r/antiwork Jan 14 '22 Silver 5 Helpful 16 Wholesome 10

So sorry, I'm broke so I can only pay you $77 for my food. You were great though.

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316

u/Joga212 Jan 15 '22

As a fellow Brit I agree.

This subreddit never fails to shock me when they always continuously get mad at the customer, rather than the employer. It defeats the whole purpose of the subreddit.

I genuinely think they all secretly deep down want the tipping culture to stay because it more or less benefits everyone bar the customer.

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u/jacksonmills Jan 15 '22 edited Jan 15 '22 Silver

Yes, it does benefit mostly everyone but the customer, but in the end, it ends up hurting the profession as a whole.

My sister works in food service; she's been a waitress, bartender, bar manager, and restaurant manager.

The real appeal of tipping culture for people who are servers is, if you are good at it and find the right job, you can make several hundred dollars in a night on top of your "actual" wages, in cash, that you take home that night.

When my sister went from waitress to bar/restaurant manager, she actually liked it less because while she was pulling in more money over the entire year, her employees were able to work less (4 shifts a week) and make about 80% of her pay (working 6 days a week).

Granted, she had benefits, but mostly just health insurance (just medical + dental, no 401k/short term disability/or even vision). After paying that out, she was barely making more money than a server. Also, she wasn't getting money every day. She only got it at the end of every two weeks.

Eventually she just went back to being a server because she had the pull/seniority at the restaurant to work the "good nights" (Th/Fri/Sat/Sun, sometimes Monday during football season), never cared about having health insurance, and could work four days a week instead of six. Also, always having cash on hand felt a lot better.

On extremely good days, especially during Christmas/NYE/Holidays/the peak of summer, she'd make even more money than she would during the normal work year, so she could work even less and still end up saving money/making more money than she did during the "regular" times.

The employer benefits because they don't have to pay their staff anything more than a few dollars an hour - the server benefits because in a good situation, they can make hundreds of dollars a day, and they can work a little less than normal.

In the end everyone deserves a living wage, and to not work themselves to death. I firmly believe in a 4 day week/32 hour work week. But the system as it exists, ends up hurting people who don't directly benefit from it. Not only the customer, but it ends up creating dynamics in the restaurant industry that make it harder for restaurants to succeed. If you have a few bad weeks, you could see half your trained staff walk because they are no longer making the money they expect from tips. People who work at restaurants that aren't doing well or don't have the political capital to get good shifts at ones that are end up making shitty wages and struggle.

And of course, if you get a string of Karens/Kens, you could see jack shit for a night and end up getting fired because a lot of employers look at tip amount as a performance report.

It doesn't help the whole. In the end, we should have a fair, livable working wage for every industry; not just food service, but also agriculture (which is another industry, that for some fucking stupid reason, is allowed to pay far less than other businesses)

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u/RockyHorrorGoldfinch Jan 15 '22

As a Brit, I'm curious whether tips have to be declared when doing tax returns?

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u/sortaangrypeanut Jan 15 '22

As an American, two things can be true:

  • Tipping culture is absolutely horrible here. The fact that a waiter has to rely on tips to even barely scrape by is horrible. Employers should be held responsible for living wages, not the customer, and the customer should not have to give more than their bill says

  • Right now, waiters are legally paid less than minimum wage due to the assumption that they make up to a minimum wage with tips factored in. They depend on tips to scrape by. As it is right now, when you pay for food at a restaurant, you are only paying for the cooks, the bosses, and partially for the waitress's services. A tip is what pays for the rest of its services, so you should tip until it changes

The way tipping culture sucks doesn't change the fact that a waiter needs them to pay rent. You're only hurting your waiter when you don't tip. I don't know this person's circumstances, and I won't assume anything off a $77 order. I assume they're not homeless cuz they're paying with a card. So I think that, even if you're broke and get to treat yourself once a year, you should factor at least like idk $5 into what you're going to spend as a tip.

It's insulting to me that you think we want tipping culture to stay. We don't want it to stay, but individuals choosing to not tip isn't "sticking it to the man". It's not changing anything. If they can afford to tip and they don't, knowing that this is how waiters have to make a living, they're just a dick, man.

