r/antiwork Jan 14 '22

So sorry, I'm broke so I can only pay you $77 for my food. You were great though.

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30.2k Upvotes

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6.8k

u/Erect_Llama Jan 15 '22

One of the biggest things in America I'll never understand is why tipping is so important. Like why tf can't the server's get paid a decent wage? Why do they live off of tips?

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u/meghammatime19 Jan 15 '22

Save the restaurant a pretty penny 必必必必必必

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u/Kind_Man_0 Jan 15 '22 edited Jan 15 '22

Saves A LOT of them.

Typical paycheck for a full time waitress is about $60 or so. Let's run the math from dinner rush to close.

That is $12 for a full night's wages, Given that the cook making the meals gets paid about $14/hr that puts us at $84, so $96 for the pair of them

One waitress where I worked could have waited about 70 tables til close,

I wasn't in charge of food purchasing, but a typical meal for 4 was simple; most sides were ready made for the night, only entrees were consistently cooked to order. So at roughly $30 dollars for a table of 2, we will run that at 2.5 per table to account for larger groups. Over the course of the rush, we could serve about 300 tables in a night BUT we will consider only that one waitress and cook for this math. At $30 per table, your restaurant made $2100 off the labor of those two employee

Takes out food costs, which is about 1/4 of it, you just made a profit $1479

Pay our hardworking wait staff what the deserve in this country.

YES, I know I am not calculating in rent and other restaurant expenses. I am making a point of how the backbone of a functioning restaurant earns the lowest overhead cost.

Let me add to this a second time since some people are mad at me for not considering the other expenses.

I laid down the basic math for how much money can be made during a 6 hour shift from 5-11. This is not how much profit you are making, this is REVENUE GENERATED per employee.

Yes, if I wait tables and I go in for 6 hours, bust out 60 tables at $5 a piece, that is decent income. But it doesn't happen every night. And you don't go home right after the restaurant closes.

Most restaurants are going to have you helping shut down after close for $2.13/hr and there are no customers to tip you.

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u/Cerael Jan 15 '22

I like where the cooks make 14 flat and are doing more labor.

I didn't say servers don't work hard but the work required to cook that much often goes unappreciated in these posts.

Let's include all restaurant workers. Corporate spots don't tip cooks ever

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u/lawless636 Jan 15 '22

If cooks made more I would cook. Having to deal with the customers is honestly the worst part of the fucking job so youre gonna have to pay me money to deal with you. Honestly Id rather wash dishes for 20 bucks an hour then deal with the fucking customers. It is a soul sucking job.

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u/firesoups Jan 15 '22

The customers are WHY I cook. I like working in restaurants, every aspect. Its fun. Ive worked every position in front and back of house. After almost 20 years, I stay in the kitchen. Customers are exhausting.

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u/Gildian Jan 15 '22

Worked for McDonald's for 5ish years so not quite the same as a nicer restaurant cook per se but God damn shifts working the counter were pure hell most days. I basically begged to be put on grill or assembly

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u/lmp0stor Jan 15 '22

"Let me explain something to you, Dave. There are two kinds of angry people in this world: explosive and implosive. Explosive is the kind of individual you see screaming at the cashier for not taking their coupons. Implosive is the cashier who remains quiet day after day and finally SHOOTS everyone in the store. You're the cashier."

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u/JediWarrior79 Jan 15 '22

LOVE that movie!!!

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u/hrnigntmare Jan 15 '22

When I waited tables I made it a point to get trained in back and work the line once a week just so I wouldnt forget how bad it is. I used to get so pissed at the cooks before I actually worked the line and afterwards that stopped immediately.

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u/[deleted] Jan 15 '22

Last place I cooked they had us do the dishes as well and they capped us at $12/hr. Im pretty sure everyone would wash dishes for $20/hr.

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u/BorderlineBarbieUwU Jan 15 '22

at least in the dish pit at some corporate places you'll be allowed to have a music player to help you lessen the fucking monotony of the dish pit

source: former dish dog

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u/[deleted] Jan 15 '22

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u/Mission-Run-7474 Jan 15 '22

I dont know why uoure being downvoted. What fancy ass restaurant is paying dishwashers 20 an hour?

