r/antiwork Jan 14 '22 Silver 5 Helpful 16 Wholesome 10

So sorry, I'm broke so I can only pay you $77 for my food. You were great though.

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646

u/The_Stav Jan 15 '22 edited Jan 15 '22 I'll Drink to That

Idk much because I'm from the UK, but is this really a massive issue for someone who's already broke but wanted to treat themselves? I feel like the anger should be directed at tipping culture and the companies that underpay their workers rather than the consumers who are just currently using the system as intended?

Just feels weird to be mad at someone who's broke for not paying more than the worth of their meal, y'know?

EDIT: For the people saying "Fuck the customer, they're basically stealing from the server and making them do unpaid labour!"

They're not the ones stealing from the server, the companies are. It should be the company compensating the labour of the workers, not the customers.

30

u/VenusAmari Jan 15 '22

As an American who tips well and have worked in a restaurant in the past, I agree.

I really hate these kinds of posts because the blame is not being directed where it should be and instead shaming someone for being poor. And often times the one doing the shaming (the waiter) is paid more than the person who couldn't afford to tip and that's a big reason waiters often don't want to organize to end tipping. They see what the cashiers at McDonald's are making and wisely want more than that.

Instead of these posts intended to turn worker against worker, we should be shaming the service industry for paying everyone non-livable wages.

313

u/Joga212 Jan 15 '22

As a fellow Brit I agree.

This subreddit never fails to shock me when they always continuously get mad at the customer, rather than the employer. It defeats the whole purpose of the subreddit.

I genuinely think they all secretly deep down want the tipping culture to stay because it more or less benefits everyone bar the customer.

37

u/jacksonmills Jan 15 '22 edited Jan 15 '22 Silver

Yes, it does benefit mostly everyone but the customer, but in the end, it ends up hurting the profession as a whole.

My sister works in food service; she's been a waitress, bartender, bar manager, and restaurant manager.

The real appeal of tipping culture for people who are servers is, if you are good at it and find the right job, you can make several hundred dollars in a night on top of your "actual" wages, in cash, that you take home that night.

When my sister went from waitress to bar/restaurant manager, she actually liked it less because while she was pulling in more money over the entire year, her employees were able to work less (4 shifts a week) and make about 80% of her pay (working 6 days a week).

Granted, she had benefits, but mostly just health insurance (just medical + dental, no 401k/short term disability/or even vision). After paying that out, she was barely making more money than a server. Also, she wasn't getting money every day. She only got it at the end of every two weeks.

Eventually she just went back to being a server because she had the pull/seniority at the restaurant to work the "good nights" (Th/Fri/Sat/Sun, sometimes Monday during football season), never cared about having health insurance, and could work four days a week instead of six. Also, always having cash on hand felt a lot better.

On extremely good days, especially during Christmas/NYE/Holidays/the peak of summer, she'd make even more money than she would during the normal work year, so she could work even less and still end up saving money/making more money than she did during the "regular" times.

The employer benefits because they don't have to pay their staff anything more than a few dollars an hour - the server benefits because in a good situation, they can make hundreds of dollars a day, and they can work a little less than normal.

In the end everyone deserves a living wage, and to not work themselves to death. I firmly believe in a 4 day week/32 hour work week. But the system as it exists, ends up hurting people who don't directly benefit from it. Not only the customer, but it ends up creating dynamics in the restaurant industry that make it harder for restaurants to succeed. If you have a few bad weeks, you could see half your trained staff walk because they are no longer making the money they expect from tips. People who work at restaurants that aren't doing well or don't have the political capital to get good shifts at ones that are end up making shitty wages and struggle.

And of course, if you get a string of Karens/Kens, you could see jack shit for a night and end up getting fired because a lot of employers look at tip amount as a performance report.

It doesn't help the whole. In the end, we should have a fair, livable working wage for every industry; not just food service, but also agriculture (which is another industry, that for some fucking stupid reason, is allowed to pay far less than other businesses)

1

u/RockyHorrorGoldfinch Jan 15 '22

As a Brit, I'm curious whether tips have to be declared when doing tax returns?

65

u/sortaangrypeanut Jan 15 '22

As an American, two things can be true:

  • Tipping culture is absolutely horrible here. The fact that a waiter has to rely on tips to even barely scrape by is horrible. Employers should be held responsible for living wages, not the customer, and the customer should not have to give more than their bill says

  • Right now, waiters are legally paid less than minimum wage due to the assumption that they make up to a minimum wage with tips factored in. They depend on tips to scrape by. As it is right now, when you pay for food at a restaurant, you are only paying for the cooks, the bosses, and partially for the waitress's services. A tip is what pays for the rest of its services, so you should tip until it changes

The way tipping culture sucks doesn't change the fact that a waiter needs them to pay rent. You're only hurting your waiter when you don't tip. I don't know this person's circumstances, and I won't assume anything off a $77 order. I assume they're not homeless cuz they're paying with a card. So I think that, even if you're broke and get to treat yourself once a year, you should factor at least like idk $5 into what you're going to spend as a tip.

It's insulting to me that you think we want tipping culture to stay. We don't want it to stay, but individuals choosing to not tip isn't "sticking it to the man". It's not changing anything. If they can afford to tip and they don't, knowing that this is how waiters have to make a living, they're just a dick, man.

24

u/mteej Jan 15 '22

what i don't understand is how i, as the customer, becomes responsible for the restaurants overheads? like shouldn't that be a fixed cost of running a business? why is that a cost customers absorb? these are genuine questions because i just don't understand

6

u/sortaangrypeanut Jan 15 '22

It sucks, and it's not right. Tipping culture needs to end, waiters need to unionize and strike, and it needs to change. The answers to your questions are because bosses are greedy. They want to make as much money in their wallets as possible. They hate minimum wage workers and think "hey, these minimum wage workers are technically making more than minimum wage due to a completely optional custom! We should account for that by allowing them to be paid as low as 50% of minimum wage! Unskilled workers don't deserve to make that much!"

10

u/TroutCuck Jan 15 '22

Do waiters want it to change? All the ones I've known make significantly better money than me in my area on average.

1

u/moldy_minge Jan 15 '22

They do not in my town, or the surrounding towns. Larger cities have the possibility to make good money serving. I don't have any numbers but I'm sure if you factor in servers that work in smaller communities it would bring the average income of a server down to regular minimum wage.

3

u/TroutCuck Jan 15 '22

It would be a bit higher than minimum wage because minimum wage is still the minimum after tips. Employer does have to make up the difference if that happens.

(Not counting cases of wage theft because they don't really impact discussion of the law when they're not following it anyway)

6

u/mteej Jan 15 '22

these companies are really taking advantage of the poverty cycle so many people find themselves in

0

u/microslasher Jan 15 '22

If you don't support the idea as the customer making up the change, then should you just stop going to restaurants that support tipping thereby not contributing to the employer screwing over the employee or do you continue to go to these restaurants that support tipping and just not tip screwing over the employee?

3

u/byram Jan 15 '22

Can't believe this is downvoted - this is the only choice the consumer has that directly impacts the business owner.

