r/antiwork Jan 14 '22 Helpful 16 Wholesome 10 Silver 5

So sorry, I'm broke so I can only pay you $77 for my food. You were great though.

Post image
30.2k Upvotes

View all comments

6.8k

u/Erect_Llama Jan 15 '22 Wholesome Take My Energy

One of the biggest things in America I'll never understand is why tipping is so important. Like why tf can't the server's get paid a decent wage? Why do they live off of tips?

239

u/dgl7c4 Jan 15 '22

My partner has been a server for years. I make 50k/year and she often brings home the same amount of money or more than I do each month. I completely agree that tip culture is stupid as fuck, and a lot of people barely scrape by in that industry, but there are also people who benefit greatly. There’s no way in hell that a “livable wage” would come close to what she’s making off of tips. I’m not trying to justify it but I also think it’s a tough issue to tackle when a lot of servers would prefer it stays the same than to make ~15/hr.

147

u/dangoodspeed Jan 15 '22

What about getting $15/hour and still accepting tips for superb service, but not expecting tips... especially to the point that someone's considered an asshole for not tipping?

63

u/Shopped_For_Pleasure Jan 15 '22

Or getting paid a salary reflective of what the service is worth like any other job.

If it’s a high end restaurant, pay them like $30 an hour or some shit. Lower end, idk $20?

Tipping is so fucking stupid. It’s not expected in any other industry because your doing exactly what youre paid to do. I don’t understand why handing orders to patrons is more special than the chef who made the meal and keeps the kitchen area sanitary, or the hostess who seats and organizes the place, or anything else. Hell, I’d say cleaning the place is probably one of the more difficult jobs in the restaurant and it’s probably paid the least.

Also, ironically, the best places to eat are always the places that refuse tipping. Theres a few great places in New York that refuse your tip, and it goes without saying the same thing goes for European countries (although tipping is becoming more popular as companies begin to use American software that has ‘tipping’ preloaded) and especially Japan. They all have been much more attentive and appreciative than anywhere that expects a tip.

Tipping is by far the most stupid obligation.

46

u/stilljustacatinacage Jan 15 '22 Helpful

This has long been my position on it as well, especially against the "we can pay a living wage and have tips!" nonsense.

I 100% support thriving wages for everyone, but tip culture is so toxic and transparent for what it really is: a way to condition the workers to endorse their own exploitation.

As others have said, tipped workers can make good money, better than any minimum wage hike will allow; so while many will support an increase to minimum wage, they'd never support the abolishment of tipping. It's too lucrative.

Meanwhile the gas station attendant, who is expected to be every bit as personable, on their feet, fetch goods for customers, process purchases, clean the store, stock the shelves... Well I guess they should have gotten a job at the restaurant across the street instead.

It's dumb. I hate it, but mostly I'm tired of customers and servers alike happily dancing along to the Pied Piper's tune.

3

u/Wheelchairpussy Jan 15 '22

High end restaurant wait staff don’t work any harder than low end for the most part though

3

u/kentonbryantmusic Jan 15 '22

Buddy serves at a high end restaurant in nashville. Makes 100k serving. He wouldn’t trade it for base wage.

2

u/skynetnord Jan 15 '22

Since covered since nobody wants to work we have seen wait staff up to $40 to $50 an hour here, people need to pay what people deserve or they won't go to work that's what's happening here in Australia, I don't know about there...

Yep tipping is stupid, how a person that acts on a day or what they look like or what they can say to a person eating the food they bring them should have nothing to do with how much they get paid..... Pay people what they deserve without tips!

3

u/[deleted] Jan 15 '22

I stopped tipping years ago. It's not my responsibility to supplement their salary.

1

u/OrvilleCaptain Jan 15 '22

A waiter at Red Robin already makes $30-$40/hr with tip. At a fine dining restaurant they make anywhere between $80-$300/hr. They are usually well compensated despite their compensation structure.

1

u/erikagm77 Jan 15 '22

It’s not expected in any other industry?

Taxi drivers expect to be tipped. When there were luggage handlers at the airport (from your car to ticket counter) they were tipped, practically any position where someone provides a service while being customer-facing expects to be tipped. Coat checkers? Tipped. Bell boys? Tipped. Maid service? Tipped.

1

u/Adventurous_Dust_478 Jan 16 '22

I agree! Unfortunately, many of those no tip restaurants have a teeny sign adding an automatic % to the total due - which is the stupidist thing that I've ever heard - IDK Why, if they are going to expect a customer to tip, don't they just increase the price of the item by that percent and give it to the server.

