r/antiwork Jan 14 '22 Silver 5 Helpful 16 Wholesome 10

So sorry, I'm broke so I can only pay you $77 for my food. You were great though.

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30.2k Upvotes

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15.0k

u/Shruikathemonk Jan 14 '22 Silver Gold Helpful Wholesome Starry

American tipping culture is a cancer.

618

u/nbbiking Jan 15 '22 Helpful

It pits the working class against each other, making a worker responsible for another worker’s living, while the management gets to keep the difference.

One must be a special kind of stupid to find oneself in this sub and support tipping. It’s so fucking obvious

123

u/TerraOrdinem Jan 15 '22

This post does exactly that. It blames the customer when all the server's anger should be directed at whoever is profiting the most from their labor.

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u/george_costanza1234 Jan 15 '22

US is completely brainwashed rn. Expecting the middle class to fund other members of the middle class is one of the weirdest norms in this country.

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u/the_real_nps Jan 15 '22 edited Jan 15 '22

That's why I've always thought tipping was a stupid idea in general. It only works for rich customers. I mean that's how it actually started (according to wiki): "The practice of tipping began in Tudor England. In medieval times, tipping was a master-serf custom wherein a servant would receive extra money for having performed superbly well." And that may have worked. But expecting the middle class and even the poor to pay extra amounts of money on top of what usually already is a significant amount to them is just bonkers. And then laying guilt-trips if someone actually protests against this setup.

1

u/CreatedSole Jan 16 '22

But expecting the middle class and even the poor to pay extra amounts of money on top of what usually already is a significant amount to them is just bonkers. And then laying guilt-trips if someone actually protests against this setup.

Say it louder for the condescending pricks in the back.

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u/NewArborist64 Jan 17 '22

Who do you suppose that 80% of the customers are? The middle class - so THEY are the ones supporting the restaurant. If it a franchise or the owner of a single restaurant, guess what - the OWNER is also "middle class".

You will see remarkably few Billionaires going to 3 star diners. It is the middle class serving the middle class in a place owned by a middle class person.

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u/dexmonic Jan 15 '22

And people eat it up. It's always been about class. Always. We've had good politicians and we've had bad, but whatever problems they fight or create, it always ends up being about class.

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u/According_Gazelle472 Jan 17 '22

It is definitely misplaced anger .To take a job that you know will not pay peanuts and have to guilt people into paying your bills .

-4

u/Goliath_Gamer Jan 15 '22

True, but if you can't afford to tip then you can't afford to eat out.

1

u/Odd-Mountain-9110 Jan 15 '22

But he did afford tk eat out so that aint true.

-2

u/Goliath_Gamer Jan 15 '22

If you can't afford to tip your server, don't eat out.

1

u/Odd-Mountain-9110 Jan 15 '22

Nope. If you dont want stable pay but rather to rely on generosity to make more than accept the risk. Or unionize. Stop being a class traitor.

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u/Goliath_Gamer Jan 15 '22

class traitor

LMFAO. You're the one who thinks it's okay to make servers suffer because you disagree with the tipping system. Not tipping doesn't change anything. All it does is harm hard working people who bust their ass to SERVE YOU. Have some fucking human decency. Jesus Christ.

2

u/Odd-Mountain-9110 Jan 15 '22

You're the one who thinks it's okay to make servers suffer because you disagree with the tipping system.

I'm not making you suffer by not donating to you. Unionize. Demands more pay. Strike. Do anything other workers do to get better treatment rather than have a hissy when people dont donate to you. Your greedyvand want others just trying to live to pay you so you don't have to struggle to demand better treatment yourself.

1

u/Goliath_Gamer Jan 15 '22

Firstly, I never said I was server. Second... It's like I said: you seem to think that by not tipping your underpaid server you're somehow "sticking it to the man" by refusing to participate in the obviously fucked-up tipping system that currently exists in our culture. You think you can force thousands upon thousands of service workers to take the enormous financial risk of losing their jobs in order to fix the corrupt tipping system. You think you can achieve this noble goal by actively making their financial situation worse while acting all righteous. You're slapping those hard working people in the face and telling them they're not worth tipping all while expecting them to potentially lose everything they've ever worked for in order to force their employers to pay them what they deserve.