2

u/firesoups Jan 15 '22

Our cooks and dishwashers make the same $20 an hour. Owner says hes trying to change the industry from the inside, but that only applies to our slightly above average wages for the area. We still dont have PTO, insurance, or any other benefits.

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u/[deleted] Jan 15 '22

Didnt you read the fucking cook, the reason a fucking restaurant exists and what makes it breaks it gets paid 14 an hour? Why the fuck would they pay you 20 for washing dishes?

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u/[deleted] Jan 15 '22

In the rare instance that a restaurant actually takes care of their staff, it's not unheard of for BOH to make $20+/hr and that includes the dishwasher.

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u/dazedconfusedev Jan 15 '22

our dishwashers make $20/h, and are actually the highest paid hourly BOH staff. Obviously chefs make more, but theyre all salaried. And since FOH all get tipped minimum, the company pays dishwashers more than any other hourly employee.

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u/[deleted] Jan 15 '22

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u/Dull_Entrepreneur_43 Jan 15 '22

The place I waitressed at was owned by a old Asian lady who had the place for like 30 years. She kept the same old Thai cook, head Chinese chef, & dishwasher for 30 years Bc she paid those 3 up the ass. The Thai lady wanted to retire but my boss offered even more money to stay. People that care about their workers and want them to stay will make it work

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u/dazedconfusedev Jan 15 '22

I am too tired but I actually do not understand what youre saying. Servers and Hosts arent back of house. All of the people making your food are. The guy pushing out 30 filets an hour at $40 each makes like $18. The only people in BOH that make more than dishwashers are the managers, aka the ones that rarely actually cook. And for FOH we have runners, bussers, bartenders, baristas, porters, and bar backs.

Its a nicer (but not fine dining) restaurant in a nice part of town, but COL is pretty low once you get like 10-15 mins from the restaurant.

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u/[deleted] Jan 15 '22

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u/dazedconfusedev Jan 15 '22

I get what youre saying now. I think there is a misunderstanding between us in what chef means. At this restaurant, and all the others ive worked at actually, chef is a title only for BOH managers. Its the general term for the Executive Chef, Assistant Executive Chefs, and Sous Chefs. Everyone else in the kitchen is a line cook, prep cook, or pastry chef (except that pastry chefs are just line cooks who work pastry, theyre still paid a shitty hourly wage). Id guess our entire BOH is around 50 employees, 5 of which are salaried.

I think at nicer restaurants their line cooks are given the chef title and paid more, but as far as I know most of them are still hourly.

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u/Jrjosh2 Jan 15 '22

I make close to 20 after starting as a dishwasher in the kitchen less than year ago. Our dishwashers start at 16 here with no experience. Wages have been driven up at the places willing to pay out

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u/[deleted] Jan 15 '22

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u/firesoups Jan 15 '22

What does that even mean

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u/P47r1ck- Jan 15 '22

Im sure he moved up to line cook or just stayed a dishwasher but makes more money now

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u/MoneyBear1733 Jan 15 '22

The nature of most jobs is that your boss pays you to deal with the people. The customer has no responsibility to pay you to be nice to them. A job is a job.

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u/lawless636 Jan 15 '22

Well as of right now the way serving is set up yes youre paying us to be nice to you. If you dont like it cook your own fucking food.

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u/MoneyBear1733 Jan 15 '22

You're not even the one cooking the food, and the one who is, isn't getting the tip. You just sound entitled.

Tip culture is not paying people to be nice to you. It's a guilt trip transaction that is equivalent to church tithes at this point.

Your boss should be the one paying you to be nice to people, and I sleep perfectly fine knowing that it's not my responsibility to pay your wage.