0

u/Ok_Independence_9917 Jan 15 '22

You're speaking without having any restaurant experience, sales experience, or international travel experience. Service in Europe is often much much worse because they are getting paid regardless of whether or not they forgot to refill your drink. In sales, people are often paid commission. I've spoken to both Europeans and Americans on the subject and both agree. I've also lived in Japan. The culture is just much different there period so it's really not a great point for comparison. As a former waiter I would never like to get paid salary because then what is the motivation to pick up extra tables? A manager of a place like Cracker Barrel would see a huge dip in sales and would have to increase food costs dramatically. Why? Restaurants need to be able to flip tables to serve as many patrons as possible. If a server is paid a salary they will want to slow down how quickly the food comes out so that the table isn't flipped as quickly and they don't have to work as hard. You simply don't understand the industry well enough to criticize it. The system works and people who are actually good at their jobs get rewarded. Isn't that something we should be encouraging? This is just scratching the surface. I can go into much greater detail about the negative impacts on owners if anyone is truly interested. My friend owns a micro brewery. And for everyone saying that the owners a greedy this and scumbag that... Keep this in mind. Restaurant profits on average are only 5% of total sales on average. No other business comes with a higher failure rate. Tipping is an important and positive obligation. Removing it would negatively impact the restaurant business and the service you receive. So I don't see why people like you need to gripe about it and try to destroy a system which is good for the customer and good for the employee because they see it as inconvenient to themselves.... The only thing I will agree on is that employees who make more than the minimum wage for wait staff should not be expecting tips. Starbucks employees can easily make 15 an hour compared to the national minimum wage for wait staff of 2.14 an hour. Way too many individuals are holding their hand out expecting a tip and it's confusing to patrons who aren't sure who should be getting tipped what. So for employees like that, tips should be appreciated but not expected.

2

u/Shopped_For_Pleasure Jan 15 '22

Dude you can check my post history…

I have restaurant experience. I also live in Europe right now and have lived in Japan a lot of my life too (i have numerous posts and photos on my account confirming it too).

The service in the US is absolute dogshit.

2

u/No-Enthusiasm-2145 Jan 15 '22

You're describing the rest of the world, and it works better yes. Though hospitality could do with better money where I live too. It's kind 8f just seen as 'transitional' work that people aren't doing as a career. Which is really unfortunate for those that do actually enjoy it.

2

u/JackRakeWrites Jan 15 '22

It’s like that here in the Uk. Waiting staff are paid the minimum wage, tips are socially discretionary but generally happen. Some places split all tips between all the waiting and kitchen staff. We have an issues with some restaurants keeping tips if paid via card, so I always give cash.

1

u/mikes1988 Jan 15 '22

I'm in the UK. Our minimum wage applies to all industries and works out to about $13 an hour for the highest age group (workers younger than 23 get lower rates, which is total BS, if you're an apprentice it's much lower too).

A lot of restaurants still allow tips and if I get good service I'll tip 10% or so. The serving staff don't expect the tips here.

I do find our food prices are a bit higher compared to the US, likely to allow the restaurants to pay the higher wages. A burger and fries in my local pub is like $16, and a ~16oz coke would be like $7 (with no free refills) - but with no expectation to tip 18-20% the pricing is probably on parity with the US.

2

u/dangoodspeed Jan 15 '22

It's also important to note that $13/hour in UK also includes healthcare. It's pretty rare in the US for someone to be working waitstaff and not have to pay for their own healthcare on top of that.

1

u/mikes1988 Jan 15 '22

Worked out the effective tax rate of someone on that wage doing 37.5 hours a week (a normal sort of week for a lot of people in the UK. We would be paying about 10-11% tax, the rate in the US is around 5%. I just looked at rough prices for medical insurance there though and we're definitely getting the better deal in the UK lol. Would $5000 be a good starting point for individual medical insurance bought privately?

Add in that in the UK your employer is obliged to give you 28 days paid annual leave and pay statutory sick pay (which granted isn't a huge amount of money).

1

u/dangoodspeed Jan 15 '22

I'm in NY and I just looked up the "best" state-run health plan. $1,117.23/month or $13,406.76 per year. That still comes with a $800 deductible, $6,200 max out of pocket (so you won't ever go over $19,606.76 for the year in medical costs), 20% emergency room visit, $350 for ambulance, pretty much everything still costs money.

1

u/el_grort Jan 15 '22

Or gratuity fees for certain restaraunts, like exists in Europe, advertised on the menu and rolled into your payment.

The most annoying part of US servers tends to be how loud they bitch if people opt not to effectively voluntarily donate to them but also how loudly the denounce any change. It's either or, if it's so good to gamble your income due to how much you make, stop whining when the system you choose to gamble on doesn't work. But maybe I'm annoyed because it made service subreddits less about things that happened while serving and more Americans moaning about not being tipped while also defending the system the inherently allows that to the hilt.

1

u/5LaLa Jan 15 '22 edited Jan 15 '22

We need to break out of the $/HR mindset. Renting your time often results in doing the least work possible. Imho that’s not laziness, that’s capitalism, maximizing profits.

Obviously, that’s the framework we are in but, every job should have some type of profit sharing. In Japan, employees get 2 profit sharing bonuses a year which often are equivalent to half their annual salary. It’s not just the Nords/EU that have it better than us.

ETA: I know dangoodspeed mentions $15/hr and tips. Agree that’s obviously better than current, maybe I shouldn’t have replied to yours, just dropping my 2 cents

1

u/SacCyber Jan 16 '22

California pays tipped employees $15/hr and we still have a strong tipping culture.

Alaska, California, Minnesota, Montana, Nevada, Oregon, and Washington all require tipped employees to be paid the same minimum wage as every one else in those states.