You're not changing anything- that's my point. The only thing the act of not tipping does is harm the very people you claim to root for. This is the act of a selfish and uncaring person.

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u/mapcat Jan 15 '22

Tipping is fucked, but there is no way most servers and bartenders want it to go away. They can easily clear 40+ an hour on solid nights and sometimes far more. No restaurants would offer that much.

That said, I worked as a server and I would have preferred a solid hourly wage because I was stuck on a lot of slow breakfast shifts. And being tipped also just kinda makes me feel like a prostitute

68

u/MaxTHC Jan 15 '22

They can easily clear 40+ an hour on solid nights and sometimes far more.

At a fancy restaurant/bar in a gentrified neighborhood? Sure. But if you work at a quiet diner on the outskirts of town, you're making very little in tips. Also, other FOH employees (e.g. bussers) get jack shit from the tip pool.

It infuriates me that those who are lucky enough to work somewhere with good tips are content to fully ignore how shitty the tipping system is to so many fellow workers. Feels very class-traitor-esque to me.

9

u/SoftNSquishy Jan 15 '22

This, exactly this. Servers should be supportive of each other, and all should back wage reform to make tipping a bonus instead of a necessity. But sadly, the class war is alive and well in American culture and having each other's backs is getting so rare these days in a lot of circles.

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u/Daddio7 Jan 15 '22

As far as I know there are no "press gangs" Shanghaiing people and forcing them to work at restaurants. FIND ANOTHER JOB.

$77.90, that was five people, right? Couldn't one of them ponied up a TIP. No, really, that would buy three of the most expensive meals in my town.

2

u/Technical-Hedgehog18 Jan 15 '22

And you do know things cost different amounts in different places? You gotta think further than your locality if you really care and want change

1

u/MaxTHC Jan 15 '22

I'm no longer in the service industry. But also, "find another job" isn't realistic for everyone. Imagine you live in a small town in rural California. Your wages shouldn't fucked because a server at a tech bro bar in Santa Clara is making bank from tips.

Maybe you prefer living in a rural town, or maybe you don't have enough money to leave.

Yes, you should find another job, but that's not the point. The point is that any job, anywhere, should not be allowed to pay you below minimum wage.

2

u/Daddio7 Jan 15 '22

True, get rid of tipping, make all jobs pay minimum wage. If the owner can not pay minimum wage the job will disappear. I guess a job that pays less then minimum wage is worse then having no job at all.

-1

u/nepumbra0 Jan 15 '22

Time to find a new place to work then

5

u/MaxTHC Jan 15 '22

Missing the point entirely. I could find a better job, but someone else will replace me at that diner. And then it would be them getting fucked over from a system which I benefit from.

0

u/nepumbra0 Jan 15 '22

Sure but then that person will do the same thing. If the company wants to not pay competitive wages their restaurant will be a revolving door. Some jobs just aren't meant to be permanent.

2

u/MaxTHC Jan 15 '22

We're not talking about competitive wages or not. We're talking about the company paying less than minimum wage to it's employees. For me this isn't a question of business strategy, it's a question of ethical labour laws.

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u/nepumbra0 Jan 15 '22

The tip system has pros and cons for sure, and I don't really agree with it. At the same time I stand by my point, if you aren't making much from tips then go somewhere else. No one is forcing you to work there.

0

u/MaxTHC Jan 16 '22 edited Jan 16 '22

I agree that anyone in that situation should get a better job if they are able to. But that's also a fairly privileged response. People living in rural areas might not have access to any better jobs nearby. People with disabilities often have a very hard time finding employment. Not everyone can just up and leave their job and easily find something better.

Also, your solution may work on an individual basis, but kind of dismisses the fact that this is a systemic problem. Even if no individual employee stays at the company for very long because of the poor wages, the company is still continuously taking advantage of working-class folks by paying them under minimum wage.

And hell, even at the individual level, if you quit after two weeks, you still deserve to be paid fairly for that time. So even ignoring the systemic issue (which you shouldn't), your argument feels pretty anti-worker.