3

u/lawless636 Jan 16 '22

Actually its about my cooks 18% so you can eat a dick. And they get paid far more than me in hourly. Guess who gets blamed if the cook fucks up the food? Its me. guess who has to deal with pissed off customers its me. Just tell me you have an actually worked in the service industry because its pretty fucking clear you dont get how this works at all and you dont get how stressful and soul sucking dealing with people like you is. You sound like the one that is entitled because you have no fucking idea what we actually do or what we deal with. Just remember Karma is a bitch.

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u/MoneyBear1733 Jan 16 '22

I'm speaking from a place of having worked on kitchen lines for nearly a decade out of highschool.

I'd be willing to bet my left nut that you make considerably more than every line cook you work with, yet still bitch and moan that they get paid just above minimum wage.

Servers who complain about people not tipping them are either dead ends working in a bad restaurant, in a small city. Or just wildly entitled people. career servers are smart enough to move to where there's better work.

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u/[deleted] Jan 16 '22

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u/MoneyBear1733 Jan 16 '22

Servers are one of the biggest active proponents for tip culture. There is a split in the industry between people who live in locations with a thriving service industry and those who don't. Unfortunately those who benefit from the culture are a much more powerful voice in the discussion.

Those who don't obviously want higher baseline wages in lieu of tips, which I agree with. This is what the entire workforce and this sub is working towards.

Those who do live in thriving areas and benefit off of the culture are obviously against this. From a stance that is essentially the equivalent to that of the ultra rich. "I don't want to give up all this extra money i'm making"

This is in no way contradictory.

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u/eth-slum-lord Jan 15 '22

Whats there to deal with, you just take the order and bring the food then fuck off , unless you are in a 3 star restaraurant i dont expect the waitress to be doing anything else

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u/[deleted] Jan 15 '22

Youve clearly never worked in customer service or the food industry before

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u/eth-slum-lord Jan 15 '22

Ive eaten out every meal in the last 10 years. Literally my dialogue with every waiter is , i want this this that, thanks. Okay heres the credit card thanks . Bye

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u/firesoups Jan 15 '22

Do you know what sub youre in? Why are you shitting on another worker?

1

u/Geoarbitrage Jan 16 '22

$20 bucks an hour? Where do you live Santa Barbara? Montecito?

58

u/Abbaddonhope Jan 15 '22

Cant they just pay everyone involved more

51

u/Lonely_Animator4557 Jan 15 '22

They could but that could decrease profits and decrease stock value which would anger the investors and cause them to switch cfo or ceo or some other multi million dollar position which they cant

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u/[deleted] Jan 15 '22

Most restaurants aren't publicly traded and have no obligation to stock holders. It's purely the restaurant owner being a greedy sociopath most of the time lmao

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u/Lonely_Animator4557 Jan 15 '22

Still feeds into the point that the people in charge of the company are looking out for themselves Publicly traded companies take this a step further by shifting blame away from the money hoarding c level execs to the stock holders which in the USA something like 10% of the population owns 90% of the stock market

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u/goldenopal42 Jan 15 '22

Theyre usually working with some kind of borrowed/invested money though. If only for accounting purposes. That money will move to a different industry where the employees can be exploited better.

Sad fact of American capitalism is the best way to ensure your service person gets paid enough to continue to perform the service you want is to give them the money directly.

I am not saying its a great system, but I dont understand why people are so put off by it either.

I dont want to pay you. The one I am interacting with. The one here actually doing the work for me. I want to pay your boss and let him figure out what you should earn.

Why? I dont get it.

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u/Abbaddonhope Jan 15 '22

Yeah treating your workers like their people decreases stock value

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u/Cerael Jan 15 '22

Cmon lad chin up, thats what this whole movement is about.

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u/marker_dinova Jan 15 '22

It goes much further than that. Sometimes we talk about investors like a round table of Illuminati shrouded in shadows. But the reality is that if we own 401Ks, IRAs, any index fund, or even some Insurance products, we are have a seat at that round table. If we dont see that graph pointing upwards for a few quarters/years, were calling up our financial advisers. Sometimes its even automated. Our entire economy is based on forcing every business to grow continually. When they cant do it organically theyll do it any way possible: reduce quality and/or screw their employees. Its unsustainable because infinite growth doesnt exist.