Arizona, Colorado, Connecticut, Florida, Illinois, Hawaii, and New York require a significantly higher (over $7/hr) minimum wage for tipped employees than the federal minimum.

However we only focus on the federal minimum and the states that use it. If anyone mentions the other states they’re an asshole who shouldn’t go out to eat.

Minimum wage is not a living wage. However saying the servers in Austin Texas making $2.13/hr with a $1700 rent is suffering the same as the server making $15/hr with a $950 rent is disingenuous. Saying we should tip them both the same is odd mental gymnastics. Saying we should tip someone who serves a party of 2 $20 because the food is expensive but we should tip another serving a party of 2 $4 because the food is a value is also mental gymnastics. The expensive restaurant server is not doing 5x more work or providing 5x more value.

I tip when I go out because it’s expected and I can afford it. But I go out for food not service. I actively seek out restaurants that don’t do table service, but table service is forced on me if I want something other than fast food.

-5

u/Ok_Relative_5180 Jan 15 '22

What about just eating at home and being a cheap ass bitch on ur own time??

-2

u/[deleted] Jan 15 '22

I would never tip anyone making that much. I bet the entire tipping spiel would crash.

2

u/dangoodspeed Jan 15 '22

"that much"? That's like the bare minimum anyone should be making.

0

u/[deleted] Jan 15 '22 edited Jan 15 '22

For taking orders and bringing out food, no one can complain about that. The wage should fit the job. There isn't a one size fits, all and not every area has the same cost of living.

People also have the choice to move to a place that costs less to live if they cannot develop the necessary skills to find better (higher paying) employment.

We should also have a cultural conversation about how we encourage people to settle for less and demand more simply so the numbers can work out.

89

u/nikstick22 Jan 15 '22

tipping culture in America is absolutely a horrible structure. Women drastically outperform men on tips but in return are subjected to a lot of sexual harassment (this has been proven by many studies). It creates a system where employees compete for prime tip hours (the morning shift on a Wednesday is gonna make you next to nothing). Because tipping is considered necessary nearly ubiquitously, the price of dining is basically 15-25% higher nationally but a significant portion of the wages of the servers are incredibly unstable and while some people do make good money, for each of those there's at least one person who is screwed over.

If you have enough money to pay two people a liveable wage, but instead you pay one person 10% more and the other 10% less, I think you've created a massive net deficit to society.

One person makes a little extra than the bare minimum they need, but the other is fucking screwed.

7

u/Aegi Jan 15 '22

I think you mean young women, because while it might still apply for all ages, older women who have families are much more likely to be forced into working breakfast and lunch when their kids are at school and even though they’re working as hard or harder than the people at night who only have a six hour shift instead of an eight hour shift, because their tips are so much lower they’re taking less home even though they’re the ones with the family to support, or they get to potentially increase the chances that their kids are latchkey kids by taking the more lucrative shift after hours.

Regardless, until we put some sources in our comments were both just vomiting words onto our keyboards.

2

u/JakJako90 Jan 15 '22

The gender thing is so true! We had a girl working for us when we accepted tips in the bowling center I worked in, and she could get in €40-50 in a weekend (tips not expected), while I would see maybe 20. I was as polite, faster working, also worked as the mechanic so I sorted out all issues in the back in seconds. I did not earn €30 more over the weekend because of higher pay, so in essence I got less money for doing a better job. But we then swapped to a new system with a card terminal connected to the POS so tips were removed altogether except cash, which was maybe 30% of the bowling centers income. During corona it's been at 90-95% card usage.

139

u/post_pudding Jan 15 '22

Its not like tips stop if the wages go up tho, people will probably still tip for good service

154

u/Penny_D Jan 15 '22

Wouldn't it be nice if tips were a special bonus rather than required to survive?

33

u/absolutezombie Jan 15 '22

This. This should be the answer. It SHOULDN'T BE REQUIRED FOR THE PATRON TO SUBSIDIZE THE WORKERS PAY. The business should pay them a fair wage, tips should be appreciated.

6

u/skynetnord Jan 15 '22

This is how it is in Australia, As a dish washer in a cafe and the waitresses and I shared the tips given equally once a week as you said as a bonus👍🇦🇺

3

u/LowPath448 Jan 15 '22

That’s how it started … I think.

8

u/stewy9020 Jan 15 '22 edited Jan 15 '22

Nope. I mean it was probably around but the "tipping culture" in the US started because big companies wanted a way to pay ex slaves fuck all once slavery became illegal.

9

u/TomFoolery22 Jan 15 '22 edited Jan 15 '22

Actually it started as racism. I'm not even kidding.

Tipping in the U.S. really took off after slavery was abolished and was a way to supplement white workers pay while getting away with paying black people next to nothing.

https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2019/07/17/william-barber-tipping-racist-past-227361/

1

u/cheese_cyclist Jan 15 '22

Agreed. Now I'm getting cut eye from the restaurant for not doing tipping just for TAKEOUT. Also, it's rude to watch me tip on the spot when I'm trying to get past the machines. Ugh

32

u/hope2Bsingle Jan 15 '22

There are some restaurants that have an official no tipping policy because they pay a living wage.

