r/antiwork Jan 14 '22 Silver 5 Helpful 16 Wholesome 10

So sorry, I'm broke so I can only pay you $77 for my food. You were great though.

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6.8k

u/Erect_Llama Jan 15 '22 Wholesome Take My Energy

One of the biggest things in America I'll never understand is why tipping is so important. Like why tf can't the server's get paid a decent wage? Why do they live off of tips?

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u/meghammatime19 Jan 15 '22 All-Seeing Upvote

Save the restaurant a pretty penny 必必必必必必

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u/Kind_Man_0 Jan 15 '22 edited Jan 15 '22

Saves A LOT of them.

Typical paycheck for a full time waitress is about $60 or so. Let's run the math from dinner rush to close.

That is $12 for a full night's wages, Given that the cook making the meals gets paid about $14/hr that puts us at $84, so $96 for the pair of them

One waitress where I worked could have waited about 70 tables til close,

I wasn't in charge of food purchasing, but a typical meal for 4 was simple; most sides were ready made for the night, only entrees were consistently cooked to order. So at roughly $30 dollars for a table of 2, we will run that at 2.5 per table to account for larger groups. Over the course of the rush, we could serve about 300 tables in a night BUT we will consider only that one waitress and cook for this math. At $30 per table, your restaurant made $2100 off the labor of those two employee

Takes out food costs, which is about 1/4 of it, you just made a profit $1479

Pay our hardworking wait staff what the deserve in this country.

YES, I know I am not calculating in rent and other restaurant expenses. I am making a point of how the backbone of a functioning restaurant earns the lowest overhead cost.

Let me add to this a second time since some people are mad at me for not considering the other expenses.

I laid down the basic math for how much money can be made during a 6 hour shift from 5-11. This is not how much profit you are making, this is REVENUE GENERATED per employee.

Yes, if I wait tables and I go in for 6 hours, bust out 60 tables at $5 a piece, that is decent income. But it doesn't happen every night. And you don't go home right after the restaurant closes.

Most restaurants are going to have you helping shut down after close for $2.13/hr and there are no customers to tip you.

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u/Cerael Jan 15 '22

I like where the cooks make 14 flat and are doing more labor.

I didn't say servers don't work hard but the work required to cook that much often goes unappreciated in these posts.

Let's include all restaurant workers. Corporate spots don't tip cooks ever

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u/Abbaddonhope Jan 15 '22

Cant they just pay everyone involved more

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u/Lonely_Animator4557 Jan 15 '22

They could but that could decrease profits and decrease stock value which would anger the investors and cause them to switch cfo or ceo or some other multi million dollar position which they cant

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u/threeleggedgirl Jan 15 '22

Most restaurants aren't publicly traded and have no obligation to stock holders. It's purely the restaurant owner being a greedy sociopath most of the time lmao

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u/Lonely_Animator4557 Jan 15 '22

Still feeds into the point that the people in charge of the company are looking out for themselves Publicly traded companies take this a step further by shifting blame away from the money hoarding c level execs to the stock holders which in the USA something like 10% of the population owns 90% of the stock market

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u/goldenopal42 Jan 15 '22

Theyre usually working with some kind of borrowed/invested money though. If only for accounting purposes. That money will move to a different industry where the employees can be exploited better.

Sad fact of American capitalism is the best way to ensure your service person gets paid enough to continue to perform the service you want is to give them the money directly.

I am not saying its a great system, but I dont understand why people are so put off by it either.

I dont want to pay you. The one I am interacting with. The one here actually doing the work for me. I want to pay your boss and let him figure out what you should earn.

Why? I dont get it.

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u/Abbaddonhope Jan 15 '22

Yeah treating your workers like their people decreases stock value

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u/Cerael Jan 15 '22

Cmon lad chin up, thats what this whole movement is about.

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u/marker_dinova Jan 15 '22

It goes much further than that. Sometimes we talk about investors like a round table of Illuminati shrouded in shadows. But the reality is that if we own 401Ks, IRAs, any index fund, or even some Insurance products, we are have a seat at that round table. If we dont see that graph pointing upwards for a few quarters/years, were calling up our financial advisers. Sometimes its even automated. Our entire economy is based on forcing every business to grow continually. When they cant do it organically theyll do it any way possible: reduce quality and/or screw their employees. Its unsustainable because infinite growth doesnt exist.

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u/NumerousHelicopter6 Jan 15 '22

不不不 decrease the stock value.....as if all restaurants are corporate

It wouldn't decrease profits it would most likely increase them. Think about it if you force the restaurant to pay $20 an hour and the restaurant averages forty $12 burgers an hour, they do this with two servers both with 4 table sections and they were paying them $4 per hour. So that's an increase of $16 per hour X 2 = $32. Now that the owner has to come up with an additional $32 an hour just to maintain, do you think he adds a dollar to the burger, or do you think he only marks up the exact amount to cover the expense? We both know what happens here whether we agree with it or not.

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u/machen2307 Jan 15 '22

Lol big olive garden would like to have a word

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u/[deleted] Jan 15 '22

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u/sporifix Jan 15 '22

So you are willing to pay more for your meal if its included in the price, but not if you have to add it as a tip? Im not sure what the logic here is - if tipping were eliminated and wages went up, the cost of the meal would rise commensurately. Youre still paying extra for the service - you just dont get to choose how much or how little you pay as you do with a tip.

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u/lawless636 Jan 15 '22 Gold Take My Energy

If cooks made more I would cook. Having to deal with the customers is honestly the worst part of the fucking job so youre gonna have to pay me money to deal with you. Honestly Id rather wash dishes for 20 bucks an hour then deal with the fucking customers. It is a soul sucking job.

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u/firesoups Jan 15 '22

The customers are WHY I cook. I like working in restaurants, every aspect. Its fun. Ive worked every position in front and back of house. After almost 20 years, I stay in the kitchen. Customers are exhausting.