4

u/fanatic1123 Jan 15 '22

It should but that's not how it works and not tipping doesn't make you a hero rebel

2

u/sbNXBbcUaDQfHLVUeyLx Jan 15 '22

The customer absorbs it anyway. If they start paying all servers a living wage and ban tips, your menu prices will go up and you'll end up paying more overall. The money doesn't just magically appear to increase wages. It gets factored into the cost of the good being sold.

5

u/Far-Phrase-4690 Jan 15 '22

First, servers should be paid a lot more than they currently are however if your hourly wage + tipped wage doesn’t equal the minimum wage, the employer is required to pay the server until their wage is the minimum wage. So servers aren’t paid less than minimum

3

u/Ellie__1 Jan 15 '22

That's the law, yes. In practice, this doesn't happen. Servers are paid less than minimum all the time.

2

u/Far-Phrase-4690 Jan 15 '22

So we should fix that. Because tipping doesn’t stop an employer from taking the tips which happens as well. Many illegal things happen in practice

5

u/Ellie__1 Jan 15 '22

Of course we should fix that, but you should know, if someone doesn't tip a server, it's very unlikely that the restaurant is going to clock that and make up the difference.

-4

u/Far-Phrase-4690 Jan 15 '22

I would argue the server should then take out a loan or use their own money if they have the means to sue the restaurant. But that’s beside the point. An employer can just take tips so what’s the solution here

2

u/Ellie__1 Jan 15 '22

You're right, anything is possible.

The most likely scenario, by far, when you tip a server is that the server gets this money (after tipping out to the hostess and other staff). Employers stealing tips does happen, but it's uncommon.

The most likely scenario, by far, when you don't tip a server is that they don't get anything. Employers reimbursing servers that fall below the minimum might happen, but it's uncommon.

-1

u/Far-Phrase-4690 Jan 15 '22

Do you have stats that show stealing tips is less common than not adding the wage to equal minimum?

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0

u/insertnamehere02 Jan 15 '22

You clearly don't understand how it works. Please exit the argument, as you have no place in this debate. 👋🏻

1

u/DL_ Jan 15 '22

I refuse to believe this. If they don't pay up they face many penalties. And there's a fucking paper trail with paystubs so its easy to prove.

1

u/Ellie__1 Jan 15 '22 edited Jan 15 '22

Okkkk then 🙋🏻‍♀️

Edited to add: where on a paystub do you think tips go?

1

u/DL_ Jan 15 '22

I assume there's a line item called tips or something. What's your point?

0

u/Ellie__1 Jan 15 '22

Tips don't go on paystubs.

0

u/DL_ Jan 15 '22

If they don't then what are they basing the tax deductions and other things off of?

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1

u/sortaangrypeanut Jan 15 '22

This I did not know, actually. Lemme search this up rq. Sorry for my ignorance if you're right

1

u/Far-Phrase-4690 Jan 15 '22

I think it’s in all states in the US but I could be wrong there.

1

u/insertnamehere02 Jan 15 '22

Only in states where they use federal tipped wage. States who use reg minimum wage don't use or need it.

3

u/2012DOOM Jan 15 '22

Just one clarification. If a worker doesn't get paid minimum wage with the low wage + tip, then the employer has to cover it.

A lot of people don't know this and the owners of the businesses take advantage of them not knowing this.

2

u/sortaangrypeanut Jan 15 '22

Yep, I've now learned this. Didn't know this beforehand and I am rethinking my opinion, thank you

1

u/Circus_mind Jan 15 '22

Thank you. I scrolled for way too long to find this comment. Tipping culture is stupid and employers SHOULD pay a living wage.

But you don't change tipping culture by not tipping, and you don't do that to the people in the dirt with you. If we're all fighting for the same thing, then why stiff someone who's also just trying to get by?

I could think of so many other ways to treat myself with $77, and so many other ways to fight against tipping culture.

-4

u/insertnamehere02 Jan 15 '22

This is what irritates me the most when I see the triggered masses flipping out. Not tipping your server isn't going to fix the problem. All it tells me is that they're not anti shitty pay, they just don't want to pay the extra because HOW DARE YOU??

I have zero issues tipping servers if they did a good job, especially since people have gotten so shitty and the job is stressful af. It's a way to fricken show appreciation for them making sure your dining experience was a good one. With the way people react here, it's like ffs, calm the hell down. All the outrage seems to stem from "wah it's not fair to me!" and not really trying to be a fighter of pay equality.

1

u/Aegi Jan 15 '22

No, the US Federal Government makes it so that all servers must be paid minimum wage, but as long as that employee is taking home at least minimum wage divided by the hours they worked, then the employer is only required to pay $2.13 per hour of their take-home pay.

It is illegal for any regular employee in the US to take home less than either the federal, or their state’s minimum wage, whichever is higher.

Lol, I’m going to be a little bit condescending, although this is directed at everybody reading this, not just you the person I’m replying to:

and people wonder why we (as a society) are easily taken advantage of by certain leaders and politicians and celebrities and things like that. When people don’t even understand a law that’s been in place for more than a decade, when you can look it up and read it word for word, it’s no surprise that we get taken to the cleaners when trying to listen to politicians. It’s no wonder we always think that they’re lying or keeping their promises or not.

Obviously we can’t even fucking understand what’s already written down in clear language — how the fuck are we going to understand purposefully obscure language spoken by politicians knowing the difference between what they said and what most people will hear/think?

Also, servers need to do a better job claiming all of their tips as income then, because 100% of the people I’ve been friends with, fucked, dated, been roommates with, etc. have never claimed 100% of all of their tips as income on their taxes each year, so they need to be like the rest of us that actually pay the taxes we owe, and stop acting like the 1% they get mad at by dodging taxes.

Edit: Source: https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/minimum-wage/history since 1996 it has been this way in regards to tipping.

-4

u/Ok_Relative_5180 Jan 15 '22

Exactly everyone sounds stupid complaining about having to tip like thats what it is right now. This is where we're at. So if your broke and still want to treat ur self, maybe u should make something at home instead of eating out, relying on service and then saying well im too broke and tipping shouldn't be a thing anyway like- it IS a thing. So either pay up or move to Europe!! Or eat at home, but save us the shit 🙄 I always tip decent at restaurants and I don't eat at upscale places. I know someone that door dashes frequently and says they cant afford to tip and Ive started to door dash as well and I'm certainly not well off in any way but I'm decent I and make sure I tip at the very least $5 each time (usually more) and if I can't afford to tip at least $5 (cus i certainly would never give 0) then I won't door dash that day, i'll go pick up my food. Or I'll make something at home. Let's act like we have some knowledge of the way things work and not be selfish and stupid. Society really has gone downhill these days

2

u/fanatic1123 Jan 15 '22

Or just be mad at everyone in the wrong? Its not a race to the bottom

5

u/Joga212 Jan 15 '22

The customer isn’t technically wrong though, it’s the employer.

12

u/The_Stav Jan 15 '22

I think the thing for me is that tipping is optional, so you can't blame a customer for effectively using the system as intended, it should be the system itself you focus on right?

9

u/sortaangrypeanut Jan 15 '22

If a customer is intentionally using the system as intended, whilst knowing that this intended system is screwing over workers, thats a dick move

I thought this whole subreddit was about individuals opposing the intended system! How is choosing to follow it in order to hurt a waiter's chances at paying rent helping anybody?