3

u/[deleted] Jan 15 '22

[deleted]

3

u/theonioncollector Jan 15 '22

I believe that’s a federal mandate, but then you run into the fact that the US minimum wage is not a livable one

5

u/post_pudding Jan 15 '22

Not like they're going to fire a server bc someone slips them a 20

12

u/hope2Bsingle Jan 15 '22

If the restaurant policy is to refuse tips and you don't, absolutely you'll be fired. Maybe not the first time, but if you keep doing it...

2

u/TequilaAndJazz Jan 15 '22

Well fuck that company then

1

u/iSuckAtMechanicism Jan 15 '22

Wow… it’s yes, fuck a company for paying liveable wages and trying to change a horribly broken system.

1

u/TequilaAndJazz Jan 17 '22 edited Jan 17 '22

No, fuck them for taking a guft(tip) or punishing a worker for a gift(tip) that a customer gave to an employee

3

u/[deleted] Jan 15 '22

Yeah and they pay their servers allt less than what I make a single night waiting tables. A living wage will never compare to my tipped one.

2

u/According_Gazelle472 Jan 15 '22

I have actually gone to places like this and it so refreshing not to have to deal with this nonsense. Yes,they do exist and yes,they are not fast food either.

1

u/Tefloncon Jan 15 '22

Where is the sense in that? Wouldn’t you just pay them and say tips aren’t necessary, but still allow them to be if the customer chooses?

19

u/AliBarberTheSecond Jan 15 '22

Can confirm I get tips in a non tip culture for doing a good job.

5

u/post_pudding Jan 15 '22

I used to do high end weddings and events lighting, and the one time these giggarich 20somthings had a wedding and while we were striking it they came over with a box of like 20 handles of booze they couldn't fit in their car and gave them to us. Best tip ever lol

15

u/littleking15 Jan 15 '22

This is true, I work in a restaurant in Canada and we pay our servers 15 dollars an hour plus they still get tips they make good money.

2

u/skynetnord Jan 15 '22

Just like in Australia 🇦🇺👍👌 isn't it nice when your country looks after you a little? 🌄🙏

1

u/harryburgeron Jan 15 '22

What are prices for typical meals?

10

u/SuperSpeshBaby Jan 15 '22

In California servers make $14/hr (our current minimum wage) and tipping is the same here as everywhere else.

5

u/post_pudding Jan 15 '22

I live in California too and 14 is straight up homeless wages in a lot of places tho

11

u/SuperSpeshBaby Jan 15 '22

Yeah but it's minimum wage. In some other states servers make $2.13/hour, so they're way more dependent on tips than servers in California to even reach their state's (much lower) minimum wage.

3

u/post_pudding Jan 15 '22

Woah... that's so bad...

1

u/John_Browns_Body59 Jan 15 '22

Yeah but the servers are making more than the cooks and everyone else at the restaurant, yet no one talks about them lmao

3

u/post_pudding Jan 15 '22

Idk what you want me to say, minimum wage = homeless in a lot of places

-1

u/skynetnord Jan 15 '22

Yeah I was on $14 an hour 25 years ago in Australia as a dishwasher and I was 14....

Tough break California 😜👍

1

u/udsnyder08 Jan 15 '22

And most Americans would say California is unaffordable…

1

u/erikagm77 Jan 15 '22

As a fellow CA resident, cost of living here is also considerably higher than most other places too, so I kind of get why tipping needs to be the same.

1

u/SuperSpeshBaby Jan 15 '22

I don't know, I don't think the cost of living is so high here that $14/hr is equivalent to $2.13/hr in other US states. Servers here are much better off than people in that position.

1

u/erikagm77 Jan 15 '22

When you consider that rent here is higher than most other places, I don’t think they’re that much better off. Gas is also more expensive. Utilities as well. I don’t know about food as I haven’t really gone to a grocery store in other states, so I don’t know about those, but most everything else is almost always more expensive.

1

u/SuperSpeshBaby Jan 15 '22

I know California is more expensive, it's not 7x more expensive, and servers here make a base salary that is 7x more than people who make $2.13/hour.

To be clear, I'm not arguing that servers shouldn't be paid more or that the minimum wage is livable anywhere. But it is a fact that servers making $14/hr in California are not as dependant on tips to survive as servers making $2.13/hour in Mississippi.

1

u/SohndesRheins Jan 15 '22

It probably is at least 7x more expensive depending on where you compare it to. My house is a prefabricated home, 1900 square feet, 4 bedrooms, 2 bathrooms, on 3.35 acres of land. Paid 135k for it in 2020 and our mortgage is about 770 or so a month. What would that run in LA or the Bay Area? I'm guessing a lot more than 7 times as much.

1

u/SuperSpeshBaby Jan 15 '22

It's not directly comparable because you're not going to find that kind of property square footage in any major city. But it is possible to find a comfortable place to live in either San Francisco or Los Angeles for less than $5,390/month, which would be 7x more than you pay.

29

u/dgl7c4 Jan 15 '22

Yeah that’s a good point.