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u/Gildian Jan 15 '22

Worked for McDonald's for 5ish years so not quite the same as a nicer restaurant cook per se but God damn shifts working the counter were pure hell most days. I basically begged to be put on grill or assembly

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u/lmp0stor Jan 15 '22

"Let me explain something to you, Dave. There are two kinds of angry people in this world: explosive and implosive. Explosive is the kind of individual you see screaming at the cashier for not taking their coupons. Implosive is the cashier who remains quiet day after day and finally SHOOTS everyone in the store. You're the cashier."

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u/JediWarrior79 Jan 15 '22

LOVE that movie!!!

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u/hrnigntmare Jan 15 '22

When I waited tables I made it a point to get trained in back and work the line once a week just so I wouldnt forget how bad it is. I used to get so pissed at the cooks before I actually worked the line and afterwards that stopped immediately.

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u/Jankensolvesall5512 Jan 15 '22

Last place I cooked they had us do the dishes as well and they capped us at $12/hr. Im pretty sure everyone would wash dishes for $20/hr.

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u/BorderlineBarbieUwU Jan 15 '22

at least in the dish pit at some corporate places you'll be allowed to have a music player to help you lessen the fucking monotony of the dish pit

source: former dish dog

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u/[deleted] Jan 15 '22

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u/Mission-Run-7474 Jan 15 '22

I dont know why uoure being downvoted. What fancy ass restaurant is paying dishwashers 20 an hour?

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u/firesoups Jan 15 '22

Our cooks and dishwashers make the same $20 an hour. Owner says hes trying to change the industry from the inside, but that only applies to our slightly above average wages for the area. We still dont have PTO, insurance, or any other benefits.

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u/[deleted] Jan 15 '22

Didnt you read the fucking cook, the reason a fucking restaurant exists and what makes it breaks it gets paid 14 an hour? Why the fuck would they pay you 20 for washing dishes?

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u/Jrjosh2 Jan 15 '22

I make close to 20 after starting as a dishwasher in the kitchen less than year ago. Our dishwashers start at 16 here with no experience. Wages have been driven up at the places willing to pay out

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u/Send_Your_Noods_plz Jan 15 '22

Every server in the industry knows cooks are being gyped. Just ask them to take a kitchen shft. The only way to make money in a restaurant is to be a server or a manager, and that shouldnt be a secret but it is. If you work in a kitchen just stop. Dont kill yourself for less money than you could make stocking shelves at target. If the idea of customer service and faking being nice is scary, just know everyone is faking it and eating shit and apologizing for things that are not your fault doesnt really matter, especially if you dont mean it... and the secret is you dont really have to. Your words are your representation... youll never see these people again so fuck em. Say whatever you have to say to get through the day, just like you have to do whatever you have to do to get the job done

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u/Cerael Jan 15 '22

While youre right its also a fairly selfish mindset. I give a shit about my community and the people in it, and it matters if people other than me are being exploited.

Ive fought for industry people before and I dont plan to stop.

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u/[deleted] Jan 15 '22

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u/[deleted] Jan 15 '22

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u/threeleggedgirl Jan 15 '22

Yeah, say that word in a professional setting and I'm sure that'll be the excuse you give HR during your termination lol. It's blatantly a slur against Romani people - it comes from the derogatory term "gypsy" and more specifically roots itself in the stereotype that they would rip you off and scam you, hence you'd get "gyped". Roma have a long and nasty history of oppression, and were even euthanized en masse alongside Jewish people in the Holocaust. It'd be like saying you got kike'd

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u/Wtfisthatkid716 Jan 15 '22

I leave my cooking job after today to go be an EMT. Cooking is so underpaid.

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u/Cerael Jan 15 '22

Congrats man, I leave after the weekend. Feels good to get out

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u/Wtfisthatkid716 Jan 15 '22

Congrats to you too! I agree. Im tired of the ever changing schedule and being underpaid. I liked cooking at first but after a few years it really wore me down. Not for me. The customers oddly are why I went to cooking, but also the only reason I kept doing it. Always felt good to have someone say they like the food you made.

Im out though. The owners are so unappreciative. Im only going in today because i appreciate my fellow cooks who I know will be hurting if I dont come in during the game tonight. Otherwise Id say fuck it.

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u/Aegi Jan 15 '22

No, might be more emotionally stressful, and thats only sometimes, but its objectively easier to be a server then to be a chef, to be fair Ive only been a line cook, but Ive done both and its absolutely easy as fuck to be a server, its only emotionally challenging sometimes, which is the same with any customer-facing industry.

Also servers rarely work an eight hour shift each day, whereas thats much more common place in most kitchens, additionally servers almost always get paid more than the cook/chefs except for during very slow times or at certain very nice restaurants where the chef is really valued by the owners.

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u/SuddenClearing Jan 15 '22

This is always so interesting to me like, do other servers not tip out boh? That was a requirement for us and they made us count it at the bar.

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u/Aegi Jan 15 '22

Even at places where this happens I've never once met or hear of anyone that tipped out based on 100% of their tips (I have heard of people who maybe did this for a month or few at most, then switched their practices, but only when it was their first job, and generally right out of high school).

Most people at least round down when reporting their cash tips, many take a buck or few, or a large/special tip straight to their pocket.

I'm not making any judgements in this comment, just explaining my experience.

But I've worked at a few restaurants, FoH and BoH, and only once did I work in a place where they tipped out more than the bartender, but even then the hardest job (dishwasher) wasn't tipped out, when that would sometimes literally fuck up the kitchen more than a chef leaving b/c if you get a replacement chef in 30 minutes you might not get that behind, but if you can't have someone cleaning dishes that long, you could literally run out of some cookware haha.