-1

u/Ellie__1 Jan 15 '22

You can focus on the system, and still pay the server for their labor, it you do decide to go out to eat in this system.

4

u/ilikeUni Jan 15 '22

They do want the tipping culture, at least based on quite a few wait staffs who I’ve seen defending it. Just want to provide some relevant info. Currently even though the employer can pay below minimum wage, if the tips plus their pay does not sum up to minimum wage, the employer is supposed to pay the difference. So the wait staff are guaranteed a minimum wage. They often make more than minimum wage through tips, some way more depending on the restaurant. Just imagine getting 20% tip in a medium to high end restaurants. A good night can earn $300-500.

4

u/Anorak27s Jan 15 '22

I genuinely think they all secretly deep down want the tipping culture to stay because it more or less benefits everyone bar the customer.

Not that secretly and not that deep down either, if they didn't like the system they would have changed it already, but most of them are making way more than they would but getting a normal hourly wage.

-2

u/[deleted] Jan 15 '22

[deleted]

2

u/Anorak27s Jan 15 '22

why are you even on this subreddit?

Because this bullshit right here is not what this subreddit is about.

“if you don’t like this about society why do you even participate in said society?”

I don't, I live in a civilized country where people are paid a decent wage.

3

u/jadondrew Jan 15 '22

Recognizing the issues with tipping culture doesn’t exempt you from being an asshole.

People try to spin it that not tipping undermines tipping culture, eventually benefitting the worker. This is just not what’s going to happen. It just makes things harder for workers that are already struggling financially.

This customer absolutely should be shamed for this. Knowing the reality of how shit their pay is, it’s unethical to use these services knowing that you can’t leave a tip. Even knowing how bad the system is, you are leaving them at the mercy of their starvation wages.

2

u/TroutCuck Jan 15 '22

It's like not buying puppies from puppy mills. It would help the puppy, but it funds the mill making more puppies.

-2

u/reflectorvest Jan 15 '22

Tipping can benefit the customer though, especially if you have places you go regularly. Everyone knows which regulars tip well, and staff remember good tippers. I’ve always had a handful of comps at every place I’ve worked and I could use them on my friends/family or I could toss one to a guy who tipped me $20 on a $55 tab last week. The guy who had a $55 tab and tipped nothing, forcing me to pay out of my own pocket for the privilege of serving him because I had to tip out expo and the bar based on sales for the shift and then pay taxes on my expected tip total which included 10% from his check? He will get the absolute bare minimum from me the next time he shows up. Servers have good memories, it’s why a lot of them don’t have to write things down and they can tell you what’s in every dish on the menu.

3

u/ThunderousOrgasm Jan 15 '22

What a ridiculous justification hahah. Toxic as fuck tipping culture.

-2

u/reflectorvest Jan 15 '22

So your server should have to pay for you to eat out if you can’t afford to tip? Because that’s what happens when you don’t tip in America.

3

u/ThunderousOrgasm Jan 15 '22

Ridiculous statement. The server dosnt pay for me.

0

u/reflectorvest Jan 15 '22

Do you understand how tipouts work? If 3% of a server’s sales total for a shift gets pulled from their total tips to go to the expo worker and bartender (which is average and compensates them for the work they do for you while not getting tipped), they still owe them that percentage of the table didn’t tip. So if your bill was $100 and you didn’t tip, your server still has to pay the bar and expo $3. If no one tips the server and their sales are $1000, the server now owes the house $30 for the privilege of working.

1

u/moldy_minge Jan 15 '22

Tipping does shaft the customer, but it screws the wait staff over twice as much. They make half of minimum wage and if the customer decides not to tip, that's literal lost wages for the server. That's where the anger comes in and I agree it's misplaced, however if you plan to eat at an establishment with wait staff you should always factor in a tip.

Its detrimental to the customer and devastating to the server. Tipping culture has to go, it benefits everyone save the customer and the server.

75

u/rockdoc21 Jan 15 '22

From Canada here, don’t get me wrong, I do tip (if the service is shit I tip 0%), but the whole, “if you can’t afford to tip you can’t afford to eat out” thing is bullshit. Prices are prices for a reason, no where am I legally required to tip, nor should I as a consumer have to pick up the slack from employers who don’t pay their employees living wages. Anger should be directed at them, not customers who go out to eat. I’m on the customers side for this one.

6

u/psyfi66 Jan 15 '22

If I don’t come out to eat then you don’t have a job and make even less money. It’s such a stupid mindset to have

1

u/DahmonGrimwolf Jan 15 '22

Just because the system is broken does not give you the right to fuck over the innocent people who are trapped by it. You aren't sticking it to the man, you aren't challenging the status quo. You're hurting innocent people just trying to make a living. If you have 77 dollars to go put to eat you have 5 dollars for a tip

9

u/KingoftheOrdovices Jan 15 '22

You're not entitled to a tip. It's a tip. People who struggle to make ends meet don't owe you anything. They've paid for the food, so what's the problem? The issue is with the employer not paying their waitstaff a real wage.

6

u/DahmonGrimwolf Jan 15 '22

If you go it a place that does not pay it employees a fair wage, you food is subsidized by that worker getting paid less than a fair wage. You can either tip and support abolishing the practice, or refuse to patron all together. Anything else is hypocrisy. People still need to pay rent in the short term, well before a hypothetical long term solution.

9

u/nousabetterworld Jan 15 '22

If you have 77 dollars you have 77 dollars. If the food costs 77 dollars you have enough to eat that food.

2

u/DahmonGrimwolf Jan 15 '22

The. Food. Would. Not. Cost. That. Much. If. The. Worker. Was. Paid. A. Fair. Wage. Your food was cheaper because someone else subsidized it. Its not a hard concept to grasp, where am I losing you all?

4

u/nousabetterworld Jan 15 '22

The food costs as much as the price tag says it does. Also, do you know how much more the food would cost if the workers were paid fairly? A few cents, maybe one or two dollars max. How much do people want to be tipped nowadays? 20%? 30%? On $77 that's $15-$20. No way in hell the same food would cost nearly $100 if the waiters were paid more money lmao.

1

u/zenchemin Jan 15 '22

Because it basically would cost that much. Bigmac index shows that places where people are paid fairly the price doesn't increase as dramatically as American propaganda pundits would have you believe.

21

u/rockdoc21 Jan 15 '22

Yet the issue is, even with your suggested 6.5% tip, I would still be demonized by society as someone fucking over the working class for not tipping enough, but the owner gets off scot-free.

-8

u/DahmonGrimwolf Jan 15 '22

Then refuse to eat there. Actually protest, vote with your wallet. But if you willing and knowingly go to a place that does not pay their staff and refuse to tip you are a hypocrite for supporting the bosses and owners and screwing over their staff.

Americans don't like the tipping system, and we are fighting, but a big part of the problem in customer service is how the bosses and corporations let customers treat employees like shit, and customer demean, insult and fuck over customer service workers constantly, just because they can. The bosses are the problem but so is shitty people being shitty to people who are just teying to get by because they can. You can and should be mad at both.

7

u/Aconite_72 Jan 15 '22 edited Jan 15 '22

Then refuse to eat there.

Pardon me if I’m wrong since I’m not an American, but isn’t the tipping system employed everywhere in the country? So that would basically mean if you refuse to eat in an establishment that uses the tipping system, you either never eat out at all or move to a different country.