TLDR: yes, of course you should leave the job, but as I keep saying, that is completely beside the point I was making.

9

u/[deleted] Jan 15 '22

I work for a steel union. We are all prostitutes.

3

u/george_costanza1234 Jan 15 '22

Tipping itself doesn’t need to go away. The expectation of it is what needs to go away.

22

u/Tel-aran-rhiod Jan 15 '22

I was about to upvote and agree with you, but there is nothing wrong at all with being a prostitute. Sex work is work

10

u/mapcat Jan 15 '22

Yeah I didn’t mean it like that. If they enjoy it, all power to them. But personally, sex work would make me feel like shit about myself

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u/Tel-aran-rhiod Jan 15 '22 edited Jan 15 '22

Well you said it like that. Rather than getting defensive about it maybe just take it on board and do better next time

EDIT: lol these comments always get downvoted to hades, redditors are so fragile when it comes to being called out on bs. Maybe you can all buck up and spend some time looking in the mirror - the lesson is that if you say something shitty, saying "I didn't mean it like that" doesn't absolve you of it, and is just making it about you, rather than simply owning your mistake and changing your behaviour

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u/mapcat Jan 15 '22 edited Jan 15 '22

I would say that most people that go into sex work would not be doing so if we had such things as basic universal income. I did not mean to disrespect anyone doing sex work. Also you're kinda a patronizing dick. Do better next time? Foh

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u/Tel-aran-rhiod Jan 15 '22

And why would you say that? Have you ever done sex work? How many sex workers do you personally know? You're making a lot of value judgements about it.

And honestly mate, you're just being fragile and I'm not here to spoon feed you. I don't care about internet popularity points lol.

You said something shitty, I called you out on it, you responded by getting defensive and making it about you rather than just owning your mistake. Deal lol

10

u/[deleted] Jan 15 '22

Not really, it's moreso you projecting a value judgement on to their comment. There was nothing in there about prostitution being bad. I'm a doctor and I work with medical devices, I often say I don't like to feel like a salesperson - that's not a criticism of salespeople. You need to fucking chill out lol. There are plenty of people shitting on sex work if you wanna call someone out.

3

u/reslavan Jan 15 '22

Most people who talk about SW and use it as a cheap talking point don’t actually know anyone who does it, haven’t done it themselves, and generally aren’t that knowledgeable about it

-1

u/PmP_Eaz Jan 15 '22

I mean, prostitution often involves feeling degraded even if it’s profitable. If one didn’t choose that path of life it’s understandable not to want to feel that way. No shame to those that did ofc.

0

u/HexAppendix Jan 15 '22

Capitalism is by definition selling the use of your body and time in exchange for money. How is that different from sex work?

Sex workers are allowed to feel however they want to feel about it, but comments like yours contribute to the stereotypes that it is somehow inherently degrading or fundamentally different from other types of labor. It's not.

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u/Tel-aran-rhiod Jan 15 '22 edited Jan 15 '22

100% this. I personally know many sex workers, and none of them feel degraded by what they do. I can't say the same for the people I know working in hospitality or retail or many other industries. Insisting that sex work is somehow more (or inherently) degrading is just the same old bs cultural misogyny and policing of women's sexuality dressed a different way

1

u/PmP_Eaz Jan 18 '22

What’s the race of the sex workers you know?

3

u/BarrymoresPoolBoi Jan 15 '22

Some might say comments like yours focus on the comparatively privileged sex workers, some of whom may not even meet their clients or participate in penetrative sex depending on how you define "sex work", rather than financially desperate drug addicts and pimped out children.

3

u/RozzyStripe Jan 15 '22

Ladies and gentlemen I give you... the current state of America

1

u/PoIIux Jan 15 '22

Doesn't mean everyone needs to want to feel like a prostitute.

3

u/master0fcats Jan 15 '22

I think most servers and bartenders don't want tipping to go away because how the fuck else are they gonna make a living wage? Like, people get so pissy that servers and bartenders want to continue making decent money when the reality is that if most of us could do the same job getting paid a solid hourly wage with benefits, we'd take it in a hearbeat over the gamble of the tip system. Servers and bartenders don't want it to go away because as things stand now, there's no better option. Not directed at you but I don't understand why people don't see this.