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u/brainonvacation78 Jan 15 '22

Nor should they when cooks make over min wage and servers make server wage. Pay me what a cook makes and then we can chat about splitting tips

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u/ScoopJr Jan 15 '22

Depends on the state.

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u/brainonvacation78 Jan 15 '22

We're talking about reality for the majority of the US. I'm a server (on the side, I have a solid M-F career but I also got a kid in college that I refuse to send out into the world saddled in debt plus I'm amazing at serving and love it) and I make $5+ hr plus tips. Without those tips, I wouldn't work as a server. I make $37/hr at my primary job. I make $20-$45/hr with tips serving. And if I don't, I won't work there anymore. I'm not running my ass off for you for under $20/hr. A "living wage" is NOT $15/hr. Those are still poverty wages. ESPECIALLY when supporting a family.

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u/Cerael Jan 15 '22

Your brain really is on vacation.

You type up that nonsense that isnt relevant, about your personal life. Your average take home per hour is certainly more than the cooks.

Youre just a shitty, selfish server. So what if the cooks are making $2 an hour over minimum wage when your take home is at least $20/hr on average.

Whats your tip percentage? Avg tables/hr?

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u/brainonvacation78 Jan 15 '22

Who fucking pissed in your Cheerios this morning?? My personal life is absofuckinglutely relevant based on this sub. I CAN'T SUPPORT MY FAMILY WITHOUT 2 SOLID INCOMES AND I ALREADY HAVE A FULL TIME JOB. Did you understand that at all?

Next: I make less than minimum wage based on the understanding that tips will make up for it. Cooks (not chefs, which is different) accept their hourly at hire. I tip out my expo, host and bartenders. Cooks tip out shit nada. My avg differs during the season. And I'm one of the most selfless humans ever and you can go fuck right off for attacking me. I'm sooooo selfish for working 2 jobs as as a single mom to help my kid avoid student loan debt lol. You're just a bitter Reddit shit poster and you can kick fucking rocks, sweetheart.

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u/Cerael Jan 15 '22

For someone claiming not to be selfish you said the word I a lot in that wall of text. Its okay to be selfish, but dont pretend youre not self serving

Ive personally gotten over 300k in unpaid back wages to employees at my restaurant, that they were being shorted on their checks.

I also regularly throw out entitled servers who are by the way, required by company policy to tip out other service positions (at every restaurant Ive worked at).

You dont know me and I dont know you, but the way youve acted in this thread is shameful.

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u/ScoopJr Jan 15 '22

I'm not talking about removing tipping. Some states pay 2.13$ per hour for serving and others pay state minimum wage and tips. The minimum wage likely isn't anywhere near livable especially in high cost of living areas.

It would be great for restaurants to pay cook wages to servers but they won't. Why would a cook become a cook if they can simply serve and make the same base pay except now with tips

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u/StayAtHomeAstronaut Jan 15 '22

Or cooks could just get paid more? You know, more inline with their actual worth in a restaurant.

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u/ScoopJr Jan 15 '22

Thats valid too. Cooks end up doing long grueling hours on the line and are there prior to restaurant open and there after restaurant close

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u/Violet624 Jan 15 '22

The cooks aren't doing more labor than the servers. I call between 10-12 miles a day at my job as a server, and that is just what my feet are doing. I agree line cooks are often underpaid, but serving is also difficult.

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u/Cerael Jan 15 '22

Want to see my step counter with regularly 8-12 miles (I admit on slower days its not as much). Not to mention standing in front of a hot grill, saut矇 station and fryers.

Ive done both at 30k+ volume a day restaurants and 15k a day restaurants and while they are both hard work, cooking high volume is more strenuous work.

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u/[deleted] Jan 15 '22

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u/poki_stick Jan 15 '22

Min wage for tipped jobs is 2.13 or so an hr bit 7.50

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u/seanarturo Jan 15 '22

Its still $7.50 unless the tips push them higher. Otherwise the restaurant has to pay whatever the difference is to get the wait staff to $7.50.

CA and 8 other states dont even have a tipping wage. They pay the same minimum wage as other jobs.

We really need to abolish tipping wage federally. Thats the only way wait staff pay will ever increase.

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u/Wordwench Jan 15 '22

He means about $2 an hour and not 7.50.

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u/Am-i-old-yet Jan 15 '22

Some states allow you to pay servers less than minimum wage as long as their tips work out to them being paid more than minimum wage.

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u/Zen142 Jan 15 '22

If you're a waitress/waiter you're minimum wage is $4.35 and sometimes lower, and doesn't include any tips

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u/DONSEANOVANN Jan 15 '22

In all the states I've been in, $2.13 was the pay for servers.

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u/Professional-Ad7857 Jan 15 '22

Tipped minimum wage is $2.83. The server needs to claim at least the $4.42 per hour difference. Also the margins at a restaurant are typically 5%. Possibly 10%. The math from OP is missing a lot of expenses. Insurance, taxes margins are tight, but maybe if you cant afford to pay people right and pay your bills you have failed. If the server is not making enough tips to make it up the employer is obligated to take care of it. That being said as a 20 year bartender in a mid size American city I regularly make 300-500 per night. If we got rid of tipping in the states it would be a pay cut for many servers/bartenders. That being said, everyone in the front of the house knows that we are getting away with something. Cooks deserve more. That shit is hard.

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u/Abbaddonhope Jan 15 '22

Hes assuming the waitress is working 5-6 hours

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u/awwstin_n Jan 15 '22

Federal minimum wage for tipped employees is $2.13/hr. State minimum wage varies. In California, tipped employees usually share the same minimum wage as other non-tipped employees. In Texas, most restaurants offer the federal $2.13/hr.

A night shift is 6 hours, not 8, usually 4pm to 10pm. So $14 * 6 is $84.