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u/NumerousHelicopter6 Jan 15 '22

不不不 decrease the stock value.....as if all restaurants are corporate

It wouldn't decrease profits it would most likely increase them. Think about it if you force the restaurant to pay $20 an hour and the restaurant averages forty $12 burgers an hour, they do this with two servers both with 4 table sections and they were paying them $4 per hour. So that's an increase of $16 per hour X 2 = $32. Now that the owner has to come up with an additional $32 an hour just to maintain, do you think he adds a dollar to the burger, or do you think he only marks up the exact amount to cover the expense? We both know what happens here whether we agree with it or not.

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u/machen2307 Jan 15 '22

Lol big olive garden would like to have a word

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u/[deleted] Jan 15 '22

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u/[deleted] Jan 15 '22

So you are willing to pay more for your meal if its included in the price, but not if you have to add it as a tip? Im not sure what the logic here is - if tipping were eliminated and wages went up, the cost of the meal would rise commensurately. Youre still paying extra for the service - you just dont get to choose how much or how little you pay as you do with a tip.

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u/pancitoyorugua Jan 15 '22

They can... But they would not do it because legally can get away with that!

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u/dobriygoodwin Jan 15 '22

If they would, then half of population of US would not be able to afford restaurant. High end restaurants work stuff is usually in union and work for salary, but bills there are around 150-200$/person. That's what was really disturbing, people complaining to me(waiter) about tips they need to leave, but shrugging idea, that if I would be working only on salary (11-14 hours a day) the prices would not be the same.

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u/Send_Your_Noods_plz Jan 15 '22

Every server in the industry knows cooks are being gyped. Just ask them to take a kitchen shft. The only way to make money in a restaurant is to be a server or a manager, and that shouldnt be a secret but it is. If you work in a kitchen just stop. Dont kill yourself for less money than you could make stocking shelves at target. If the idea of customer service and faking being nice is scary, just know everyone is faking it and eating shit and apologizing for things that are not your fault doesnt really matter, especially if you dont mean it... and the secret is you dont really have to. Your words are your representation... youll never see these people again so fuck em. Say whatever you have to say to get through the day, just like you have to do whatever you have to do to get the job done

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u/Cerael Jan 15 '22

While youre right its also a fairly selfish mindset. I give a shit about my community and the people in it, and it matters if people other than me are being exploited.

Ive fought for industry people before and I dont plan to stop.

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u/[deleted] Jan 15 '22

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u/[deleted] Jan 15 '22

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u/[deleted] Jan 15 '22

Yeah, say that word in a professional setting and I'm sure that'll be the excuse you give HR during your termination lol. It's blatantly a slur against Romani people - it comes from the derogatory term "gypsy" and more specifically roots itself in the stereotype that they would rip you off and scam you, hence you'd get "gyped". Roma have a long and nasty history of oppression, and were even euthanized en masse alongside Jewish people in the Holocaust. It'd be like saying you got kike'd

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u/[deleted] Jan 15 '22

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u/Wtfisthatkid716 Jan 15 '22

I leave my cooking job after today to go be an EMT. Cooking is so underpaid.

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u/Cerael Jan 15 '22

Congrats man, I leave after the weekend. Feels good to get out

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u/Wtfisthatkid716 Jan 15 '22

Congrats to you too! I agree. Im tired of the ever changing schedule and being underpaid. I liked cooking at first but after a few years it really wore me down. Not for me. The customers oddly are why I went to cooking, but also the only reason I kept doing it. Always felt good to have someone say they like the food you made.

Im out though. The owners are so unappreciative. Im only going in today because i appreciate my fellow cooks who I know will be hurting if I dont come in during the game tonight. Otherwise Id say fuck it.

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u/Aegi Jan 15 '22

No, might be more emotionally stressful, and thats only sometimes, but its objectively easier to be a server then to be a chef, to be fair Ive only been a line cook, but Ive done both and its absolutely easy as fuck to be a server, its only emotionally challenging sometimes, which is the same with any customer-facing industry.