10

u/pygmy_lucifer Jan 15 '22

But it won’t be implied you have to. I’ve had some pretty bad service before but still feel forced to tip when I receive the bill cause it’s right there in percentages on it. A tip should be a little extra for somebody doing a good job, not for having a job that doesn’t pay enough. I’m a mechanic and receive tips from time to time. I appreciate the compliment more than the money. I tipped an Amazon driver the other day $20, finally caught one in the act. Those guys do a great job

5

u/No-Improvement-8205 Jan 15 '22

Also without haveing any first hand knowledge on the topic, I'd say thoose who are making big buck on tipping is working in some kind of "finedining/higher establishment" people in thoose jobs usually tend to get alot of tips even in a culture where tipping isnt really a part of it, so it might not even be that bad for them if the bottom get raised and tipping disappears

2

u/BrideofClippy Jan 15 '22

Nope. I am sure they make good money, but you can still make very good money at an average restaurant too. But it is easier to be in a bad situation like stuck on slump shifts or getting minimal tables.

4

u/Tots795 Jan 15 '22

Yes for awhile, but eventually people will stop.

1

u/Minute_Minimum_149 Jan 15 '22

I wouldn't tip if wages went up. Hell I don't tip as it is

0

u/post_pudding Jan 15 '22

You're kinda a cunt then 🤷‍♂️

Or don't go out to eat

1

u/kidmuaddib3 Jan 15 '22

From what I have seen where I live when they pay a living wage they no longer accept gratuity. One place in particular said if you would like to leave a tip they would donate it to a charity that had to do with independent farmers they work with IIRC. These places were paying upwards of 20$ an hour, also IIRC it was a while ago. I knew anecdotally however from working in restaurants myself people coveted those jobs so I guess they were happy with the tradeoff

0

u/post_pudding Jan 15 '22

Hmmm... sounds like a way to get tax breaks from peoples goodwill. Tip cash, give directly to the staff, if you feel so inclined, at these places.

1

u/kidmuaddib3 Jan 15 '22

Like I said they strongly discourage your inclination to tip. It's a solid movement in the foodservice industry but the eternal question of the model is can you present it in a way to get people to pay slightly more.

1

u/COhighroller303 Jan 15 '22

Most restaurants that raise pay to "liveable wage" start refusing customers tips and makes it a point not to tip them

1

u/scrollingtraveler Jan 15 '22

Yes they definitely do. Go to other countries that pay high wages to everyone. The tip is very small because people know they make 15-18 Euro an hour. Sometimes if you tip “American” style they are actually insulted. In Italy especially. My experience living in Europe.

1

u/brainonvacation78 Jan 15 '22

Not true. In countries that pay a decent wage, tipping is not customary

1

u/Lana0505 Jan 15 '22

Yes exactly! But they would get the tips as a bonus not as a necessity to have livable wages.

1

u/edee160 Jan 15 '22

Exactly. Those who tip (for good or bad service) will still tip, unless explicitly told not to tip by the business; and even then, they will slip a top-notch server a little something extra.

1

u/yolo-yoshi Jan 15 '22

( the guy above you )Seriously I hate fucking people like this that say shit like that. Just because it works out for y’all doesn’t fucking make it ok. Especially when millions in the industry suffer for it.

1

u/Aegi Jan 15 '22

I would definitely stop giving as much of my tip to the server, and I would make sure that the kitchen was receiving a greater percentage of my tips than the server since, they’re the ones actually making the food that’s worth eating.

1

u/MyzMyz1995 Jan 15 '22

Why would you tip than ? Do you tip at the grocery store, at the car manufacturer, at your bank... ? Tip just don't make sense. The only people who want to keep it are people who make banks out of it and owners.

1

u/Transmutate Jan 15 '22

Wages go up, food prices go up, people tip less because they know the servers are making more money on base pay. Can confirm I have multiple family members and friends who are servers and they all would prefer it to be this way rather than have a higher wage and less tip-obligatory culture

1

u/[deleted] Jan 15 '22

[removed] — view removed comment

1

u/AutoModerator Jan 15 '22

We require all Reddit accounts to be at least 3 days old before posting. This is due to people being banned and immediately setting up new accounts. This message is not accusing you of doing that, but that is why the policy is in place.

In rare cases, if you have a particularly time-sensitive message, we may manually approve a message. Otherwise we encourage you to wait the 3 days (72 hours) and try again.

I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.

19

u/Kalamath666 Jan 15 '22

I knew servers/bartenders at at restaurant I used to work at raking in a comfortable six figures. Some people would definitely fight losing their tips. The range of what you can make is too wide so there's always going to be resistance no matter the direction you go.

21

u/DiceyWater Jan 15 '22

I really hate this argument. It's usually heavily regional, a minority of servers, and it boils down to "I'm getting mine, so fuck anyone else." All it does is keep the boss happy.

1

u/CIassic_Ghost Jan 15 '22 edited Jan 15 '22

And the reason they make 6 figures is because the establishment charges insane prices. $18 cocktails and $30 appetizers are common in my city. Minimum 20% gratuity on a $200 tab (2 drinks and an entree each) adds up really quick.

Minimum wage is $12.50/hr. That means our server makes roughly $52.50/hr for just our table alone and we’re subsidizing 75% of it. Restaurant business is a friggin racket

No disrespect to servers/bartenders

1

u/OrvilleCaptain Jan 15 '22

As a datapoint all restaurants in my area that offered a living wage and refused tips went out of business. All the waiters in the area just preferred tips over a stable living wage. So I think this sentiment is more majority than minority.