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u/RTLIVIN Jan 15 '22

Where do you live that a full 8 hour shift is only 12$? Im genuinely curious

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u/habitat11 Jan 15 '22

America? That's the wages of servers in America. They are allowed to be paid under minimum wage bcz of tips, if they don't make the federal minimum wage with their tips the employer has to pay them the federal minimum wage at least.

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u/[deleted] Jan 15 '22

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u/habitat11 Jan 15 '22

We're clearly talking about the states that don't

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u/CorporateStef Jan 15 '22

That's insane, I worked in a restaurant in the UK, probably a bit "higher class" where we would serve around 130 tables on a really busy night 6-10 o clock with 5 in the kitchen and about 10 out front and that was pretty hard work allowing 2 people to do double that is ridiculous and then having the nerve to not even pay them yourself.

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u/Turbulent_Salary1698 Jan 15 '22

Honestly, low wage workers everywhere work harder than they get paid for.

Waiters/waitresses get paid minimum wage no matter what, with the bonus of a tip that can add up depending where you work.

On the other hand, people who work at low end restaurants without many tips, or fast food workers, or retail employees, all make minimum wage. Obviously they all work hard, and they all deserve more pay imo.

We may never end tipped wage because plenty of waiters/waitresses would rather not.

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u/Glad_Confusion_6934 Jan 15 '22

Charge more for your food then and pass the buck onto the server

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u/retropieproblems Jan 15 '22

I think the reality is a huge amount of restaurants are basically always under threat of going under or arent profitable. So without tipping a lot of smaller restaurants probably fail. I hate tipping culture too but damn its tricky.

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u/InitialRadish Jan 15 '22

Money

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u/crewchief535 Jan 15 '22

Greed.

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u/rbergs215 Jan 15 '22

Corruption

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u/Valiant_Boss Jan 15 '22

Capitalism

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u/Shred_Flanderz Jan 15 '22

Lust

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u/[deleted] Jan 15 '22 edited Jan 18 '22

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u/Euphoric_Bumblebee92 Jan 15 '22

Steve

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u/Rahbin_Banx Jan 15 '22

Gummy bears

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u/sgreadly Jan 15 '22 edited Jan 15 '22

All of which are American dreams.

All of which are American dreams.

All of which are American dreams,

All of which; Are American; dreams!

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u/Castr8orr Jan 15 '22

Damn, came her to say exactly this

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u/TheSportingRooster Jan 15 '22

Advertising, if the menu prices were 20% higher the competition would come up with tipping so their prices would look lower.

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u/AliBarberTheSecond Jan 15 '22

But that's not how the real world works outside of the US.

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u/Thillidan Jan 15 '22

EXACTLY THIS. We dont have tipping in Australia. we have a minimum wage that can afford to work 40hrs weeks and live.

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u/ESP-23 Jan 15 '22

Because States like Texas can pay their servers $2.13 an hour

It's oppression plain and simple

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u/Spidaaman Jan 15 '22

lol its not just Texas.

Google the National Restaurant Association. Also google the federal tipped minimum wage.

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u/Appropriate-Creme335 Jan 15 '22

This sounds absolutely crazy to me. Why on earth would any government have an actually regulated untaxed income, than increase minimum wage and receive more taxes from the same money. The more I learn about US the less I understand where is this whole "best country in the world" discourse coming from.

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u/Dingis_Dang Jan 15 '22

It's the best country at making everyone think it is the best country.

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u/Turbulent_Salary1698 Jan 15 '22

No, Texas restaurants have a base pay of $2.13, but is required to make up the difference if tips don't.

If everyone stopped tipping, restaurants would be paying minimum wage. Servers should make more than minimum wage, but so should everyone else on minimum wage.

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u/peesonearth93 Jan 15 '22

There's states that don't have server wages?

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u/777shark Jan 15 '22

California has no server wage.

A server has to be paid by the employer at least state minimum of $14 or $15 depending on employer size, and tips can't be used as part of the servers wage.

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u/morphinedreams Jan 15 '22

California needs to just secede already, they're closer to developed countries than they are to the rest of the US.

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u/Rosita_La_Lolita Jan 15 '22

Believe me, wed love to.

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u/Dingis_Dang Jan 15 '22

Minnesota doesn't have one. Restaurant workers make the state or city minimum wage. The National Restaurant Association really hates when states don't have a tip penalty and lobbies heavily in those states but it's holding true for now.

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u/Andre4kthegreengiant Jan 15 '22

They can't if their tips don't average them out to federal minimum wage

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u/BananafestDestiny Jan 15 '22

Because States like Texas can pay their servers $2.13 an hour

This is tautological though. The reason minimum wage is lower for servers is because of tips.

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u/CanuckExpat890 Jan 15 '22

Is this an exaggeration or is $2.13 a real figure there?

I really hope thats an exaggeration.

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u/2Thomases Jan 15 '22

That's the federal minimum wage for tipped employees. After tips are added, if the employee is making less than minimum wage, the employer must pay the difference.

So servers will always make at least regular minimum wage, some if it directly through a wage, some of it through tips

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u/SimulatedHumanity Jan 15 '22

I cleared $60,000 a year waiting tables and bartending when I was only getting paid $2.13 an hour. You couldnt force me to go to an hourly rate back then.

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u/Stoned-Antlers Jan 15 '22

I use to make $30 an hour waiting tables尖all are literally trying to get us paid less crying about this.

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u/Sun_BeamsLovesMelts Jan 15 '22

While I agree, and try to tip in cash so you can decide how you want to handle it....

You also lack any benefits. Low deductible insurance, paid time off, a good 401k.

Those things can add up to 10-20 dollar an hour in my book.

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u/oxwearingsocks Jan 15 '22

Get off that mindset that its the public who need to stump up extra. Its not us that should be boosting you to $30/hr. You should be getting a decent pay from your employer, not the generosity of strangers.