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u/Fook_n_Spook Jan 15 '22

I agree, it's like saying "the people making 25-30 an hour don't want to get rid of the system that allows them to and replace it with one where they make 12". Well of course not, the market out there is absolutely fucked for most hourly workers and no one wants to make less money

1

u/DouglerK Jan 15 '22

Which restaurants are people making 40+/hr at you delusional fuck?

115

u/drytiger Jan 15 '22

I would bet you that there are lots of people on this sub who support tipping, and the vast majority of them depend on tips.

The vast majority of people I know who are dependent on tips believe they are entitled to them.

I agree with you that tipping is a fucked up norm, but you will never reason people out of their short-term self interest.

50

u/bashup2016 Jan 15 '22

You’re right that there are plenty of people here that depend on tips. There’s nothing wrong with being awesome at your job. It doesn’t mean we agree with it. I’ve been personally threatened for floating the idea of unionization in the restaurant industry.

6

u/ShirtStainedBird Jan 15 '22

What like asking politicians to approve a huge pay cut in the form of no more stock trading?

3

u/RavenWolfPS2 Jan 15 '22

The vast majority of people I know who are dependent on tips believe they are entitled to them.

r/doordash_drivers anyone?

23

u/nbbiking Jan 15 '22 edited Jan 15 '22

Yeah I remembered the demographic of this sub after my comment.

But even then, expecting for tipping to stay as the norm is hypocritical.

  1. This post is publicly shaming a customer who didn’t pay a tip, which clearly then implies that the op and those in support expect everyone to tip.

  2. My understanding was that this sub was meant to be a community of working people interested in engaging in some sort of discussion or mass mobilization relating to workers rights issues and empowerment of the working class.

  3. Then, r/antiwork participants at the receiving end of tips (probably the majority of the people here) supporting OP and criticizing other working class people who earn more than them, for not tipping waiters (them), is nothing but hypocrisy. It’s literally, “we’re both working class, but because you earn more than me, you’re my enemy if you refuse to tip”. People are drawing a line between themselves and anyone who earns more than them. That’s 100% against the spirit of this sub. It’s working class vs the super rich, not the lower class vs lower middle or middle or upper middle class. “You must tip even though by doing so you’ll be helping sustaining this unethical and exploitative system, because it’ll benefit me too in the short run”. You can’t have it both ways.

Tipping is fine. But r/antiwork sub expecting everyone to tip and shaming those who don’t is hypocrisy.

5

u/strawberry_vegan Jan 15 '22

What you don’t seem to be understanding is that a lot of people in support of OP, likely a large majority, do not support tipping as a concept. It’s important to acknowledge that while tipping should be abolished, it is very likely that OP lost money serving this person. Tipouts are common, and are based on a percentage of sales. It’s not like someone not tipping means the server doesn’t get extra money on top of their measly wages, it means that the server has to take money out of what they’ve already made to pay out the other staff.

It’s incredibly messed up and needs to end, but while we are fighting to end it, the absolute least we can do is ensure that someone isn’t losing money by serving us.

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u/[deleted] Jan 15 '22

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u/[deleted] Jan 15 '22

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u/[deleted] Jan 15 '22

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u/[deleted] Jan 15 '22

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u/[deleted] Jan 15 '22

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u/drytiger Jan 15 '22

Me fail english? That's unpossible

2

u/darkshrike Jan 15 '22

Agree. Tipping is a Jim Crow era holdout. It needs to go. The REAL problem is asshole patrons who want to dangle the tip as a "reward" for good service. Seemingly ignorant of the fact that in some states tipped employees make less than 3.00 minimum wage.

2

u/ArrowheadDZ Jan 15 '22

Exactly this. Post after post after post after post after post after post blames and shames the restaurant patron who didn’t tip. ANY time someone posts “yeh, but the tipping culture is just a cost shift away from the owner” usually gets hammered unrelentingly with downvotes. You stated the actual problem perfectly though, this is the best wording I have seen on this topic.