0

u/DiceyWater Jan 15 '22

I don't think that's how stats work.

1

u/OrvilleCaptain Jan 15 '22

I think you just want to be disgruntled.

0

u/DiceyWater Jan 15 '22

That doesn't logically follow from what was said.

Saying "in my area, etc is the norm" doesn't mean much for something that's a nationwide issue. I pointed out how it's a regional issue too.

That has literally nothing to do with being disgruntled, that's common sense. So I don't know if you're projecting, or what.

1

u/OrvilleCaptain Jan 15 '22 edited Jan 15 '22

So you want a nationwide study that shows waiters prefer $35/hr via tips rather than $20/hr living wage sans tip? Thats how much waiters make at Red Robin btw on average in the northwest.

If I was projecting you’d be a successful multi-millionaire.

0

u/DiceyWater Jan 15 '22

I think it would depend on the study- since I've seen some that are formatted in a really biased way. They either gloss over the sample size (sometimes only being a couple hundred participants), or they frame it as a false dichotomy (you're no longer allowed to receive tips in exchange for a living wage).

The latter being relevant, because it's how you just framed it. You're framing it as a loss from the beginning in order to game the response.

And I don't really understand your last comment- are you saying you're a "successful multi-millionaire?" Because that would be a weird flex on this subreddit, especially while you triple down on letting business owners pay workers less, then say I'm the disgruntled one...

→ More replies

4

u/MRK-01 Jan 15 '22

Servers that make 100k+ are in the minority and they can get fucked for the benefit of the majority

3

u/ScheduleExpress Jan 15 '22

Does she tip out the kitchen?

-1

u/dgl7c4 Jan 15 '22

I don’t believe so.

3

u/A_Young_Kirk_Cameron Jan 15 '22

My sister is in the service industry and is one of the people who are very pro tip for the reasons you mentioned. I’m not sure where the idea that the patrons are against serves being paid a flat wage or that we’re against paying higher prices for food.

I already assume when I go out I’ll be adding at least 20% when the bill comes due.

1

u/eth-slum-lord Jan 15 '22

Nah its the job of society to drive down tips until its barely comfortable

7

u/r4tch3t_ Jan 15 '22

I'm from New Zealand. I worked in a bar briefly. There were still plenty of tips, especially if you were serving the rich dudes who liked to flaunt their cash. Plus plenty of people who will just hand you a note for the drinks and walk away. Adds up over the night.

While I could never make as much as your partner I wouldn't want it to be that way, it would feel like I'm taking that money from 1000 other people not lucky enough to work in a fancy place.

On the other hand I've also turned down a $100 tip from an American tourist. I was on coat check, she had just arrived in the country and comes in for a drink hands me her jacket and opens her purse to tip she only had the largest notes and was visably uncomfortable thinking she was obliged to tip and had no suitable cash. I informed her that we get paid a proper wage and tips are for exceptional service, not expected. Hope I made her holiday that much better knowing that prices are inclusive of tax and service here.

1

u/eth-slum-lord Jan 15 '22

Im a aucklander and those fucks at depot expecting a tip has another thing coming

0

u/renaissancechild Jan 15 '22

you're a GC. I bet you made her night much better.

5

u/[deleted] Jan 15 '22 edited Feb 17 '22

[deleted]

5

u/Quik_17 Jan 15 '22

I don’t know a single server that makes less than minimum wage. Have the people advocating to remove tipping culture ever actually worked as a server?

7

u/[deleted] Jan 15 '22

[deleted]

2

u/eliasronaldo Jan 15 '22

I wish I could upvote this a trillion times but I’m 86 on the upvotes

1

u/eth-slum-lord Jan 15 '22

I have eaten out my entirely life 3 meals per day, there is no service ? Its just bring my the menu, take my order on paper, and then 5 mins later bring me the meal, then fuck off and dissapear somewhere.

Thats perfect service and requires no tip ever

2

u/DreamedJewel58 Jan 15 '22

Many waitresses would lose a lot of money if they were only paid wages instead of tips (even if the minimum wage was raised to $15)

2

u/childhoodsurvivor Jan 15 '22

Here's the deal with that. Tips are unstable. You admit this yourself when you say only some benefit greatly. You've also admitted that there are plenty of service workers who live under the poverty line (this is factual, look it up) when you say many "barely scrape by".

Also though, this is not just a wage issue. This is also a HOSTILE WORK ENVIRONMENT issue. Tipping creates increased instances of harassment and sexual harassment. No worker should have to face any type of harassment at their job.

If we actually want robust worker's rights and a living wage in this country then tipping must be abolish. It is, after all, a vestige of slavery. (Tipping began because employers did not want to pay formerly enslaved persons so they allowed them to "work for tips" instead.)

3

u/Quik_17 Jan 15 '22

Exactly this. My sister in law cleans up as a waitress and if she was getting paid minimum wage instead with minimal tips, her income would drop in half. The people getting screwed over with tipping culture are the customers, not the employees.