Plus, I doubt a single guest not eating there would affect them much financially. If at all. This is the status quo accepted by most Americans.

This is basically like the whole “Do your part for the environment” deal. While massive corporations are dumping plastic into the ocean by bulk, the consumer is expected to save the environment by … using paper straws. Then they’re shamed if they use a teeny plastic straw.

It’s shifting the blame from the employer to the consumer, who has zero choice in the matter. Consumer blaming isn’t the answer.

-2

u/DahmonGrimwolf Jan 15 '22

No, only a large majority of stereotypical "dine in" restaurants. And yes, Individually your purchase means very little. However if a large enough group of consumers demand changes to business practices we can force them to change or die out (boycott). Your environmental take is false equivalence. We need to regulate companies for pollution and tipping, but just because we haven't done it yet doesn't mean you should throw a bag of trash in a river.

2

u/Aconite_72 Jan 15 '22

No, only a large majority of stereotypical "dine in" restaurants.

How big is this large majority ...?

However if a large enough group of consumers demand changes to business practices we can force them to change or die out (boycott).

This is true, but realistically ... don't get me wrong, but the dining industry is absolutely humongous. Short of a few hundreds thousands people, I don't think a boycott movement is going to work at all. Plus, this has already become so ingrained in American culture that I doubt people would care.

We need to regulate companies for pollution and tipping, but just because we haven't done it yet doesn't mean you should throw a bag of trash in a river.

That's not the point I'm making. The point is that you're attacking consumers who have zero say in the matter (and who's also broke) for the companies' and the industry's fault. I think you're attacking the wrong party there.

2

u/DahmonGrimwolf Jan 15 '22

If it weren't for the tipping practice,his bill would have been higher, therfore he couldn't have afforded it. If you don't tip you meal is subsidized by the worker. Its not a hard concept to grasp. You are not paying a fair price for your meal.

3

u/sicklyslick Jan 15 '22

Just because the system is broken does not give you the right to fuck over the innocent people who are trapped by it.

the previous user clearly states he's from Canada. In most Canadian provinces, like ON and BC, there's no special waitress/bartender wage, unlike the States. They start at minimum just like just cashier at McD or Walmart greeters. Nobody is getting "fucked over". And the minimum in canada is about $14ish for more provinces.

1

u/DahmonGrimwolf Jan 15 '22

But he is clearly talking about US tipping practices.

2

u/JRR_SWOLEkien Jan 15 '22

The people eating out are also "the innocent people trapped in it".

Take it up with your fucking boss who is actually the one hurting you.

1

u/DahmonGrimwolf Jan 15 '22

You can do both. Not tipping is not a solution, its just harms the worker. You are a dick if you don't tip, AND we should remove the need for it, but it isn't going to.happen before my rent is due

2

u/JRR_SWOLEkien Jan 15 '22

Ok, so people stop going, the restaurant will go out of business, and you won't make the 2.13 wage or tips. You can't pay rent. Sorry, it sucks, but it's the restaurant's fault. Again, take it up with your cheapskate boss.

2

u/DahmonGrimwolf Jan 15 '22

Why does everyone want to defend the easy cheapskate thing for them to do but want to punish the cheapskate bosses. I'm starting to think the people on this sub would be the cheapskate boss if the tables were turned.

2

u/JRR_SWOLEkien Jan 15 '22

Did you forget what subreddit you're in?

Anyway, keep propping up mandatory tipping with your guilt-trips. Plenty of other countries do just fine without mandatory tipping, but apparently it's impossible for yours. LOL

1

u/DahmonGrimwolf Jan 15 '22

Your heads just to dense to pull out of your ass as far as I'm concerned. Have a good day.

-6

u/kolossal Jan 15 '22

No one's trapped in it sweetie.

6

u/DahmonGrimwolf Jan 15 '22

Don't call me sweetie, you're not cute. The system is designed to keep people helpless and struggling to make getting out of exploitation as hard as possible.

-27

u/teddyKGB- Jan 15 '22 edited Jan 15 '22

You need to spit in my food to not get 20%. Your take is awful.

21

u/x_mike_x Jan 15 '22

explain your take then. Why should we continue to accept tipping culture as normal in North America when it literally only benefits the restaurant owner? they're laughing their way to the bank while we fight about it. The only reason I can see to support tipping is if you own a restaurant yourself

1

u/teddyKGB- Jan 15 '22

Because that's the system right now. You can do both. I don't support the system but support the individuals in the service industry.

14

u/rockdoc21 Jan 15 '22

And you’re propping up a system where it’s considered the norm to be paid un-liveable wages. Get your head out of your ass and direct your anger in the right direction bud.

8

u/fishling Jan 15 '22

Someone's not tearing down the system by tipping zero either. That's just stomping on someone who is already down. You think the employer felt anything? They still profited off of you just fine.

If you don't want to "prop up the system" then you have no business eating at any restaurant that does tipping.

0

u/rockdoc21 Jan 15 '22

But now you see, the thing is, what I do with my time is no business of yours.

1

u/fishling Jan 15 '22

LOL what?

Why are you telling that other guy to get his head out of his ass and direct his anger in the right direction then, if you think what he does with his time is no business of yours? Or is this just a special rule that only applies to you?

If you're calling other people out, expect the same back at you when your take is wrong.

0

u/teddyKGB- Jan 15 '22

So the answer to the person serving your table is to not tip them? Because of the "system"? You're so bad ass. And a total piece of shit. Stay home

2

u/fishling Jan 15 '22

Are you dense? That's literally the opposite of what I said.

8

u/SanctuaryMoon Jan 15 '22

Stop defending the boot.

8

u/The___canadian Jan 15 '22

licking intensifies

-5

u/[deleted] Jan 15 '22

[deleted]

5

u/rockdoc21 Jan 15 '22

And that is because your politicians do not work for you (granted they don’t here in Canada either), they work for ‘Corporate America’. I find myself keeping up with American politics because of its impact on Canada (it’s also much more entertaining than Canadian politics), and with Mr Obstructionist in the senate and the constant partisanship I genuinely feel bad for you folks as a country. There is no chance for change with your current political system. You are getting shafted, and in this situation specifically you feel the need to put the blame on consumers who in some cases are also struggling to get by. You don’t know that individual’s story, or if they are struggling financially. What if someone is able to scrape enough together to be able to enjoy a ‘fancy’ meal but can’t tip, not everyone can. They still have every right to go out and eat, and thank god there is nothing you can do to stop them.

We can honestly go back and forth, but for actual change to happen, America needs RADICAL change, something that clearly will not be happening in the near future considering you lot are divided on just about every issue.

4

u/CROVID2020 Jan 15 '22

No, sorry 10% is what you get as a tip. Inflation has gone up, but wages haven’t why is the onus on me to give people who are not my employees essentially COL raises? You get 10% as a base and it goes higher if you did a good job. A tip is just that: a tip. I understand people live off of the tips they make so I don’t not tip, but it’s not my responsibility to pay you a fair wage. That’s on the employer. I don’t agree with the bs “20% should be the standard nowadays” because that just encourages employers to keep their wages low knowing full well society will pick up the slack and continue pushing the “standard” up.