The person responsible for developing a brand experiencing, and motivating their employees to deliver that brand experience, is the business owner. The idea of crowd-sourcing your own company’s brand expectations to the public instead of taking responsibility for it yourself… It is one of those things where once you actually say it out loud, the absurdity of it becomes obvious.

3

u/master0fcats Jan 15 '22

I definitely think tipping is a fucked system, but there's a whole helluva lot that needs to change before people decide not tipping is the right move. For starters, don't use services where a tip is expected. That can be done on an individual level. On a larger level, we need things like a higher minimum wages, universal healthcare, mandatory paid sick leave, etc. People who make decent money working for tips know that it isn't a reliable source of income and even the career bartenders and servers know they're fucked when it comes to retirement. But at the end of the day, a lot of us are just trying to take advantage of a system that is designed to fuck us over. And I think a lot of Americans who harp on "just pay your employees a living wage!" are also the same people who say "support local!" without realizing that those local places would probably tank if they had to pay a living wage. I'm all for that, I don't think anyone has the right to "live their dream" of owning a business if they can't pay their staff. But that's a reality most Americans will have a very hard time reconciling.

5

u/Tel-aran-rhiod Jan 15 '22

The idea that places would go out of business paying min wage is dumb. And if there's cases where it's true, then the place deserves to go out of business because they've based their margins on wage theft and that isn't a business, it's crime

3

u/master0fcats Jan 15 '22

There are totally small businesses that rely super heavily on not paying their workers a living wage. I live in a town where our entire economy is based around a shiny downtown with mediocre expensive restaurants. Most of them would definitely shut their doors if they had to pay their servers $20 an hour. And I agree, they do deserve to go out of business, which is exactly what I said in the second to last line of my comment.

2

u/MiaLba Jan 15 '22

When I can’t afford to tip I don’t go to sit down restaurants I get fast food instead but I’m starting to see tip requests at fast food places too. Panera, subway, Etc give a suggested tip amount when you pay.

I took my dvr for my camera system to a electronics repair shop the other day just to get the password reset, and when I went to pay with my card it asked what tip amount I wanted to leave. It started at 18%, then 25%, and 30%. In really small letters it gives the option for “other.” They literally set their own prices and I paid $50 just for them to re set the password. Which I was fine with but why is every place asking for damn tips.

2

u/master0fcats Jan 15 '22

I think a lot of credit card systems just automatically include that tip line, so that just happens sometimes. And fast casual places like Panera have always had tip jars, at least by me. But the fast food thing is wild, and when it comes to any chain place with a drive thru, I would almost encourage people NOT to tip because there's a reason that's suddenly popping up.

The whole "labor shortage" has forced an insane amount of competition especially in fast food, and I would bet any amount of money that McDonald's all of a sudden handing you a card reader to add a tip is because they're trying to minimize the effects of the wage competition happening in their industry right now. We gotta keep forcing these mega places that already pay a wage to continue raising that wage.

-3

u/YaBoiJonnyG Jan 15 '22

I agree, but I think it should be normal to tip as well if someone does go above and beyond. They deserve and standard and tips should be just that. A bonus for a job well done.

16

u/bostongreens Jan 15 '22

Agreed. But done by the employer, like every other person who gets a bonus at their job for good work.

1

u/YaBoiJonnyG Jan 15 '22

Oh hell yeah dude

25

u/PhantomO1 Jan 15 '22

a bonus that should not be expected

1

u/SoftNSquishy Jan 15 '22

I don't support the tipping practice because its an evil practice built on capitalist greed, but in my eyes, I tip and tip well when I know people rely on it because I have compassion and decency. If you don't support tipping practice and go to places where tipping is expected and don't tip, you're just another selfish asshole.

2

u/nbbiking Jan 15 '22

Did I ever say that one shouldn’t tip? Or did you not read my comment?

You’re a special kind of stupid if you’re in this sub and pressures everyone else to tip, which is what this post is doing by shaming someone who didn’t tip. Whether I or you tip or not is completely irrelevant here.