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u/mteej Jan 15 '22

what i don't understand is how i, as the customer, becomes responsible for the restaurants overheads? like shouldn't that be a fixed cost of running a business? why is that a cost customers absorb? these are genuine questions because i just don't understand

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u/sortaangrypeanut Jan 15 '22

It sucks, and it's not right. Tipping culture needs to end, waiters need to unionize and strike, and it needs to change. The answers to your questions are because bosses are greedy. They want to make as much money in their wallets as possible. They hate minimum wage workers and think "hey, these minimum wage workers are technically making more than minimum wage due to a completely optional custom! We should account for that by allowing them to be paid as low as 50% of minimum wage! Unskilled workers don't deserve to make that much!"

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u/TroutCuck Jan 15 '22

Do waiters want it to change? All the ones I've known make significantly better money than me in my area on average.

1

u/moldy_minge Jan 15 '22

They do not in my town, or the surrounding towns. Larger cities have the possibility to make good money serving. I don't have any numbers but I'm sure if you factor in servers that work in smaller communities it would bring the average income of a server down to regular minimum wage.

3

u/TroutCuck Jan 15 '22

It would be a bit higher than minimum wage because minimum wage is still the minimum after tips. Employer does have to make up the difference if that happens.

(Not counting cases of wage theft because they don't really impact discussion of the law when they're not following it anyway)

5

u/mteej Jan 15 '22

these companies are really taking advantage of the poverty cycle so many people find themselves in

0

u/microslasher Jan 15 '22

If you don't support the idea as the customer making up the change, then should you just stop going to restaurants that support tipping thereby not contributing to the employer screwing over the employee or do you continue to go to these restaurants that support tipping and just not tip screwing over the employee?

3

u/byram Jan 15 '22

Can't believe this is downvoted - this is the only choice the consumer has that directly impacts the business owner.

4

u/fanatic1123 Jan 15 '22

It should but that's not how it works and not tipping doesn't make you a hero rebel

2

u/sbNXBbcUaDQfHLVUeyLx Jan 15 '22

The customer absorbs it anyway. If they start paying all servers a living wage and ban tips, your menu prices will go up and you'll end up paying more overall. The money doesn't just magically appear to increase wages. It gets factored into the cost of the good being sold.

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u/Far-Phrase-4690 Jan 15 '22

First, servers should be paid a lot more than they currently are however if your hourly wage + tipped wage doesn’t equal the minimum wage, the employer is required to pay the server until their wage is the minimum wage. So servers aren’t paid less than minimum

4

u/Ellie__1 Jan 15 '22

That's the law, yes. In practice, this doesn't happen. Servers are paid less than minimum all the time.

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u/Far-Phrase-4690 Jan 15 '22

So we should fix that. Because tipping doesn’t stop an employer from taking the tips which happens as well. Many illegal things happen in practice

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u/Ellie__1 Jan 15 '22

Of course we should fix that, but you should know, if someone doesn't tip a server, it's very unlikely that the restaurant is going to clock that and make up the difference.

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u/Far-Phrase-4690 Jan 15 '22

I would argue the server should then take out a loan or use their own money if they have the means to sue the restaurant. But that’s beside the point. An employer can just take tips so what’s the solution here

2

u/Ellie__1 Jan 15 '22

You're right, anything is possible.

The most likely scenario, by far, when you tip a server is that the server gets this money (after tipping out to the hostess and other staff). Employers stealing tips does happen, but it's uncommon.

The most likely scenario, by far, when you don't tip a server is that they don't get anything. Employers reimbursing servers that fall below the minimum might happen, but it's uncommon.

-1

u/Far-Phrase-4690 Jan 15 '22

Do you have stats that show stealing tips is less common than not adding the wage to equal minimum?

0

u/insertnamehere02 Jan 15 '22

You clearly don't understand how it works. Please exit the argument, as you have no place in this debate. 👋🏻

1

u/DL_ Jan 15 '22

I refuse to believe this. If they don't pay up they face many penalties. And there's a fucking paper trail with paystubs so its easy to prove.

1

u/Ellie__1 Jan 15 '22 edited Jan 15 '22

Okkkk then 🙋🏻‍♀️

Edited to add: where on a paystub do you think tips go?

1

u/DL_ Jan 15 '22

I assume there's a line item called tips or something. What's your point?

0

u/Ellie__1 Jan 15 '22

Tips don't go on paystubs.

0

u/DL_ Jan 15 '22

If they don't then what are they basing the tax deductions and other things off of?