2

u/lawless636 Jan 15 '22

If I made minimum wage I would never fucking be a server in 1 million years

3

u/redditorwithoutanam Jan 15 '22

Facts. The only reason anyone puts up with that shit is for the tips.

Nobody is working a Friday or Saturday night until close for minimum wage.

1

u/butinthewhat Jan 15 '22 edited Jan 15 '22

That depends on where you work. Your partners experience is not the norm. Also, $50k a year is barely a living wage (edit) depending on where you are. I thought that was clear from the first sentence but I guess it was not. My apologies.

4

u/BigWithABrick Jan 15 '22

Also depends on who you are. Iirc, POC often get less money out of tip dependent jobs than their white counterparts.

1

u/butinthewhat Jan 15 '22

Yes, thank you for adding that. Working for tips isn’t an across the board thing. And why do we think any servers shouldn’t make good money? They provide an important service and I’d be cool with $15 plus tips.

1

u/ccyosafbridge Jan 15 '22

Thats why my restaurant tip pools 🤷‍♀️

3

u/RedditWillSlowlyDie Jan 15 '22

$50K is $24 an hours. That's a pretty good wage for most of the country outside of major cities.

-1

u/butinthewhat Jan 15 '22

Yes. That’s why I said it depends on where.

3

u/MasterPimpinMcGreedy Jan 15 '22

If I made 50k a year where I live and continued living the exact same lifestyle (which is extremely comfortable already) I’d be saving up to an additional $1,400 a month. What is livable depends on where you live.

0

u/butinthewhat Jan 15 '22

Yes. That’s why I said it depends on where.

3

u/MasterPimpinMcGreedy Jan 15 '22

But you said also said “50k a year is barely a living wage.”

1

u/dgl7c4 Jan 15 '22

That depends on where you live. I’m in the Midwest and while I’m underpaid for my field, I’m definitely not struggling. I own a house and two cars and insure my family of 3. I realize that food service isn’t some high paying luxurious job, but I do think what I said holds true for a lot of people, though I’m very much on the side of killing tip culture and raising wages.

0

u/butinthewhat Jan 15 '22

Yes, that’s why I said it depends on where.

1

u/guyyugguyyug Jan 15 '22

Best of both worlds, pay livable wage, make tipping non expected, but still suggested for good service. Like now 15% is minimum, 18% or 20% or 22% are for good or great service. Make it 0% expected, 5% or 10% for good servicd

1

u/Money_Perspective311 Jan 15 '22

Yeah, if you are a cute 20s female, you will make bank as a server.

1

u/[deleted] Jan 15 '22

[deleted]

1

u/eth-slum-lord Jan 15 '22

I tip people 1$ to balance the force

1

u/PapaDuckD Jan 15 '22

Good servers are one of the reasons tipping will never go away.

They can make bank in the right place with the right hustle.

1

u/Flcrmgry at work Jan 15 '22

But she should be making a livable hourly wage + tips.

1

u/TequilaAndJazz Jan 15 '22 edited Jan 15 '22

It doesn’t have to be $15/hr though.

1

u/Cobek Jan 15 '22

I've known people in budtending or cannabis delivery drivers who make minimum wage and still earn 50k through additional tips

1

u/John_Browns_Body59 Jan 15 '22

Glad you said this, in restaurants usually the servers make the MOST money compared to the cooks/bussers/dishwashers. I used to work as a cook in college at same place as my sister, she'd make more working 15 hours a week than I did working 40+

1

u/MRK-01 Jan 15 '22

Why not both? This isn't an either/or issue. Make it a livable wage + tips that the server keeps. This isn't a complicated issue. If the resturant can't pay non slave labor wages, the resturamt shouldn't be running.

1

u/Noughmad Jan 15 '22

There’s no way in hell that a “livable wage” would come close to what she’s making off of tips.

Please explain why not. If they include the tips in the price of food, and include the same amount in the servers' pay. The customers pays the same, the owner keeps the same, the server makes the same. Nobody loses anything. Why is this impossible?

1

u/allstarrunner Jan 15 '22

It sounds like you are trying to justify it lol I think the main problem with it is although there are experiences like yours, there are also just as many that are getting the shaft, and the reason the others can get the shaft is because there isn't a law protecting everyone. Some people will have good bosses and employers who still treat servers well, but there are just as many (or more) that clearly use this as a way to offload costs to the end customer (but really offloading the cost to their own server when the customer decides not to pick up the cost by not tipping)

1

u/eth-slum-lord Jan 15 '22

So we should be tipping way less is what youre saying

1

u/home_coming Jan 15 '22

This makes me think that tipping culture is not just wanted by restaurant owners but also the waiters. People on this thread complaining that restaurants should give livable wage. But no one actually wants just the livable wage. Tipping ensures that people with really good service skills work as waiter and they get paid handsome salary. The only real loss is of people eating in that restaurant. Say you want to at a really good restaurant for their food. For that you need to pay good tip also and vice versa.