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u/Honestbabe2021 Jan 15 '22

This! I agree some make more w this model but there should be a law where they leave the shift w no less than xyz. Everyone bitches about texas but all the places I see offer 12-19/hour. The salad place pays 15/hour.

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u/Lo2us Jan 15 '22

Think we are gonna need details here.

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u/Whiterabbit-- Jan 15 '22

he gets tips. and a few tables easily gets you $30/hr. the hourly pay doesn't even matter. say you wait on 3 tables an hour. cheap restaurant. you get $10 tip/table. $30 easy.

tipping is a great for waiters bad for cooks and other support staff.

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u/dgl7c4 Jan 15 '22

My partner has been a server for years. I make 50k/year and she often brings home the same amount of money or more than I do each month. I completely agree that tip culture is stupid as fuck, and a lot of people barely scrape by in that industry, but there are also people who benefit greatly. Theres no way in hell that a livable wage would come close to what shes making off of tips. Im not trying to justify it but I also think its a tough issue to tackle when a lot of servers would prefer it stays the same than to make ~15/hr.

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u/dangoodspeed Jan 15 '22

What about getting $15/hour and still accepting tips for superb service, but not expecting tips... especially to the point that someone's considered an asshole for not tipping?

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u/Shopped_For_Pleasure Jan 15 '22

Or getting paid a salary reflective of what the service is worth like any other job.

If its a high end restaurant, pay them like $30 an hour or some shit. Lower end, idk $20?

Tipping is so fucking stupid. Its not expected in any other industry because your doing exactly what youre paid to do. I dont understand why handing orders to patrons is more special than the chef who made the meal and keeps the kitchen area sanitary, or the hostess who seats and organizes the place, or anything else. Hell, Id say cleaning the place is probably one of the more difficult jobs in the restaurant and its probably paid the least.

Also, ironically, the best places to eat are always the places that refuse tipping. Theres a few great places in New York that refuse your tip, and it goes without saying the same thing goes for European countries (although tipping is becoming more popular as companies begin to use American software that has tipping preloaded) and especially Japan. They all have been much more attentive and appreciative than anywhere that expects a tip.

Tipping is by far the most stupid obligation.

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u/stilljustacatinacage Jan 15 '22 Helpful

This has long been my position on it as well, especially against the "we can pay a living wage and have tips!" nonsense.

I 100% support thriving wages for everyone, but tip culture is so toxic and transparent for what it really is: a way to condition the workers to endorse their own exploitation.

As others have said, tipped workers can make good money, better than any minimum wage hike will allow; so while many will support an increase to minimum wage, they'd never support the abolishment of tipping. It's too lucrative.

Meanwhile the gas station attendant, who is expected to be every bit as personable, on their feet, fetch goods for customers, process purchases, clean the store, stock the shelves... Well I guess they should have gotten a job at the restaurant across the street instead.

It's dumb. I hate it, but mostly I'm tired of customers and servers alike happily dancing along to the Pied Piper's tune.

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u/Wheelchairpussy Jan 15 '22

High end restaurant wait staff dont work any harder than low end for the most part though

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u/kentonbryantmusic Jan 15 '22

Buddy serves at a high end restaurant in nashville. Makes 100k serving. He wouldnt trade it for base wage.

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u/skynetnord Jan 15 '22

Since covered since nobody wants to work we have seen wait staff up to $40 to $50 an hour here, people need to pay what people deserve or they won't go to work that's what's happening here in Australia, I don't know about there...

Yep tipping is stupid, how a person that acts on a day or what they look like or what they can say to a person eating the food they bring them should have nothing to do with how much they get paid..... Pay people what they deserve without tips!

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u/[deleted] Jan 15 '22

I stopped tipping years ago. It's not my responsibility to supplement their salary.

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u/OrvilleCaptain Jan 15 '22

A waiter at Red Robin already makes $30-$40/hr with tip. At a fine dining restaurant they make anywhere between $80-$300/hr. They are usually well compensated despite their compensation structure.

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u/No-Enthusiasm-2145 Jan 15 '22

You're describing the rest of the world, and it works better yes. Though hospitality could do with better money where I live too. It's kind 8f just seen as 'transitional' work that people aren't doing as a career. Which is really unfortunate for those that do actually enjoy it.

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u/JackRakeWrites Jan 15 '22

Its like that here in the Uk. Waiting staff are paid the minimum wage, tips are socially discretionary but generally happen. Some places split all tips between all the waiting and kitchen staff. We have an issues with some restaurants keeping tips if paid via card, so I always give cash.

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u/nikstick22 Jan 15 '22

tipping culture in America is absolutely a horrible structure. Women drastically outperform men on tips but in return are subjected to a lot of sexual harassment (this has been proven by many studies). It creates a system where employees compete for prime tip hours (the morning shift on a Wednesday is gonna make you next to nothing). Because tipping is considered necessary nearly ubiquitously, the price of dining is basically 15-25% higher nationally but a significant portion of the wages of the servers are incredibly unstable and while some people do make good money, for each of those there's at least one person who is screwed over.

If you have enough money to pay two people a liveable wage, but instead you pay one person 10% more and the other 10% less, I think you've created a massive net deficit to society.

One person makes a little extra than the bare minimum they need, but the other is fucking screwed.

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u/Aegi Jan 15 '22

I think you mean young women, because while it might still apply for all ages, older women who have families are much more likely to be forced into working breakfast and lunch when their kids are at school and even though theyre working as hard or harder than the people at night who only have a six hour shift instead of an eight hour shift, because their tips are so much lower theyre taking less home even though theyre the ones with the family to support, or they get to potentially increase the chances that their kids are latchkey kids by taking the more lucrative shift after hours.

Regardless, until we put some sources in our comments were both just vomiting words onto our keyboards.