Also servers rarely work an eight hour shift each day, whereas thats much more common place in most kitchens, additionally servers almost always get paid more than the cook/chefs except for during very slow times or at certain very nice restaurants where the chef is really valued by the owners.

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u/SuddenClearing Jan 15 '22

This is always so interesting to me like, do other servers not tip out boh? That was a requirement for us and they made us count it at the bar.

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u/Aegi Jan 15 '22

Even at places where this happens I've never once met or hear of anyone that tipped out based on 100% of their tips (I have heard of people who maybe did this for a month or few at most, then switched their practices, but only when it was their first job, and generally right out of high school).

Most people at least round down when reporting their cash tips, many take a buck or few, or a large/special tip straight to their pocket.

I'm not making any judgements in this comment, just explaining my experience.

But I've worked at a few restaurants, FoH and BoH, and only once did I work in a place where they tipped out more than the bartender, but even then the hardest job (dishwasher) wasn't tipped out, when that would sometimes literally fuck up the kitchen more than a chef leaving b/c if you get a replacement chef in 30 minutes you might not get that behind, but if you can't have someone cleaning dishes that long, you could literally run out of some cookware haha.

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u/brainonvacation78 Jan 15 '22

Nor should they when cooks make over min wage and servers make server wage. Pay me what a cook makes and then we can chat about splitting tips

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u/ScoopJr Jan 15 '22

Depends on the state.

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u/brainonvacation78 Jan 15 '22

We're talking about reality for the majority of the US. I'm a server (on the side, I have a solid M-F career but I also got a kid in college that I refuse to send out into the world saddled in debt plus I'm amazing at serving and love it) and I make $5+ hr plus tips. Without those tips, I wouldn't work as a server. I make $37/hr at my primary job. I make $20-$45/hr with tips serving. And if I don't, I won't work there anymore. I'm not running my ass off for you for under $20/hr. A "living wage" is NOT $15/hr. Those are still poverty wages. ESPECIALLY when supporting a family.

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u/Cerael Jan 15 '22

Your brain really is on vacation.

You type up that nonsense that isnt relevant, about your personal life. Your average take home per hour is certainly more than the cooks.

Youre just a shitty, selfish server. So what if the cooks are making $2 an hour over minimum wage when your take home is at least $20/hr on average.

Whats your tip percentage? Avg tables/hr?

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u/brainonvacation78 Jan 15 '22

Who fucking pissed in your Cheerios this morning?? My personal life is absofuckinglutely relevant based on this sub. I CAN'T SUPPORT MY FAMILY WITHOUT 2 SOLID INCOMES AND I ALREADY HAVE A FULL TIME JOB. Did you understand that at all?

Next: I make less than minimum wage based on the understanding that tips will make up for it. Cooks (not chefs, which is different) accept their hourly at hire. I tip out my expo, host and bartenders. Cooks tip out shit nada. My avg differs during the season. And I'm one of the most selfless humans ever and you can go fuck right off for attacking me. I'm sooooo selfish for working 2 jobs as as a single mom to help my kid avoid student loan debt lol. You're just a bitter Reddit shit poster and you can kick fucking rocks, sweetheart.

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u/Cerael Jan 15 '22

For someone claiming not to be selfish you said the word I a lot in that wall of text. Its okay to be selfish, but dont pretend youre not self serving

Ive personally gotten over 300k in unpaid back wages to employees at my restaurant, that they were being shorted on their checks.

I also regularly throw out entitled servers who are by the way, required by company policy to tip out other service positions (at every restaurant Ive worked at).

You dont know me and I dont know you, but the way youve acted in this thread is shameful.

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u/ScoopJr Jan 15 '22

I'm not talking about removing tipping. Some states pay 2.13$ per hour for serving and others pay state minimum wage and tips. The minimum wage likely isn't anywhere near livable especially in high cost of living areas.

It would be great for restaurants to pay cook wages to servers but they won't. Why would a cook become a cook if they can simply serve and make the same base pay except now with tips

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u/StayAtHomeAstronaut Jan 15 '22

Or cooks could just get paid more? You know, more inline with their actual worth in a restaurant.