1

u/2012DOOM Jan 15 '22

Minimum wage is guaranteed. If you don't make minimum wage with tips, then the employer has to pay them to you.

Either way I'm still going to tip, but please know your rights.

19

u/ThePoliteCanadian Jan 15 '22

Canadian here, agree. Americans are fucked with it and continue to get mad at the wrong person

14

u/crunchytech413 Jan 15 '22

Or, you know, Americans don’t like the tipping culture either but you can’t single handedly change it. We don’t get referendums where we can put it to a vote. Our congress is full of rich assholes who have no interest in this issue.

One thing you can change is not going to a sit down restaurant where tipping is expected if you are a cheapskate and won’t tip. It just screws over the worker making $2.13/hr…

3

u/roll_left_420 Jan 15 '22

Many states have referendums and minimum wage is usually codified by the state (in compliance with federal minimums).

You could, potentially, start a petition for a ballot item if you live in California or other referendum states.

That said, the capitalists will throw lots of money to try and kill it.

3

u/BioticFire Jan 15 '22

But you agree tipping also benefits the employer and enables them to continue doing this? A change needs to happen. If enough people stop tipping servers will quit, employers will be forced to give a livable wage to incentivize working there now. While this seems to be something that is unchangeable it gotta start somewhere.

1

u/crunchytech413 Jan 15 '22

Yes I agree that it does need to change. Stiffing the wait staff won’t help though.

2

u/HappyDangerNoodle Jan 16 '22

I'm shocked I had to scroll so far to see this. Yes, no ethical consumption under capitalism, I get it. You don't know where your glasses are being manufactured, what the labour conditions are for your clothes, or if there was child labour involved raising the sugar in the oatmeal cookie you just bought.

But like not tipping...you know. It's as close to a 1 to 1 situation as you'll ever get. Like, get take out if you wanted the food.

You don't have the right to be waited on. (Clothes, glasses, food, fuck yeah....someone to literally act as a rent a servant for an hour....no.) I'm sorry, that's old school bullshit.

9

u/[deleted] Jan 15 '22

What if i told you it’s possible to oppose the tips system and still tip well so my server can pay rent

7

u/DotEnvironmental8648 Jan 15 '22

Then how am I opposing the system then?

0

u/zenchemin Jan 15 '22

Ever heard "you can't have your cake and eat it too" ?

This is you trying to both benefit from a system you say you want torn down. That doesn't work, mate.

2

u/[deleted] Jan 15 '22

Birthdays were tough. The worst is when I got old enough to realize mom ate depending on how we did. It breaks my heart even now to think about

Sometimes we ate dishes we didn't even really want because the one we did would break us on the tip. Sometimes forgo drinks, and why should we be able to have dessert? Those are tip money, or potential extra tip money that needs paid.

5

u/kakarot_77 Jan 15 '22

Ahh but you see, these workers DON'T wanna direct their anger at tipping culture cuz they get hundreds, or even thousands of bucks in a few hours in the weekends. They're willing to take this insane risk of letting the customer decide how much to pay them cuz then they can guilt-trip customers into paying insane amounts of money for already overpriced food, but if the customer refuses to tip, they cry and whine about it to the world about their shitty $2.13 minimum wage, while conveniently hiding the fact that they took this risk cuz they get paid hundreds of bucks in a weekend.

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u/TriforceHero1998 Jan 15 '22

Ok but here’s the thing, in America, tipping is part of a person’s wages. And yeah it sucks and it’s the employers fault and it really shouldn’t be like like, but that’s how it is.

Every person in America knows that’s how it is. When you go into a restaurant, you do so knowing that you’re going to factor in the tip for your waiter or waitress.

The idea of someone going out and spending 77 dollars, then acting like they’re too “broke” to even throw in a cheap ten dollars is fucking absurd. It’s not as though they didn’t know they would be expected to pay a tip when they went out that evening for dinner. Or what, they only had exactly 77 dollars?

It’s understandable that you don’t get it if you’re not from America, but not tipping a waiter/waitress is just a dick move.

And yes, ultimately it’s the system that’s to blame, but that doesn’t mean it’s not also the customer’s fault for being cheapskates.

8

u/[deleted] Jan 15 '22

The idea that a restaurant can afford to hire for a measly $2.35 but doesn't have an extra cheap $5 to give per hour to it's employee out of it's profit margins?

The idea that a place should be allowed to function as a business that is based on literal donations to pay it's employees, yet the customer is the one with financial problems?

The idea that the customer should be accountable for someone else's life choices that lead them to that job? The customer wants a sandwich not to feel guilty enough to pitch an unspoken mandatory donation so a human being doesn't starve.

The idea that you put this on the customer. With their hard earned money. Versus a business, that exists to net profit. Who should really pay that?

The idea that most places can afford to do this at the expense of lower profits at this moment in time

Those that cannot pay their employees without going under should not be open. Fuck off with your ass backward logic. That family could have $100 for a night, $77 is a fair night out. To act like they couldn't use that $23 of their earned, taxed money for something better than enforcing a system that could be put to rest tomorrow but won't because mindless drones like yourself believe it's necessary

17

u/JustanotherMFfreckle Jan 15 '22

It 100% is not the customers fault or does it make the customer a cheapskate. Your answer is the bedrock of why we have this sub. You're seriously out to lunch if you think any of the blame or fault lies with the customer. Tip culture is the problem. Not tipping is the solution. Stop being part of the problem because you feel guilted into it by someone else who is also suffering.

3

u/irlharvey Jan 15 '22 edited Jan 15 '22

sorry, but this specific case is the customer’s fault in addition to tipping culture’s!. it’s a fucking asshole move. when i don’t have an extra $10 to tip i make my own food or go to mcdonalds like everyone else.

YOU, the customer who doesn’t tip the person who is serving you for $3 an hour, are exploiting this worker. everyone agrees with this when it’s drinking nestle chocolate milk, but suddenly there’s no burden on the consumer at all here? when it directly and exclusively fucks over the worker? bullshit.

2

u/JustanotherMFfreckle Jan 15 '22

Love it when bootlickers come into this sub.

7

u/HokemPokem Jan 15 '22

but that’s how it is.

And that's how it will always be unless people are willing to change.

You know what happens if tipping stopped? All the wait staff quit because they sure as fuck arent going to work for 2 dollars an hour. All the millionaires who own these franchises aren't just going to shut up shop so guess what happens? They have to start offering a living wage to their staff to stay in business.

You can't fix a problem by shrugging your shoulders and going along with it.

2

u/nobird36 Jan 15 '22 edited Jan 15 '22

It needs to be changed by changing the laws that allow it not by fucking over the worker.

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u/HokemPokem Jan 15 '22

Lobbying means that will never happen. This is one of those "will of the people" type things. It will only happen if people stop tipping.

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u/[deleted] Jan 15 '22

Why is your solution to stop tipping servers instead of simply not patronizing a business that relies on tips to give their employees a semi-livable wage? Stop tipping by removing yourself from the equation entirely instead of putting the pressure on someone who is barely scraping by.

If you're going out to eat, you're paying the restaurant, the only person you hurt by not tipping is your server, the restaurant already has your money and they don't care that you didn't tip.

1

u/HokemPokem Jan 15 '22 edited Jan 15 '22

they don't care that you didn't tip.