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u/JakJako90 Jan 15 '22

The gender thing is so true! We had a girl working for us when we accepted tips in the bowling center I worked in, and she could get in 40-50 in a weekend (tips not expected), while I would see maybe 20. I was as polite, faster working, also worked as the mechanic so I sorted out all issues in the back in seconds. I did not earn 30 more over the weekend because of higher pay, so in essence I got less money for doing a better job. But we then swapped to a new system with a card terminal connected to the POS so tips were removed altogether except cash, which was maybe 30% of the bowling centers income. During corona it's been at 90-95% card usage.

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u/post_pudding Jan 15 '22

Its not like tips stop if the wages go up tho, people will probably still tip for good service

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u/Penny_D Jan 15 '22

Wouldn't it be nice if tips were a special bonus rather than required to survive?

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u/absolutezombie Jan 15 '22

This. This should be the answer. It SHOULDN'T BE REQUIRED FOR THE PATRON TO SUBSIDIZE THE WORKERS PAY. The business should pay them a fair wage, tips should be appreciated.

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u/skynetnord Jan 15 '22

This is how it is in Australia, As a dish washer in a cafe and the waitresses and I shared the tips given equally once a week as you said as a bonus佞

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u/LowPath448 Jan 15 '22

Thats how it started I think.

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u/stewy9020 Jan 15 '22 edited Jan 15 '22

Nope. I mean it was probably around but the "tipping culture" in the US started because big companies wanted a way to pay ex slaves fuck all once slavery became illegal.

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u/TomFoolery22 Jan 15 '22 edited Jan 15 '22

Actually it started as racism. I'm not even kidding.

Tipping in the U.S. really took off after slavery was abolished and was a way to supplement white workers pay while getting away with paying black people next to nothing.

https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2019/07/17/william-barber-tipping-racist-past-227361/

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u/hope2Bsingle Jan 15 '22

There are some restaurants that have an official no tipping policy because they pay a living wage.

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u/[deleted] Jan 15 '22

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u/theonioncollector Jan 15 '22

I believe thats a federal mandate, but then you run into the fact that the US minimum wage is not a livable one

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u/post_pudding Jan 15 '22

Not like they're going to fire a server bc someone slips them a 20

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u/hope2Bsingle Jan 15 '22

If the restaurant policy is to refuse tips and you don't, absolutely you'll be fired. Maybe not the first time, but if you keep doing it...

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u/TequilaAndJazz Jan 15 '22

Well fuck that company then

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u/[deleted] Jan 15 '22

Yeah and they pay their servers allt less than what I make a single night waiting tables. A living wage will never compare to my tipped one.

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u/According_Gazelle472 Jan 15 '22

I have actually gone to places like this and it so refreshing not to have to deal with this nonsense. Yes,they do exist and yes,they are not fast food either.

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u/Tefloncon Jan 15 '22

Where is the sense in that? Wouldnt you just pay them and say tips arent necessary, but still allow them to be if the customer chooses?

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u/AliBarberTheSecond Jan 15 '22

Can confirm I get tips in a non tip culture for doing a good job.

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u/post_pudding Jan 15 '22

I used to do high end weddings and events lighting, and the one time these giggarich 20somthings had a wedding and while we were striking it they came over with a box of like 20 handles of booze they couldn't fit in their car and gave them to us. Best tip ever lol

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u/littleking15 Jan 15 '22

This is true, I work in a restaurant in Canada and we pay our servers 15 dollars an hour plus they still get tips they make good money.

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u/skynetnord Jan 15 '22

Just like in Australia 佞綾 isn't it nice when your country looks after you a little?

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u/SuperSpeshBaby Jan 15 '22

In California servers make $14/hr (our current minimum wage) and tipping is the same here as everywhere else.

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u/post_pudding Jan 15 '22

I live in California too and 14 is straight up homeless wages in a lot of places tho

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u/SuperSpeshBaby Jan 15 '22

Yeah but it's minimum wage. In some other states servers make $2.13/hour, so they're way more dependent on tips than servers in California to even reach their state's (much lower) minimum wage.

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u/post_pudding Jan 15 '22

Woah... that's so bad...

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u/John_Browns_Body59 Jan 15 '22

Yeah but the servers are making more than the cooks and everyone else at the restaurant, yet no one talks about them lmao

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u/post_pudding Jan 15 '22

Idk what you want me to say, minimum wage = homeless in a lot of places

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u/dgl7c4 Jan 15 '22

Yeah thats a good point.

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u/pygmy_lucifer Jan 15 '22

But it wont be implied you have to. Ive had some pretty bad service before but still feel forced to tip when I receive the bill cause its right there in percentages on it. A tip should be a little extra for somebody doing a good job, not for having a job that doesnt pay enough. Im a mechanic and receive tips from time to time. I appreciate the compliment more than the money. I tipped an Amazon driver the other day $20, finally caught one in the act. Those guys do a great job

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u/No-Improvement-8205 Jan 15 '22

Also without haveing any first hand knowledge on the topic, I'd say thoose who are making big buck on tipping is working in some kind of "finedining/higher establishment" people in thoose jobs usually tend to get alot of tips even in a culture where tipping isnt really a part of it, so it might not even be that bad for them if the bottom get raised and tipping disappears

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u/BrideofClippy Jan 15 '22

Nope. I am sure they make good money, but you can still make very good money at an average restaurant too. But it is easier to be in a bad situation like stuck on slump shifts or getting minimal tables.

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u/Tots795 Jan 15 '22

Yes for awhile, but eventually people will stop.

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u/Minute_Minimum_149 Jan 15 '22

I wouldn't tip if wages went up. Hell I don't tip as it is

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u/Kalamath666 Jan 15 '22

I knew servers/bartenders at at restaurant I used to work at raking in a comfortable six figures. Some people would definitely fight losing their tips. The range of what you can make is too wide so there's always going to be resistance no matter the direction you go.