1

u/Previous-Can-6150 Jan 15 '22

True usually tipping jobs are best when you work for a small business like a coffee shop my girl gets paid 10$ a hour but makes about 800-1200 a week

1

u/TeddersTedderson idle Jan 15 '22

Yeah I worked for several years waiting tables in London where a) minimum wage is bad (currently £9.50 / $13) but not unliveable and b) tipping is very much discretionary and only really considered optional for good service and also c) worked in a pub where most people don't tip, not a restaurant, albeit a pub in Chelsea which is a rich area.

I would almost always make more money in cash tips then I did in salary pay, despite tipping not even being a cultural thing in British pubs.

A decent, liveable minimum wage is not a barrier to those who think they can earn more from excelling within a tipping culture. People will always reward good service.

A decent, liveable minimum wage doesn't stop people tipping.

Tipping culture, combined with a federal minimum that seems more akin to 1985, is fuckin poisonous and breeds exploitation. Those who think it's a "better" system are lucky, but should think about those who are not.

1

u/kartianmopato Jan 15 '22

Now a crazy idea; paying Staff livable wage doesn't mean they won't get tips. I live in Europe. My partner is a waitress, she makes around 15 euros per hour and still gets tipped out of almost every table because she provides a quality service. Where did you get the idea that without obligatory tips there will be no tips?

1

u/uankaf Jan 15 '22

Why you think people would stop giving tips, that's a fear you guys got in your head.. you got your service fee and them tip the waitress when you paid, it's not obligation in other parts of the world but is an option. And people still do, but the fact that you guys made it some morale obligation blows my mind.

1

u/qgsdhjjb Jan 15 '22

There are more low-earning servers than there are high-earning servers, by the numbers. And if a high earner can't envision a life where they allow those low earners to start earning enough to pay their bills and survive, I'm not gonna feel sorry for them. If they're that good, surely they have skills that would transfer to another field if suddenly serving became a less enticing career, but also, the people earning more are earning more because their restaurant is earning more and would obviously have the ability to pay more than a restaurant that is earning less. If all their servers quit because of lowered pay, they'd find a way to keep employees because the alternative is going out of business. And if they can't, well, no business that can't afford to pay a living wage from their own profits, not the customers' pockets, doesn't deserve to exist anyways.

1

u/vidtekcod Jan 15 '22 edited Jan 15 '22

Every server I know makes 50-130k. They would make 30-40k with regular untip pays, cook at these place makes 30-40 max. Of course these is place where people make less than minimum wages. But the industry won't change because everyone wants the 100k opportunity to grind on tips. Tip culture is there to stay and not even close to go away, specially in the bar industry where people often make over 80K working 3 nights a week.

1

u/RomulanWarrior Jan 30 '22

She must work in either an expensive restaurant or someplace like Hooters.

1

u/dgl7c4 Jan 31 '22

Nah just a really busy Mexican restaurant in a college town.

1

u/RomulanWarrior Feb 05 '22

That works, too.

0

u/wickedfemale Jan 15 '22

i make $15/hour + tips, which is what i feel like should be standard everywhere, but yeah tipping is awesome and i legitimately love tip culture. i love tipping people (and receiving tips, obviously) — it’s one of the only forms of mutual aid that’s the default social custom in the hellscape that is the us. but i never understand when people are against tipping / want to do away with it, for me it’s legitimately one of my favorite aspects of eating out / getting my hair or nails done / etc. (my hairdresser actually stopped accepting gratuity / changed their pricing structure accordingly and it honestly bummed me out a bit even tho it saves me money overall). it feels so nice to be able to reward someone for a job well done in such a tangible way.

0

u/eth-slum-lord Jan 15 '22

Sounds like some weird socialist shit

1

u/wickedfemale Jan 15 '22

totally — socialism is awesome.

0

u/penislovereater Jan 15 '22

$15 isn't a liveable wage. If minimum wage kept track with productivity and inflation, you'd be bringing home more than $50k.

If the emotional work (always being "on") of servers was fairly remunerated, it'd probably be a six figure job.

2

u/dgl7c4 Jan 15 '22

Yeah I know. That is why I put quotes on livable wage. Because that’s what this national push has been, despite the fact that 15/hr isn’t enough at all.

0

u/antisara Jan 15 '22

100% no one is gunna pay me the 50 dollars an hour I make in tips.

0

u/KingBillyDuckHoyle Jan 15 '22

I've tried ro explain to people that tipping is the only way for the service industry to work the way it does here in the states. Having spent 10 years as a server, I would never ever serve tables for any set wage that an employer would agree to pay.

Regarding the restaurant not paying a liveable wage- As the patrons of said restaurant- the lifeblood of said restaurant- YOU are going to pay that wage whether it's in tip form or in the form of raised prices to cover increased wages. And that will likely result in the server receiving even less as the money moves through more hands.

Honestly, I think that if a person hasn't served at multiple restaurants they should just follow the social contract that is in place and shut the hell up about tipping.

1

u/eth-slum-lord Jan 15 '22

I love tipping culture because i can eat the food and pay less by not tipping

0

u/OrvilleCaptain Jan 15 '22

Yeah the people on here are just uninformed. An average Red Robin waiter makes $30-$40/hr. A waiter at a fancy place can make $80-$100/hr. All restaurants in my area that offered a living wage sans tip went under because no restaurant workers wanted that. Servers don’t want a living wage, they want tips.