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u/ScoopJr Jan 15 '22

Thats valid too. Cooks end up doing long grueling hours on the line and are there prior to restaurant open and there after restaurant close

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u/brainonvacation78 Jan 15 '22

Cooking and serving are 2 totally different skill sets. Almost all of my cooks lack the social skills I have. You've clearly never worked in a restaurant,

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u/vurjin_oce Jan 15 '22

"Hi can I take your order"

takes order, reads back, leaves

brings food out, makes sure its all ok, gets drink and do refills

Cook has to cook multiple different types of foods and styles for 1 table and it has to taste and look good.

I'd say the cooks skill set is higher than a server.

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u/brainonvacation78 Jan 15 '22

I'd say you never had to deal with the people who don't like the ambiance, who want plastic utensils vs the silver you rolled into a linen napkin, who don't like the size of the plate their food is served on, who order bacon wrapped dates and unwrap and leave the bacon... and don't think twice about the cook. But go on...

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u/TheRealWeapon Jan 15 '22

Ive been a server, being a cook is harder lol

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u/vurjin_oce Jan 15 '22

I'd rather leave a tip for the cook who had cooked the food the way I like it. If the steak is how I asked, blue, rare, medium rare, medium, medium well done, well done. If the pasta is al dente, the sauce the right consistency. All that is waaaay harder than listening to some customers and then getting them some plastic or silver forks or cleaning off their plates.

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u/Smokweid Jan 15 '22

Yeah, your social skills are coming across strongly in this thread!

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u/brainonvacation78 Jan 15 '22

And your user name checks out too!

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u/ScoopJr Jan 15 '22

Yea, great deduction there, bud

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u/brainonvacation78 Jan 15 '22

Am I wrong, bud?

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u/Violet624 Jan 15 '22

The cooks aren't doing more labor than the servers. I call between 10-12 miles a day at my job as a server, and that is just what my feet are doing. I agree line cooks are often underpaid, but serving is also difficult.

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u/Cerael Jan 15 '22

Want to see my step counter with regularly 8-12 miles (I admit on slower days its not as much). Not to mention standing in front of a hot grill, saut矇 station and fryers.

Ive done both at 30k+ volume a day restaurants and 15k a day restaurants and while they are both hard work, cooking high volume is more strenuous work.

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u/BBCreeks Jan 15 '22

Walking hurta and stress after work for hours need alcohol calm down not even weed works for hours sometimes or cracker barrel worked at busiest one in nation tables ouch feet no tray jacks 30lbs one hand im a man so ouch but hot waitresses hug on u and stuff and naked parties cooks don't always get to go to

I've worked kitchen 7 yrs and tables 3 yrs or 2

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u/IceBear_42 Jan 15 '22

Cooks don't need tips.....

They already make a flat rate 3-4x servers.

Not saying that all the staff shouldn't be paid better, but adding tips to cooks pay is not an answer...

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u/Cerael Jan 15 '22

If it wasn't clear already

I didn't say cooks should receive tips. They should be compensated more. Tipping should be abolished as a standard. Pay servers the same as cooks for all I care.

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u/Ok_Relative_5180 Jan 15 '22

Cooks make decent money they're not messed up

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u/Always1behind Jan 15 '22

Where in the world do you live? In my neck of America cooks are consistently priced out of the cities that they work in

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u/Cerael Jan 15 '22

To anyone in the industry your comment reads as sarcastic because thats so obviously not true lol

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u/snake_running Jan 15 '22

I served at a place where we tip pooled, and cooks were included in that. But I heard that they got a pay cut when they started doing that. Just another way to put the burden on the customer.

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u/[deleted] Jan 15 '22

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u/Cerael Jan 15 '22

Thats definitely not standard in the industry, sounds like a high end place! Ive literally never heard of a serving stag矇 haha.

That being said, there are restaurants Ive worked at which ask the cooks to know many of the things you listed.