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u/DiceyWater Jan 15 '22

I really hate this argument. It's usually heavily regional, a minority of servers, and it boils down to "I'm getting mine, so fuck anyone else." All it does is keep the boss happy.

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u/CIassic_Ghost Jan 15 '22 edited Jan 15 '22

And the reason they make 6 figures is because the establishment charges insane prices. $18 cocktails and $30 appetizers are common in my city. Minimum 20% gratuity on a $200 tab (2 drinks and an entree each) adds up really quick.

Minimum wage is $12.50/hr. That means our server makes roughly $52.50/hr for just our table alone and were subsidizing 75% of it. Restaurant business is a friggin racket

No disrespect to servers/bartenders

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u/OrvilleCaptain Jan 15 '22

As a datapoint all restaurants in my area that offered a living wage and refused tips went out of business. All the waiters in the area just preferred tips over a stable living wage. So I think this sentiment is more majority than minority.

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u/MRK-01 Jan 15 '22

Servers that make 100k+ are in the minority and they can get fucked for the benefit of the majority

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u/ScheduleExpress Jan 15 '22

Does she tip out the kitchen?

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u/A_Young_Kirk_Cameron Jan 15 '22

My sister is in the service industry and is one of the people who are very pro tip for the reasons you mentioned. Im not sure where the idea that the patrons are against serves being paid a flat wage or that were against paying higher prices for food.

I already assume when I go out Ill be adding at least 20% when the bill comes due.

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u/r4tch3t_ Jan 15 '22

I'm from New Zealand. I worked in a bar briefly. There were still plenty of tips, especially if you were serving the rich dudes who liked to flaunt their cash. Plus plenty of people who will just hand you a note for the drinks and walk away. Adds up over the night.

While I could never make as much as your partner I wouldn't want it to be that way, it would feel like I'm taking that money from 1000 other people not lucky enough to work in a fancy place.

On the other hand I've also turned down a $100 tip from an American tourist. I was on coat check, she had just arrived in the country and comes in for a drink hands me her jacket and opens her purse to tip she only had the largest notes and was visably uncomfortable thinking she was obliged to tip and had no suitable cash. I informed her that we get paid a proper wage and tips are for exceptional service, not expected. Hope I made her holiday that much better knowing that prices are inclusive of tax and service here.

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u/[deleted] Jan 15 '22 edited Feb 17 '22

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u/Quik_17 Jan 15 '22

I dont know a single server that makes less than minimum wage. Have the people advocating to remove tipping culture ever actually worked as a server?

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u/[deleted] Jan 15 '22

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u/eliasronaldo Jan 15 '22

I wish I could upvote this a trillion times but Im 86 on the upvotes

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u/DreamedJewel58 Jan 15 '22

Many waitresses would lose a lot of money if they were only paid wages instead of tips (even if the minimum wage was raised to $15)

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u/childhoodsurvivor Jan 15 '22

Here's the deal with that. Tips are unstable. You admit this yourself when you say only some benefit greatly. You've also admitted that there are plenty of service workers who live under the poverty line (this is factual, look it up) when you say many "barely scrape by".

Also though, this is not just a wage issue. This is also a HOSTILE WORK ENVIRONMENT issue. Tipping creates increased instances of harassment and sexual harassment. No worker should have to face any type of harassment at their job.

If we actually want robust worker's rights and a living wage in this country then tipping must be abolish. It is, after all, a vestige of slavery. (Tipping began because employers did not want to pay formerly enslaved persons so they allowed them to "work for tips" instead.)

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u/Quik_17 Jan 15 '22

Exactly this. My sister in law cleans up as a waitress and if she was getting paid minimum wage instead with minimal tips, her income would drop in half. The people getting screwed over with tipping culture are the customers, not the employees.

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u/lawless636 Jan 15 '22

If I made minimum wage I would never fucking be a server in 1 million years

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u/redditorwithoutanam Jan 15 '22

Facts. The only reason anyone puts up with that shit is for the tips.

Nobody is working a Friday or Saturday night until close for minimum wage.

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u/butinthewhat Jan 15 '22 edited Jan 15 '22

That depends on where you work. Your partners experience is not the norm. Also, $50k a year is barely a living wage (edit) depending on where you are. I thought that was clear from the first sentence but I guess it was not. My apologies.

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u/BigWithABrick Jan 15 '22

Also depends on who you are. Iirc, POC often get less money out of tip dependent jobs than their white counterparts.

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u/butinthewhat Jan 15 '22

Yes, thank you for adding that. Working for tips isnt an across the board thing. And why do we think any servers shouldnt make good money? They provide an important service and Id be cool with $15 plus tips.

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u/RedditWillSlowlyDie Jan 15 '22

$50K is $24 an hours. That's a pretty good wage for most of the country outside of major cities.

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u/MasterPimpinMcGreedy Jan 15 '22

If I made 50k a year where I live and continued living the exact same lifestyle (which is extremely comfortable already) Id be saving up to an additional $1,400 a month. What is livable depends on where you live.

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u/Bigl195 Jan 15 '22

Tipping originated from slavery! After the slaves were freed the main jobs African Americans in the city could get were waiters/waitress. Racist white people did not want to pay them a live able wage after having their labor for free for so many centurys. So they created the tipping system for service workers because they considered all service work to be unskilled. They never changed the system. A lot of people dont know the truth.

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u/svel Jan 15 '22

it did not.

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u/ChristopherRobben Jan 15 '22

This is partially false, there is a lot of context and history to be understood.

Tipping is an export from Europe and found its origin in the United States due to the hotel industry, not from slavery. This stemmed from how hotels priced room rates. The popular system for hotels in the 1800s was the American Plan, where the cost of a hotel room included a meal or meal(s), whereas the European system, which was beginning to gain popularity, had meals not included and priced separately as well.