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u/Ellie__1 Jan 15 '22

Their paid wages. Restaurant workers are expected to self-report tipped income on their W2s.

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u/sortaangrypeanut Jan 15 '22

This I did not know, actually. Lemme search this up rq. Sorry for my ignorance if you're right

1

u/Far-Phrase-4690 Jan 15 '22

I think it’s in all states in the US but I could be wrong there.

1

u/insertnamehere02 Jan 15 '22

Only in states where they use federal tipped wage. States who use reg minimum wage don't use or need it.

3

u/2012DOOM Jan 15 '22

Just one clarification. If a worker doesn't get paid minimum wage with the low wage + tip, then the employer has to cover it.

A lot of people don't know this and the owners of the businesses take advantage of them not knowing this.

2

u/sortaangrypeanut Jan 15 '22

Yep, I've now learned this. Didn't know this beforehand and I am rethinking my opinion, thank you

1

u/Circus_mind Jan 15 '22

Thank you. I scrolled for way too long to find this comment. Tipping culture is stupid and employers SHOULD pay a living wage.

But you don't change tipping culture by not tipping, and you don't do that to the people in the dirt with you. If we're all fighting for the same thing, then why stiff someone who's also just trying to get by?

I could think of so many other ways to treat myself with $77, and so many other ways to fight against tipping culture.

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u/insertnamehere02 Jan 15 '22

This is what irritates me the most when I see the triggered masses flipping out. Not tipping your server isn't going to fix the problem. All it tells me is that they're not anti shitty pay, they just don't want to pay the extra because HOW DARE YOU??

I have zero issues tipping servers if they did a good job, especially since people have gotten so shitty and the job is stressful af. It's a way to fricken show appreciation for them making sure your dining experience was a good one. With the way people react here, it's like ffs, calm the hell down. All the outrage seems to stem from "wah it's not fair to me!" and not really trying to be a fighter of pay equality.

1

u/Aegi Jan 15 '22

No, the US Federal Government makes it so that all servers must be paid minimum wage, but as long as that employee is taking home at least minimum wage divided by the hours they worked, then the employer is only required to pay $2.13 per hour of their take-home pay.

It is illegal for any regular employee in the US to take home less than either the federal, or their state’s minimum wage, whichever is higher.

Lol, I’m going to be a little bit condescending, although this is directed at everybody reading this, not just you the person I’m replying to:

and people wonder why we (as a society) are easily taken advantage of by certain leaders and politicians and celebrities and things like that. When people don’t even understand a law that’s been in place for more than a decade, when you can look it up and read it word for word, it’s no surprise that we get taken to the cleaners when trying to listen to politicians. It’s no wonder we always think that they’re lying or keeping their promises or not.

Obviously we can’t even fucking understand what’s already written down in clear language — how the fuck are we going to understand purposefully obscure language spoken by politicians knowing the difference between what they said and what most people will hear/think?

Also, servers need to do a better job claiming all of their tips as income then, because 100% of the people I’ve been friends with, fucked, dated, been roommates with, etc. have never claimed 100% of all of their tips as income on their taxes each year, so they need to be like the rest of us that actually pay the taxes we owe, and stop acting like the 1% they get mad at by dodging taxes.

Edit: Source: https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/minimum-wage/history since 1996 it has been this way in regards to tipping.

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u/Ok_Relative_5180 Jan 15 '22

Exactly everyone sounds stupid complaining about having to tip like thats what it is right now. This is where we're at. So if your broke and still want to treat ur self, maybe u should make something at home instead of eating out, relying on service and then saying well im too broke and tipping shouldn't be a thing anyway like- it IS a thing. So either pay up or move to Europe!! Or eat at home, but save us the shit 🙄 I always tip decent at restaurants and I don't eat at upscale places. I know someone that door dashes frequently and says they cant afford to tip and Ive started to door dash as well and I'm certainly not well off in any way but I'm decent I and make sure I tip at the very least $5 each time (usually more) and if I can't afford to tip at least $5 (cus i certainly would never give 0) then I won't door dash that day, i'll go pick up my food. Or I'll make something at home. Let's act like we have some knowledge of the way things work and not be selfish and stupid. Society really has gone downhill these days

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u/fanatic1123 Jan 15 '22

Or just be mad at everyone in the wrong? Its not a race to the bottom

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u/Joga212 Jan 15 '22

The customer isn’t technically wrong though, it’s the employer.