Of course, they do. You aren't thinking this through. The business is getting their free labor because of your tip. You stop tipping, no more free labor. They have to pay for it themselves because no waiter is going to work for free.

Restaurants are not charities. They arent public services. They don't get government subsidies. They are privately owned businesses and if they cant afford to pay their waitstaff 20 dollars an hour...(they can btw) ....then they shouldnt be in business.

Waitstaff deserve to be paid. Not by you. Not by me. By their EMPLOYER who benefits from their work.

1

u/[deleted] Jan 15 '22

Waitstaff deserve to be paid. Not by you. Not by me. By their EMPLOYER who benefits from their work.

I agree with you, which is why my suggestion is to stop giving your money to businesses that rely on you to tip their employees, don't put the pain to the wait staff, put it to the owners.

Restaurants are not charities. They arent public services. They don't get government subsidies. They are privately owned businesses and if they cant afford to pay their waitstaff 20 dollars an hour...(they can btw) ....then they shouldnt be in business.

I understand this, but don't see how it's relevant to what I'm suggesting, which, again, is that you stop going to restaurants that won't pay their employees appropriately.

If you eat at a restaurant and pay your bill, you've paid the owners. Refusing to tip your server when you know the business doesn't pay them a living wage only hurts your server. You're supporting tipping culture even if you're not participating it.

3

u/HokemPokem Jan 15 '22

Refusing to tip your server when you know the business doesn't pay them a living wage only hurts your server.

No it doesn't. We've been over this. The wait staff quit......the owner of diner puts an ad for more staff. But people won't work for free. So no suddenly he has to pay a living wage to stay in business.

So who wins here? The staff. Now they have a regular paycheck and are paid FAIRLY for their work by the person benefitting....THEIR EMPLOYER. They don't have to worry about making X tips and not being able to pay rent because it was a slow week.

The only person who "loses" here is the diner owner because shock horror....he has to actually pay his slaves some actual money.

The owners are counting on our morality and soft hearts while they laugh their way to the bank. The only way to fix this injustice is together.

Tipping culture doesn't exist in most of Europe. Guess what? Servers arent making 2 euro an hour. Businesses actually PAY their staff.

1

u/[deleted] Jan 15 '22

No it doesn't. We've been over this. The wait staff quit......the owner of diner puts an ad for more staff. But people won't work for free. So no suddenly he has to pay a living wage to stay in business.

I don't know if you've noticed, but tipping culture has been prevalent for a long time and restaurants still have staff, even though plenty of people refuse to tip. You're proposing a fantasy version of a solution that doesn't inconvenience you in any way.

So who wins here? The staff. Now they have a regular paycheck and are paid FAIRLY for their work by the person benefitting....THEIR EMPLOYER. They don't have to worry about making X tips and not being able to pay rent because it was a slow week.

You also benefit from your server's labor, they handle every aspect of your experience. That doesn't justify tipping culture, but it is the current reality of dining out.

And again, why do we need to hurt the "slaves" to solve the problem instead hurting the business owner directly by withholding your business?

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u/nobird36 Jan 15 '22

Don't say 'stop tipping'. Say what it actually is. Fucking over other workers and making them suffer economically.

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u/HokemPokem Jan 15 '22

This is the trick the capitalist has played and you have fallen for it.

I'm not "fucking over" the worker. Their employer is. They are getting free labour by making the customer pay for it and not paying their fair share.

Imagine going into your local dealership and being charged 15% extra for your car. When you ask why, the owner laughs and says "Why would I pay my staff when you willingly do it for me! I get free labour!"

America doesn't let this slide in any other industry. Why does hospitality get a free pass?

Wake up. It's us vs them. Stop fighting with your own people.

0

u/nobird36 Jan 15 '22

Stop fighting with your own people.

Says the guy who thinks the solution is to knowingly deprive a worker of the way they make their living while you enjoy a meal at a restaurant. You know who doesn't get hurt in that scenario? The business.

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u/HokemPokem Jan 15 '22

You know who doesn't get hurt in that scenario? The business.

Your logic is.......astounding.

How many wait staff do you know who would work for 2 dollars an hour? None. Therefore the business has no staff.....therefore no business. Desperate for staff, they would have to start paying proper wages. Now suddenly instead of YOU paying for your local restaurant's staff.....THEY have to pay them.

How can you be so myopic as to not see this? I'm genuinely flabberghasted.

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u/nobird36 Jan 15 '22

Let me know when you have convinced everyone in the country (that you don't even live in) to stop tipping. Until then you are just being a dick and exploiting workers for your own selfish desires.

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u/_RandyRandleman_ Jan 15 '22

yeah but skint people are allowed to treat themself too? i’ve been at times where i’d take my mrs out for a really expensive meal and then the bank would be empty. just because tipping is so important doesn’t mean everyone will or has to and it definitely doesn’t make them a cheapskate for saying sorry they can’t tip lol

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u/[deleted] Jan 15 '22

Yeah. American culture literally says that people in poverty should not ever be able to enjoy nice things, for one reason or another. This is just one iteration of that concept. Watch the person your responding to justify it. So crappy.

Source: lifelong American who grew up mostly poor for most of the time

1

u/Aegi Jan 15 '22

No it’s not, it’s a minimum wage job that has the potential to earn more than minimum wage if they earn more than that in tips each week. Anybody who needs more than minimum wage for sure should be going to a different industry if they can’t survive a few weeks of minimum wage.

1

u/polygon_wolf Jan 15 '22

That’s how it is

No not really, if people stopped tipping employers will have to get around paying their workers decent wages. Instead we shame people who don’t tip which makes no sense since the point of tipping is that it is optional and you only tip when feeling generous

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u/Clashyy Jan 15 '22

The amount of people responding to you that are clearly offended because they’re shitty tippers is amazing. Yes people, it’s not your fault that servers rely on tips, that’s a result of the horrible tipping culture in America and greed. But to go sit your lazy gluttonous ass down at a restaurant, order a bunch of food and then not tip your server(who’s probably making around $2 an hour) is objectively a fucked up thing to do. We all agree it’s bullshit, messed up, and should be illegal to pay these people so little that they rely on gratuity to survive, but you know thats how it is and thus have the obligation to tip when you go out to eat. And if you’re one of those people who do some form of mental gymnastics to justify your lack of tipping, please stop going out and just cook your own damn food.

5

u/Caustic_Complex Jan 15 '22

Nah tipping is an extra for exceptional service, and sorry broke people can go out too sometimes with having to pay a hefty and arbitrary additional %. Doesn’t make them lazy or gluttonous, plus if servers don’t get tipped they default to federal minimum wage.

0

u/minnieminute Jan 15 '22

You don’t know their situation. Maybe they saved up to take their kids out for a little treat but the tip is just too much for them on top when they might need it for other things.

America really is a hell scape when someone gets SHAMED for not tipping at a restaurant.

6

u/I-hate-this-timeline Jan 15 '22

I deliver for a more expensive pizza chain. I understand people can have issues but stiffing me on a $70 order because you’re “broke” when the same amount of food would be like half the cost at Pizza Hut is infuriating.

5

u/lumberzach316 Jan 15 '22

If you live in America then a proper tip is part of the expected cost of eating out at a restaurant with table service.