Tipping was not especially common with the American Plan as it was seen by hoteliers as a bribe for staff to give away more food when they were already operating at a loss in the dining room. The European plan made it more enticing: not only was dining profitable, but hoteliers could supplement wages with tips and keep more profit when they knew food pricing was already set. This was at a time when American hotel staff were relatively well paid, but this practice quickly expanded to other industries and effected pay across the board from top to bottom.

Now, tipping DID become a lot more widespread in the US due to slavery. There was a lot of anti-sentiment towards it and it was nearly eliminated in the US, but industries such as the railroad lobbied for its approval federally because they could save on wages, particularly when they had many black workers. This is what cemented its stay; employers were happy to be able to pay a lower wage when tips made up the difference.

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u/_Revlak_ Jan 15 '22

Because restaurants can't afford to loss any profits. Also people think that it's ok they get paid like this so the business stays open. Most people don't understand that if a business can't afford to pay then they can't afford to stay open.

A business is a investment not a guarantee money-maker. It's a risk

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u/MashingPotatoes1 Jan 15 '22

Millions of restaurants world wide outside of the US are able to pay their workers a wage and remain open. If a business can't stay open without paying their workers a reasonable wage, the owner shouldn't be running a business.

Remove mandatory tipping, put the equivalent tip price into the cost of each meal and then use that money to pay workers a wage.

Customers won't pay any more or less than they would have if they tipped, and the workers get a guaranteed income.

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u/MaroonSiesLessUno Jan 15 '22

Some restaurants have banned tipping and have priced their food accordingly. The service at those restaurants are sometimes better, because theres a correlation between repeat business and ensuring the customer is happy. Also, it voided any need for the customer to do any math at the end of the meal.

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u/ThyShirtIsBlue Jan 15 '22

So we think we're getting a better deal on our food, making us more likely to spend more. It also takes the onus of your servers' livability off of the restaurant owners.

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u/Mothringer Jan 15 '22

It's an outgrowth of slavery. The culture of paying restaurant workers primarily with tips originated in the south immediately after the civil war as way for restaurant owners to avoid having to pay their newly freed waitstaff.

So like a lot of weird stuff in the US it really comes back to racism in the end.

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u/Flower_Unable Jan 15 '22

Because businesses are in power and they want to shift business risk to employees.

Slow night for the business? Employees problem with lower tips.

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u/Relevant_Ad3070 Jan 15 '22

Many dont want tipping to go away. In a couple states some do earn a little more than minimum wage + tips. The main argument Ive seen why they dont want to get paid minimum wage is because they wont make as much money as the do now. Its because they benefit greatly from people feeling bad and tipping them 20%. So many will complain about not earning a livable wage but then brag about how much they earn. Its confusing

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u/jimmyjrsickmoves Jan 15 '22

I was just talking about serving with my better half. Their restaurant pays servers 12 an hour but has to tell the wait staff that if they see a pay check then they must be doing something wrong. I told her that if the servers were paid 12 bucks an hour and then got to keep their tips then there would be no server shortages. Though, I agree that restaurants should have to pay an hourly wage instead of passing the cost of business off to patrons. Kind of sucks that the American restaurant industry cemented the business model in place. I remember being told that I was basically an independent contractor by a manager but he didn't have a response when I asked if I could have a contract drawn up and change my tax status.

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u/Toasty_Jones Jan 15 '22 edited Jan 15 '22

I got yelled at by an online Black Jack dealer for not tipping enough. I thought $25 was plenty considering Id been down all night.

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u/Trolli-lolli Jan 15 '22

How do you have an online BJ dealer? I thought you needed a warm mouth for that...

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u/Anon3992343 Anarcho-NEET Jan 15 '22

Blow job dealer?!?!!

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u/kolossal Jan 15 '22

Because when they get tipped like they "should" they bring in a lot of untaxed money.

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u/Puglady25 Jan 15 '22

Not anymore. With most tips being on credit cards, all of those must be claimed. I have known servers who were audited. Meanwhile, the billionaire class gets away with everything.

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u/TheNumbOne Jan 15 '22

I completely understand that argument, however I tend to feel the converse. This is the one area where you can have a direct influence on how much someone is paid, and yet people complain about it. I feel like I don't have the right to complain about my pay, if I go into a restaurant - knowing the current system causes them to rely on my tip - and then not paying.

That being said there is certainly a case to be made for the problem being the system itself. But, in this particular case they know the system and chose to eat out. So long as the current system is in place, it should be understood that you have to calculate a tip into the equation of whether or not you can afford to eat out.

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u/seanarturo Jan 15 '22

The system is the exact thing that lets them not tip. They do understand the system, and in the system of tipping wages, they have every option to refuse to pay the wages of the waiter for a dinner out. The system basically allows some people to exploit it in order to get more expensive or cheaper meals.

Thats why tipping wage needs to be abolished.

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u/ThunderousOrgasm Jan 15 '22

Because the servers like the tipping culture and if they pretend otherwise they are liars.

Look at the shit eating grins in this topic as they masquerade as Antiwork, with the hand waving well what can you do thats the American way, ask the government to change the laws.

These people make way more than the minimum wage customers they server, thanks to the toxic tipping culture, but then bemoan being poor. Even in the U.K., which definitely does not have a tipping culture, I know wait staff making 瞿100 a night in tips, untaxed, on top of their wage.

If people are earning this amount in the U.K., then the US wait staff must be earning serious money from tips. Certainly more than the customers they server who they bitch about for not giving them money and subsidising them.

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u/regrettibaguetti Jan 15 '22

As someone who lives in the us, no. Sure some people get really good tips, and then sometimes you make 2 dollars an hour all night. Nobody's arguing for paying tip workers minimum wage, we want them payed a good living wage.

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