleted] Jan 15 '22

Why do you frequent businesses that abuse their employees?

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u/__ButtFuqqer3000__ Jan 15 '22

Ok then. It goes on regardless

1

u/Kevakazi Jan 15 '22

What a backwards way of thinking.

-15

u/ApplicationNo6508 Jan 15 '22

So you’re just an asshole then. Cool.

12

u/Ser_VimesGoT Jan 15 '22

Yeah I'm an asshole because my single income household can't afford to subsidise someone elses wages. Get the fuck outta here. Luckily I don't live in the US so I don't need to worry about it. So no, I'm not an asshole over here for not tipping.

-5

u/ApplicationNo6508 Jan 15 '22

Then why chime-in on a conversation that was explicitly about the perils of tipping culture in the US?

15

u/[deleted] Jan 15 '22

[deleted]

-11

u/[deleted] Jan 15 '22

Sounds like you’re too poor to eat out

2

u/Atlantiquarian Jan 15 '22

Sounds like you’re too poor to eat out

If they can afford the list price, they're fine :)

It's not their responsibility to offer a voluntary tip. If a business can't pay its employees, it shouldn't exist.

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u/SlapMyCHOP Jan 15 '22

Lets put this simply so your small brain can understand:

TIPS. ARE. NOT. MANDATORY.

If you want a higher guaranteed wage, take it up with your boss. Otherwise, you take the tippers with the non-tippers.

-1

u/[deleted] Jan 15 '22

Or just spit (and do other things) in your food if you ever come back

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u/withoutamartyr Jan 15 '22 edited Jan 15 '22

If you're benefitting materially from the exploitation and the poverty wages, then there is a bit of an obligation towards solidarity. "I understand you're being paid minimum wage and are being exploited by your boss, but I am going to benefit from that exploited labor and make it worse" is not a position of solidarity.

"I cant afford it" is a perfectly fine reason on it's own. Making it a moral stance about how it's not your responsibility to be concerned about the material conditions of the workers who's labor you rely on isnt even a full step away from an anti-worker position. If you don't want to or can't afford to tip, don't go to places where that's a part of the wage model. Full stop.

Tipping culture is toxic. Not tipping only hurts the exploited worker. Everyone in the US could share this position with you, and it wouldn't fix the problem.

I appreciate your stance, and I'm not here to say it's a bad or vile one, but anti tipping culture discussions dovetail very cleanly into anti-worker discussions, and that's not a sustainable position for working class people to take against each other. It's worth being a little more nuanced to the impact this discussion has.

-2

u/ApplicationNo6508 Jan 15 '22

So you’re wrong, too—irrespective of whether you’re from US or not.

0

u/Ser_VimesGoT Jan 15 '22

Because it wasn't explicitly about that and the sentiment is worth sharing. It's a wider topic of discussion than you dictate and plenty comments reflect that.

2

u/ApplicationNo6508 Jan 15 '22

Except this segment of conversation was explicitly about “American tipping culture”.

1

u/[deleted] Jan 15 '22

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u/Sedgehammer12 Jan 15 '22

Restaurants aren’t going to pay a living wage because “they get enough from tips”. The whole system just needs a massive overhaul, starting with a liveable minimum wage

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u/Zepidia Jan 15 '22

its not though, you are being brainwashed. im sorry.

1

u/EverlastingEmus Jan 15 '22

Your slaying that not tipping is not anti worker? Or am I not following this thread. Bc as someone who worked in service for years, I definitely felt it was anti me when I got stiffed

7

u/Zepidia Jan 15 '22

waiters are paid the same wage as other similar jobs in most of the world. is antiwork soley a US sub?

-6

u/EverlastingEmus Jan 15 '22

Is it a no USA allowed sub? Have a little awareness.

12

u/Zepidia Jan 15 '22

enjoy tipping culture i guess, will never change with the way yall think

2

u/geeky_username Jan 15 '22

The ones that get tips love it.

If they work at a busy place or a high-end restaurant they'll bring home several hundred dollars cash on top of their base wages.