2

u/crunchytech413 Jan 15 '22

Yes but Americans know the tipping culture exists. So if you don’t want to leave a tip then don’t go to a sit down restaurant, spend $77, and then stiff the wait staff.

6

u/The_Stav Jan 15 '22

But then that's putring the responsibility of paying the staff on the customer, which you can't expect them to do by paying more than the value of their food. Especially if they're broke and just want to treat themselves...

3

u/crunchytech413 Jan 15 '22

That is the expectation in the United States. It isn’t right but until it changes this is how it works, and leaving no tip screws over the worker.

3

u/[deleted] Jan 15 '22

Yes, you are right in the sense that the anger should be directed at tipping culture and companies underpaying. However, the reality is everyone in America knows that severs are paid near 0 and that tip is to be included as part of the dining experience (so long as the service is reasonable). I long for the day when companies are forced to pay servers a real wage and this tipping culture can become a thing of the past, but in the meantime you’re sort of an asshole for not tipping for decent service, as that should be factored in to the cost of going out.

4

u/DancingUntilMidnight Jan 15 '22

everyone in America knows that severs are paid near 0

Every state is different. Even in the low COL areas of CA, servers make $15/hr. Servers want cash tips so they don't have to report the extra income. I'm not one anymore, but have definitely done my time.

https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/state/minimum-wage/tipped

5

u/The_Stav Jan 15 '22

Like I've said elsewhere now, it just feels weird to get mad a customer for not paying more than the value of their food. Like putting the blame on them just feels like you're aiming at the wrong person

2

u/[deleted] Jan 15 '22

It feels weird, I hate it, but it’s part of the society and the social norms in which I live. Part of eating out and the “value of the food” includes tip

0

u/fishling Jan 15 '22

Why do you think only one kind of anger can be present in this situation?

I can be upset that the owner is paying the wait staff crap wage that requires tipping. Down with tipping culture!

The wait staff can be upset at the owner for legally paying them crap. Down with tipping to make up for crap wages!

The wait staff can be mad at the customer for tipping zero. They got screwed over twice.

And I can be upset at the customer who tipped zero, because I can empathize with the wait staff, and while the customer might say "don't be mad at me, be mad at the employer", I can recognize that they are shifting blame, because THEY just supported that employer by going to the restaurant. They don't actually care about the issue, they just want to deflect the blame to someone else.

"Sure, I screwed over the waitress, but I'm not technically the one who put them in a position to get screwed over, I'm just one of the people that actually screwed them over, in addition to the owner". How is that acceptable? There are two people to blame in that situation, so I'll blame both.

And besides, you are wrong about paying more than the value of their food. With the tip, you are paying for the service. I get that it is a bit muddled because it isn't a flat rate and the common convention is to make it a percentage of the food cost, but that's irrelevant. It's also kind of weird because you can leave without paying and it's not illegal, because you are allowed to decide the service was worth nothing. You are paying for the individual service with the tip, and the wonky way that price for the service is determined does not change that.

To be consistent, I don't tip for takeout, because there was no service and I'm just paying for the food. I agree that putting the food on a plate versus a to go container/bag is part of the cost of running a restaurant and is not tippable service. I don't tip when I buy from a grocery or retail store either.

But if I am sitting down and someone is orchestrating the experience and taking orders and giving advice when necessary and getting food and appetizers out and getting drinks and water and so on, then that service is worth something.

It would be good if that service cost was factored into the food cost. I would prefer if those restaurant jobs just paid better and (for the US) had benefits. But I know when it isn't factored in, and I know that if I go to a restaurant like that, that I am going to be paying for service.

Paying for a service is not a concept that is unique for restaurants. You might argue that many wait staff positions do not require specialized training to the same degree that a mechanic or barber or something, but that doesn't mean their labor is worth zero either.

2

u/strawberrymilkyway2 Jan 15 '22

The idea is that you're not just paying for the food, you could order takeout and eat at home and you would be "paying for the food" but if you're being waited on you're also supposed to pay for the service, not having to do your own dishes, having someone bring you whatever you need and make your time out fun/pleasant.

Additionally, restaurants make servers tip out support staff based on net sales at the end of the night, not on tips. So if I'm tipping out bussers, hosts, expos, and bartenders, then on a $77 bill I'm actually losing money, not just making nothing. If you can pay $77 for food and to treat yourself you can afford to tip your server at least a little bit. It's not really adding that much to the bill.

Yeah the system sucks but if you go to eat out you're participating in the system and not tipping only harms the server.

3

u/The_Stav Jan 15 '22

I get WHY people tip, but it is still optional. To put the blame on the customer for using the system as intended rather than how fucked the system is in the first place feels weird to me, but that could just be my outside view

-2

u/strawberrymilkyway2 Jan 15 '22

What part of stiffing the server is using the system as intended?

6

u/The_Stav Jan 15 '22

Bc the option to stiff the server is built into the system itself. I'm not saying it's good, it's quite horrible actually, but so long as it is an option people are going to choose it. That's what I mean by "using the system as intended"

1

u/strawberrymilkyway2 Jan 15 '22

Yeah this is true, what's also true is that people who stiff will always be demonized because it's the only "recourse" available in this system.

2

u/Spaghetti-daydreams Jan 15 '22

True but it’s an established custom here, you shouldn’t eat out if you don’t plan to tip. It sucks bc you don’t know exactly what the bills going to be but you shouldn’t shaft the waiter because tip culture sucks. This didn’t really change the system or prove anything it just pissed off another working class person trying to get by.

-1

u/[deleted] Jan 15 '22

The minimum wage for waitstaff is like $2 as long as waitstaff get tipped enough tk bring their hourly wage to a whopping $7.25, which is the federal minimum wage. So yes, it is a big deal, especially since this person had almost $80 to spend. And yes, the system is the problem, but it’s still an absolute dick move to not tip

7

u/The_Stav Jan 15 '22

But the customer is just using the system as intended? Idk it feels weird to complain about the customer not paying more than the value of their food, rather than focus complaints at the system itself

4

u/[deleted] Jan 15 '22

The material reality of the situation is that servers, whi work incredibly demanding, difficult, and unstable jobs, depend on tips to make even close to a liveable income. I would also argue that “the customer is just using the system as intended” is not actually a great defense of this customer’s behavior

7

u/The_Stav Jan 15 '22

I think so. If I buy something for the displayed price, but then someone says "Hey if you don't add another 10-20% on top of that, you're an asshole", that feels bizarre to me. It would be great if everyone could tip their servers, but so long as it isn't mandatory you can't really get mad at people for not doing so

4

u/[deleted] Jan 15 '22

I think being british you might be missing some context here. It’s common knowledge that servers rely on tips for income. Going to a restaurant and not tipping would be like….not supporting Liverpool? Idk what is equivalently heinous

5

u/The_Stav Jan 15 '22

I don't even follow football so no idea of what a good comparison would be lol

3

u/[deleted] Jan 15 '22

I’ll just say one more thing because i am procrastinating! I think something i forget about this subreddit is that it’s relatively ideologically diverse. The way i think about tipping is, while it may not be the most equitable system, my priority has to be materially supporting my fellow workers in a very precarious industry! If someone’s political orientation here is more just “bosses suck,” or they’re coming from a country with a stronger welfare state and no tipping culture, that’s probably going to seem a little ridiculous. To be honest though, some of the convoluted hypotheticals i see people coming up with on this thread to justify not tipping are in my opiniom way more ridiculous :)

3

u/The_Stav Jan 15 '22

The way I view tipping is that if it was like the US where wages are dependant on it I myself would make sure to tip, but I wouldn't get mad at other people for not tipping. Does that make sense?