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u/The_Stav Jan 15 '22

I think the thing for me is that tipping is optional, so you can't blame a customer for effectively using the system as intended, it should be the system itself you focus on right?

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u/sortaangrypeanut Jan 15 '22

If a customer is intentionally using the system as intended, whilst knowing that this intended system is screwing over workers, thats a dick move

I thought this whole subreddit was about individuals opposing the intended system! How is choosing to follow it in order to hurt a waiter's chances at paying rent helping anybody?

-1

u/Ellie__1 Jan 15 '22

You can focus on the system, and still pay the server for their labor, it you do decide to go out to eat in this system.

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u/ilikeUni Jan 15 '22

They do want the tipping culture, at least based on quite a few wait staffs who I’ve seen defending it. Just want to provide some relevant info. Currently even though the employer can pay below minimum wage, if the tips plus their pay does not sum up to minimum wage, the employer is supposed to pay the difference. So the wait staff are guaranteed a minimum wage. They often make more than minimum wage through tips, some way more depending on the restaurant. Just imagine getting 20% tip in a medium to high end restaurants. A good night can earn $300-500.

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u/Anorak27s Jan 15 '22

I genuinely think they all secretly deep down want the tipping culture to stay because it more or less benefits everyone bar the customer.

Not that secretly and not that deep down either, if they didn't like the system they would have changed it already, but most of them are making way more than they would but getting a normal hourly wage.

-2

u/[deleted] Jan 15 '22

[deleted]

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u/Anorak27s Jan 15 '22

why are you even on this subreddit?

Because this bullshit right here is not what this subreddit is about.

“if you don’t like this about society why do you even participate in said society?”

I don't, I live in a civilized country where people are paid a decent wage.

5

u/jadondrew Jan 15 '22

Recognizing the issues with tipping culture doesn’t exempt you from being an asshole.

People try to spin it that not tipping undermines tipping culture, eventually benefitting the worker. This is just not what’s going to happen. It just makes things harder for workers that are already struggling financially.

This customer absolutely should be shamed for this. Knowing the reality of how shit their pay is, it’s unethical to use these services knowing that you can’t leave a tip. Even knowing how bad the system is, you are leaving them at the mercy of their starvation wages.

2

u/TroutCuck Jan 15 '22

It's like not buying puppies from puppy mills. It would help the puppy, but it funds the mill making more puppies.

-3

u/reflectorvest Jan 15 '22

Tipping can benefit the customer though, especially if you have places you go regularly. Everyone knows which regulars tip well, and staff remember good tippers. I’ve always had a handful of comps at every place I’ve worked and I could use them on my friends/family or I could toss one to a guy who tipped me $20 on a $55 tab last week. The guy who had a $55 tab and tipped nothing, forcing me to pay out of my own pocket for the privilege of serving him because I had to tip out expo and the bar based on sales for the shift and then pay taxes on my expected tip total which included 10% from his check? He will get the absolute bare minimum from me the next time he shows up. Servers have good memories, it’s why a lot of them don’t have to write things down and they can tell you what’s in every dish on the menu.

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u/ThunderousOrgasm Jan 15 '22

What a ridiculous justification hahah. Toxic as fuck tipping culture.

-1

u/reflectorvest Jan 15 '22

So your server should have to pay for you to eat out if you can’t afford to tip? Because that’s what happens when you don’t tip in America.

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u/ThunderousOrgasm Jan 15 '22

Ridiculous statement. The server dosnt pay for me.

0

u/reflectorvest Jan 15 '22

Do you understand how tipouts work? If 3% of a server’s sales total for a shift gets pulled from their total tips to go to the expo worker and bartender (which is average and compensates them for the work they do for you while not getting tipped), they still owe them that percentage of the table didn’t tip. So if your bill was $100 and you didn’t tip, your server still has to pay the bar and expo $3. If no one tips the server and their sales are $1000, the server now owes the house $30 for the privilege of working.

1

u/moldy_minge Jan 15 '22

Tipping does shaft the customer, but it screws the wait staff over twice as much. They make half of minimum wage and if the customer decides not to tip, that's literal lost wages for the server. That's where the anger comes in and I agree it's misplaced, however if you plan to eat at an establishment with wait staff you should always factor in a tip.

Its detrimental to the customer and devastating to the server. Tipping culture has to go, it benefits everyone save the customer and the server.