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u/-Ok-Perception- Jan 15 '22 edited Jan 15 '22

I've done both. Believe it or not, when shit goes down, the server is going to take the blame for a bad meal (they'll be the one that gets chewed out and they'll be the one who pay gets reduced for it). The cook gets to stay out of the line of fire. Also, there's sometimes several hours where a server can make *less than* 14. And plenty of times they make more.

Being a cook is much more standard employment.

Being a server is all about being fun, happy, and charismatic. It's all about fake friendly which many people, particularly cooks, don't have a "fake friendly" mode. And really the poeple who you see who make considerably more than a cook at those jobs are young attractive women. It's one of those jobs, like bartender, where being super physically attractive and a bit flirty pays in spades. Ugly servers and/or male servers probably make less than 14 an hour on average.

And I believe the owners kind of fan the flames of discord between servers and cooks, because if you guys are at each other's throats fighting for a few cents, you aren't fighting management.

Managing poor employees, like politics, is a game of divide and conquer. They'll keep your rage misdirected at each other so it's not focused on management or the owners. Frequently all places that underpay get people mad at each other so they don't get mad with the people who're actually the problem.

You're all getting fucked. Servers, cooks, bartenders, and bus boys. If you all acted together in solidarity, you could get paid better.

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u/Cerael Jan 15 '22

Well Im management in my current position, but restaurants get labor allotted each week and if they consistently miss it they will be replaced regardless of profits.

Its simply corporate (and competition with these places for locally owned) that keeps the status quo

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u/[deleted] Jan 15 '22

Man this is just straight bullshit lol. I've been a line cook, a kitchen manager, and now a barista and I will absolutely never serve. Serving is a special kind of hell and there's a reason you don't see servers racking up overtime even when it's offered, or why you don't see line cooks willingly leaving the kitchen for FOH very often. Anyone can be a line cook, maybe not a great one but anyone could definitely be a line cook if they wanted. Not everyone can be a server.

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u/Cerael Jan 15 '22

I dont believe you were a kitchen manager at a place doing over even 15k days, tbh.

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u/Theboisyes Jan 15 '22

Dont act like cooks work harder. Its not easier or harder, its a different type of work.

A cook can be back there going fuck you you motherfucker you bitch ass pile of shit.

A server cant do that.

That fake smile might not seem like hard work but it fucking is. Trust me, as a sever if I could be god damn honest it wouldnt be pretty.

Fucking pot heads are the worst imo.

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u/beerandbluegrass Jan 15 '22

my first bartending job was at a corporate restaurant. we only tipped out the busser. I didn't know any better. if I could go back, I'd tip out those guys busting their asses on the line every night.

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u/shawn1301 Jan 15 '22

As a cook that works solo, with a waitress who works solo. She definitely works harder, and deserves to be paid more then myself.

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u/ObligationLow8513 Jan 15 '22

I washed dishes for three solid years between high school and college days.

I dont think a dishwasher makes the most in the kitchen less the chef anywhere. Every job in the back of the house can be hot and unforgiving for hours.

I understand and working with customers in other businesses that they can mentally tear you down as bad as the physical work.

End of the day I think different personalities are suited for different jobs and that goes across the board into every industry. From my perspective a lot of the wait staff at the restaurants I worked at didnt always have the best attitudes towards customers and even though it may be a hard job it all depends on the person doing it and if theyre cut out.

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u/frankie_prince164 Jan 15 '22

My brother was a head chief at a few restaurants. He barely made $36k/year and was worked like a dog. And beacause his food was so great, the servers got the tips and made double what he did.

One day, he looked around and realized he made it to the top of his career, was still broke and surrounded by addicts. He left and had been much happier.

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u/-DaddyDarkLord- Jan 15 '22

You're 1000% wrong that a cook does more work. They both bust their ass open to close.

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u/Alisonwonderland666 Jan 15 '22

Cooks do not do "more" labour. No no no. As a server for the past 10 years im gonna flip you the bird.