I 100% accept that this could just be because the US tipping culture is so alien to me though, nd that if I lived in the US I very well might think differently

2

u/[deleted] Jan 15 '22

Probably better for your blood pressure! I also think in different parts of America, norms around tipping are different. I live in a part of the country where tipping is expected and honestly it would never occur to me not to do it EDIT: i also used to be a server myself lol

3

u/nibjhfp Jan 15 '22

The owners, paying them 2 dollars an hour, are also just using the system as intended. Guess no one is to blame, everyone SMILE!

These people...

0

u/[deleted] Jan 15 '22

The system "as intended" relies on customers tipping their servers. Stiffing your waiter because you don't agree with the practice is not going to make any difference, the restaurant already has your money. The only person you're hurting is the person making 2$/hour to help you.

I don't agree with the culture at all, it's complete bullshit, but I still tip well on the rare occasion that I go out to eat.

If you live in the US and choose to treat yourself to a meal at a restaurant that only pays their servers $2/hour and you choose not to tip, you're not making a statement, you're being an entitled prick. Basically the "got mine, fuck you" of the service industry

1

u/sopreshous Jan 15 '22

Yeah tipping culture sucks, but I take more issues with someone taking up a table. When I’m broke and want to eat out I factor in my choices. I can eat in and tip, get delivery and tip, or I can do a pick up, no tip. The note was tacky and if they only wanted to pay for the meal they should have found a place that they could do a pick up with.

1

u/fanatic1123 Jan 15 '22

Nah fuck the customer. You want to treat yourself by making someone else basically work for free?

0

u/The_Stav Jan 15 '22

But that's blaming the customer for the exploitation done by the companies

1

u/Zeefzeef Jan 15 '22

You’re right about tipping cultures but… you’re not broke if your gonna pay 77 dollars for dinner. That is ridiculous, if you were really broke you wouldn’t go out to dinner. So that is just bs.

0

u/Ellie__1 Jan 15 '22

In the US, paying for table service is part of the cost of the meal. Yes, it's fucked up that customers are responsible for paying the waiter, and not the restaurant owner. But that's the system right now.

Going out to eat a $77 meal and then deciding you're too broke to pay the person that provided you table service is very, very bad behavior. It's anti-worker, and it's stealing. If you're broke and want to treat yourself to a meal, get a $60 meal and pay your server.

1

u/Moon_Atomizer Jan 15 '22 edited Jan 15 '22

I guess I'm in the minority in thinking that tipping, by cutting out the middle man that skims profit off the pay for your service, actually leads to higher and more commensurate pay for servers on average than they would get if they had just relied on the "goodwill" of their employer.

Doesn't beat a proper minimum wage, health care, right to unionize and the right to knowing one's schedule a month ahead of time, but I do think servers in America actually make much more than servers in most other countries.

Of course tips do create a culture of discriminatory service against people assumed to be "poor" and can reinforce structures of racism.

Source: have done bartending in both the States and Japan and I made wildly more money in America

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u/Happy_Ebb_2427 Jan 15 '22

At the restaurant I work at, we tip out 3% of our sales. So, not only is the server paying to serve this table, they're losing out on lost wages from potentially paying customers. In most higher-end places (just guessing based on the total of this check), servers only have 3 or so tables they are working.

1

u/squigs Jan 15 '22

If it's as baked into the culture as it is in the US though, the cost of treating yourself should surely include the arbitrary addition of a tip, just like it includes the arbitrary addition of tax. The only difference is that it's legal not to pay it.

The system is screwed up but it really feels like they're taking advantage of the system here.

2

u/The_Stav Jan 15 '22

I mean there's a reason why taxes are mandatory, if they weren't most people wouldn't bother paying them lol

1

u/gotta_h-aveit Jan 15 '22

Because it’s taking money out of the servers pocket. Making them do an unpaid service. Besides the fact that taking that table prevents them from taking one who actually tips, usually servers have to share their tips with bartenders and bus boys. I have literally had to pay money out of my own pocket to tip the bartender for drinks for a table who stuffed me.

Yes it’s a stupid system. But fucking over the person making $3 an hour does nothing to solve that. Tip your servers in America. You’re an asshole if you don’t, period. Also, if you can’t afford $85 on something nonessential you can’t afford $77. It’s basic personal finance

1

u/Most_Goat Jan 15 '22

You're right, however tipping culture is prevalent here. Every Murican knows that if you're going to a restaurant, have enough to tip. Not tipping is a huge cultural faux pas and a dick move.

Now, yes, servers should be paid a liveable base wage. But if you don't want to pay tips, then you don't go to a tipping establishment. Refusing to tip when servers depend on tips just hurts the server. You're still eating at that establishment and so the business owners are still getting their money. So the customer isn't blameless here. They're still feeding into the problem (profit for the establishment) while also hurting the server. In this case, the customer took advantage of the fact that prices would be lower because they would be expected to tip and then they didn't to save money.

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u/stankin Jan 15 '22

If you are broke you don't go out and spend that kind of money on dinner. You eat at home with food bought at the grocery store. The person here is either cheap, an ass or financially irresponsible from my point of view.

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u/jolla92126 Jan 15 '22

That person knowingly "treated" themselves to the OP's work.

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u/fishling Jan 15 '22

Yes, it is still a massive issue and we can be mad at both things. I'd like to see tipping go away, but while it is here, I'm not going to screw over the person working by tipping them zero.

When you go to a restaurant with table service, the tip is part of the price, just one that is partially set by the customer. If you actually got decent service but paid zero, you are a bad customer.

If this guy was broke, but it was their birthday or something, then they either should have ordered something cheaper, or made up the money on the rest of the month (since they were paying with credit), gone somewhere else, or just not gone.

I don't tip at fast food places or for takeout though. There are a few places like that which have tip enabled and I choose zero there, because those positions are paid differently and I think they are exploiting customers who are used to tipping.

There was only one time I was part of a group that tipped zero, and that was because the waiter was straight up hitting on some girlfriends at the table (not just flirting) and no one cared for it, and wasn't that great as a waiter either. He actively earned the zero.

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u/funkiestgore360 Jan 15 '22

I feel like the anger should be directed at tipping culture and the companies that underpay their workers

cant follow a tipping culture home and pour sugar in their gas tank like you can a cheap customer

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u/DavidtheGoliath99 Jan 15 '22

If this was in Europe, you'd be right. Where I live, tipping isn't expected from you. But in the US, restaurant workers literally rely on your tips to get by. So tipping is 100% expected of you. Which means that when you eat out, a reasonable tip needs to be part of your budget. If you can't afford a 15% or so tip, you can't afford to eat at that restaurant. So just go to a cheaper one and give the difference as a tip. All not tipping does is make your server who relies on your tip miserable. So yeah, US tipping culture is ridiculous and needs to change. But with the way things are right now, whether you're broke or not, not giving a tip is just being a huge asshole.