0

u/SoftNSquishy Jan 15 '22

I'm not pressuring you or anyone to tip, we all have free will after all and no, your previous comment in no way implies that you tip people. I'm not a mind reader.

I stand by what I said, if you eat out at a restaurant and don't tip your server it's shitty behaviour, full stop. It is possible to both hate tipping culture and be kind enough to not want a fellow human to struggle. Compassion for other workers is baseline behaviour and should be a founding principle of this sub.

0

u/Ok_Opportunity2693 Jan 15 '22

As a consumer and not a server: tipping is stupid and I don’t support it, but until waiters are paid a fair hourly wage we must all still tip.

-1

u/astonedishape Jan 15 '22

One can be against tipping and also not stiff service workers. Yeah we know, you’re doing it for their own good, but you’re also taking the place of someone who will tip and your still supporting the restaurant owner. Just stay home

-1

u/Mrchristopherrr Jan 15 '22

Tipping gives workers better access to other workers. It takes out the middle men of owners and managers- who would only take more for themselves. I’m surprised such a “pro-worker” subreddit really hates paying workers directly.

1

u/Odd-Mountain-9110 Jan 15 '22

It takes out the middle men of owners and managers-

Not really you still fired and listen to rules. Just get to guilt other workers for money as well.

1

u/mommommamamamama Jan 15 '22

It doesn’t seem obvious when you’re depending on tips to live. But if you get out…

1

u/[deleted] Jan 15 '22

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1

u/randomizeplz Jan 15 '22

uh customers are not necessarily working class

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u/MBKM13 Jan 15 '22

I get the point, but I’m a server and I’m in college and where tf else am I supposed to realistically make $20-$30 an hour?

Tipping is what’s keeping me alive lmao

1

u/DisastrousMacaron325 Jan 15 '22

One must be a special kind of stupid to find oneself in this sub and support tipping.

Say it louder for those in the back!!!

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u/GlowyStuffs Jan 15 '22

Telling poor people to stay home unless they directly pay one person at a place extra when eating out is already expensive enough is pretty classist. The business makes a profit and isn't about to collapse, put that righteous attitude into unionizing at the restaurant and/or asking for a raise and switch away from tips. It's crazy how many people in the service industry are always specifically mad at people who don't tip or tip less than they want rather than the employer that pays them almost 1/3 of minimum wage. They continue to go for these positions knowing the employer doesn't pay them while acknowledging or saying that protesting by not tipping only hurts the worker. I never see any movements in the meantime to fight for normal wages and benefits.

I also hear arguments where people are against doing away with tips because the amount they get off of basically societal forced obligation can get super high tips, like $30 an hour or more, as some have bragged about. So they don't want to switch to a $15-$18 an hour model. Of course, many don't make nearly that much, but it flips things when it goes from a helping the poor unpaid low end job to a person demanding consistently large tipping to make decently more than the average worker visiting the establishment off of less hours.

I would think these past 2 years would have fully decimated the industry and turned it on its head considering tip based businesses are based on the amount of people coming in which was prohibited/reduced in a lot of cases. That along with being businesses without benefits during a pandemic which requires a bunch of interaction. Due to basically no vacation and all that, 3 years ago, I would expect a bunch of people would have been desperate enough to work while having the flu. It's weird how there wasn't a massive movement to switch to regular wages and benefits during all of this. Or that people still flock to the no pay, no benefits jobs in large numbers still in a pandemic where they'd get less restaurant traffic for tips. If ever there was a time for a revolution in the industry, it probably would have happened in the past 2 years.

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u/EdenDoesJams Jan 15 '22

You can be against the concept of tipping while accepting the reality of the nation you live in. I’d love for America to do away with it and pay better wages but that hadn’t happened, so it is what it is for now.

If you spend this much on a meal and can’t tip your wage slave server, that’s on you

0

u/DaBeeZee Jan 15 '22

Ummmm, then vote for people who support a liveable wage, and in the meantime: do not eat out if you aren't fighting for change. (Following a Reddit sub doesn't count.)

Here you are blaming the service industry workers; one must be a special kind of stupid.