Some table ordered a few things from the bar or a pricy bottle of wine and tipping culture says you now pay a extra percentage for that bottle to be brought to your table and sit there pouring it yourself. But that's big money for the server for almost no extra effort

5

u/Onironius Jan 15 '22

Your boss is the one stiffing you, and the politicians who allowed server wages to be literal garbage.

-1

u/EverlastingEmus Jan 15 '22

Well… it’s been years since I was a server. But I still defend them and spread info to help them. Gotta pay it forward

-5

u/awotherspoon Jan 15 '22

Worst praxis: To go to a restaurant and not tip the server.

Neutral praxis: not patronizing establishments that participate in tipping culture

Best praxis: tip your servers generously and encourage them to unionize

6

u/Zepidia Jan 15 '22

sorry, i live in canada where wait staff are actually paid the same minimum wage as other jobs.

2

u/Onironius Jan 15 '22

In most provinces. I think Ontario only recently ended the practice of paying servers basically nothing.

2

u/SlapMyCHOP Jan 15 '22

My understanding is that they were paid that "nothing" if the tips made up for it and put them above the min wage.

2

u/awotherspoon Jan 15 '22

In practice, no restaurant manager follows that aspect of the law

1

u/SlapMyCHOP Jan 15 '22

Then the employees need to stand up for themselves and get their pay.

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u/kuribosshoe0 Jan 15 '22 edited Jan 15 '22

I didn’t tell anyone not to tip, that issue is tangential to my point. I’m simply saying that directing your outrage at the customer isn’t going to solve the real problem. There will always be non-tippers; tipping is a courtesy system that is inherently unreliable. But there needn’t always be outdated and unfair labour standards that require tipping to make up the difference. That’s something that can be changed with the right pressure and support. That’s where the outrage should be directed.

2

u/mondrianna Jan 15 '22

I think there can be more nuance to it than it being “just antiworker bad praxis.” There are people who live in food deserts, and homeless people who can’t afford to tip every single time they eat out. They aren’t engaging in “bad praxis” when trying to survive the best they can.

ETA: That being said, if you can afford to tip and choose not to, that’s bad praxis. If you can’t, don’t let people tell you you’re too poor to enjoy moderate luxury.

2

u/ApplicationNo6508 Jan 15 '22

You’re citing very fringe cases that aren’t really relevant to the discussion.

0

u/jadondrew Jan 15 '22

Exactly. If you are not willing to tip for the service, do not use the service. The argument that tipping shouldn’t even be necessary is valid, but not tipping doesn’t go towards fixing that broken system, it only makes things harder for workers that already have it rough.

-2

u/crunchytech413 Jan 15 '22

Exactly. If you go to a restaurant with wait staff then you know tipping is the only way those workers get paid. So if you stiff them you are just being greedy and anti-worker.

0

u/[deleted] Jan 15 '22

It they don’t make minimum wage in tips by law the employer is required to pay the minimum wage… so you’re wrong

-1

u/RusstyDog Jan 15 '22

Employers will never feel pressure to pay up if we keep keep tipping.

If tips go away employers will have to raise wages to keep staff.

0

u/[deleted] Jan 15 '22

I dislike that attitude, im struggling too, why cant i enjoy getting a meal out just because someone is getting fucked over by their employer? Stop shaming customers.

1

u/ApplicationNo6508 Jan 15 '22

If you get rid of customary tips (which I’m in favor of, btw), you’re only going to see prices increase on menu items.

So, if you’re going out to eat right now, and not tipping, you’re just exploiting the system as it currently stands, for your own benefit, at the expense of the service industry worker. That’s what you’re “enjoying”, and it’s shitty.

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u/sister_sister_ SocDem Jan 15 '22

Not only American. Unfortunately this also exists in Mexico (although 10% is the norm here). Right now there's been a discussion in r/mexico about this exact same issue of underpaid workers vs customers. And of course, owner's responsibility is rarely part of the conversation.

4

u/zph0eniz Jan 15 '22

I worked in restaurant for few years.

I hate tip culture w a passion

Just feels wrong

We should do our best just because we want to be of good service. Do a good job. Not for a tip.

Bosses pushed me to give "free" cheap stuff then ask for tips.

Pushing to confront them saying they didn't tip.

Scared to upset shitty customers.

Higher Tip percentages to older employees.

Way to use it as avoiding some taxes

It justs a system that puts blame on us, benefits higher ups, and rewards crappy practices.

I know it's not possible for all, but we should fight back. It's natural for lots of fail when changes happen. But so does good change. There's been good change stories here where service industry makes changes without tips. Which leads to surprise...even better quality service and success.

Confrontation and change is scary...but it's needed. We can complain all we want but if we don't do much about it in end saying it's impossible...then that's it.

1

u/[deleted] Jan 15 '22

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1

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1

u/____DEADPOOL_______ Life doesn't have to be this way. Jan 15 '22

They expect you to partner up with them in the business when all people want is a job.

1

u/Peterdubh Jan 15 '22

It needs to be enforced by law. If one place ups their price to pay service staff a proper wage customers will call it expensive and go elsewhere.

1

u/Mr_Yuker Jan 15 '22

Not sure if you've seen the recent trend but I work for a restaurant pos company and this new "cash discount" idea shifts all the processing charges to the customer. It's a trick to make you think you pay less if you use cash but in reality they just increase the credit card payment type. It's pretty shitty honestly.

1

u/OCskywalker Jan 15 '22

Go ahead and ask an American server or bartender if they’d prefer an hourly wage to gratuity.

1

u/adamw247 Jan 15 '22

No the problem lies with someone going out and spending $77 for food when they consider themselves broke and not having enough to tip a server that’s the problem

1

u/Abstract__Nonsense Jan 15 '22

That’s half the problem here, the other half is that you don’t go out for a $78 table service meal if you can’t afford a few dollars for a tip. Customer sucks, boss sucks.

1

u/Mystic_Beem Jan 15 '22

“America” favors businesses and businesses owners just the same, however - not their workers

1

u/[deleted] Jan 15 '22

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1

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1

u/baby-samdwich Jan 15 '22

It's about a professional being allowed to earn as much money per their level of service and how they elevate the dining experience.

Great servers want to be tipped.

Lousy or just adequate servers generally don't and frankly shouldn't be servers. At least not in fine cuisine.

Don't dress up personal cheapness as a proletarian or anti-capitalist cause.

One observation from a gen-Xer:
Millennials are obsessed with the "experience" The value of the experience. Which I respect. But they don't want to reward those who go out of their way to provide said experience. And I get that they grew up on Napster and Pirate Bay and everything free being online amd that they're oh-so-broke. But those people making sure your avocado toast and IPA are served the way you like it deserves a decent reward. Especially when it's the way it is in US culture. Not tipping as a protest is the height of douchery.

-2

u/Mrchristopherrr Jan 15 '22

Tipping allows the customer to skip the owners and managers and directly pay the other worker. If owners just raised prices they’d most likely raise prices 20% and give workers 5%. Tipping gives it all to them.

2

u/geeky_username Jan 15 '22

Raising the prices let's consumers make informed decisions about what they are buying.

If employees want a bigger share, they should take it up with their boss

-2

u/[deleted] Jan 15 '22

Well duh everyone knows this. And it’s not going to change!:)

-2

u/FrozenMrPotato Jan 15 '22

Does it? You’re basically complaining that you get to see the cost. Companies can go ahead and raised your prices 20-30%. It’s literally the same out of “shifting responsibility from employer to customer”. Seriously what do you think your tips are paying for that a higher wage wouldn’t

-1

u/Soupcan_Sam_ Jan 15 '22

I completely agree with you, the only problem is that the cost of food will go up in order to let the business pay the waiter a living wage and keep the same profit margin. Instead of paying the waiter directly, you pay the restaurant the extra amount that you were going to tip

2

u/kuribosshoe0 Jan 15 '22

That isn’t a problem, the cost to consumers is the same either way. It just means waiters have a living wage instead of unpredictable tips as per OP.

The point isn’t to save the consumer money, or even to cost the business money. It’s to pay the worker properly.