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u/Cerael Jan 15 '22

It's okay when I yell at my servers tonight I'll do it with you in mind

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u/erikagm77 Jan 15 '22

Actually, most places require wait staff to tip out half of their tips for the night, which are calculated to AT LEAST 10% of all of their tabs for the night.

So lets say the server in question had 70 tables at $30 each. That would mean they got paid $2100 for food. They are expected to collect at least $210 in tips from that. Out of that amount, they keep $105 and tip out $105, which is then divided amongst hosts, bussers, kitchen staff, bar staff, and any other staff which helps out throughout the night, excluding managers.

So in reality, the wait staff doesnt make as much as you tip them, nor do kitchen staff just work for a basic wage.

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u/[deleted] Jan 15 '22

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u/poki_stick Jan 15 '22

Min wage for tipped jobs is 2.13 or so an hr bit 7.50

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u/seanarturo Jan 15 '22

Its still $7.50 unless the tips push them higher. Otherwise the restaurant has to pay whatever the difference is to get the wait staff to $7.50.

CA and 8 other states dont even have a tipping wage. They pay the same minimum wage as other jobs.

We really need to abolish tipping wage federally. Thats the only way wait staff pay will ever increase.

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u/Wordwench Jan 15 '22

He means about $2 an hour and not 7.50.

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u/Am-i-old-yet Jan 15 '22

Some states allow you to pay servers less than minimum wage as long as their tips work out to them being paid more than minimum wage.

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u/Aegi Jan 15 '22 edited Jan 15 '22

No, the US Federal Government makes it so that all servers must be paid minimum wage, but as long as that employee is taking home at least minimum wage divided by the hours they worked, then the employer is only required to pay $2.13 per hour of their take-home pay.

It is illegal for any regular employee in the US to take home less than either the federal, or their states minimum wage, whichever is higher.

Lol, Im going to be a little bit condescending, although this is directed at everybody reading this, not just you the person Im replying to:

and people wonder why we (as a society) are easily taken advantage of by certain leaders and politicians and celebrities and things like that. When people dont even understand a law thats been in place for more than a decade, when you can look it up and read it word for word, its no surprise that we get taken to the cleaners when trying to listen to politicians. Its no wonder we always think that theyre lying or keeping their promises or not.

Obviously we cant even fucking understand whats already written down in clear language how the fuck are we going to understand purposefully obscure language spoken by politicians knowing the difference between what they said and what most people will hear/think?

Edit: Source: https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/minimum-wage/history since 1996 it has been this way in regards to tipping.

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u/Zen142 Jan 15 '22

If you're a waitress/waiter you're minimum wage is $4.35 and sometimes lower, and doesn't include any tips

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u/DONSEANOVANN Jan 15 '22

In all the states I've been in, $2.13 was the pay for servers.

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u/Professional-Ad7857 Jan 15 '22

Tipped minimum wage is $2.83. The server needs to claim at least the $4.42 per hour difference. Also the margins at a restaurant are typically 5%. Possibly 10%. The math from OP is missing a lot of expenses. Insurance, taxes margins are tight, but maybe if you cant afford to pay people right and pay your bills you have failed. If the server is not making enough tips to make it up the employer is obligated to take care of it. That being said as a 20 year bartender in a mid size American city I regularly make 300-500 per night. If we got rid of tipping in the states it would be a pay cut for many servers/bartenders. That being said, everyone in the front of the house knows that we are getting away with something. Cooks deserve more. That shit is hard.

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u/Abbaddonhope Jan 15 '22

Hes assuming the waitress is working 5-6 hours

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u/awwstin_n Jan 15 '22

Federal minimum wage for tipped employees is $2.13/hr. State minimum wage varies. In California, tipped employees usually share the same minimum wage as other non-tipped employees. In Texas, most restaurants offer the federal $2.13/hr.

A night shift is 6 hours, not 8, usually 4pm to 10pm. So $14 * 6 is $84.

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u/[deleted] Jan 15 '22

Yeah reading that math gave me a stroke.

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u/SomeComediansQuote Jan 15 '22

Your misstep was assuming people get a paycheck every day. They dont, they usually get them weekly. $12 per night5 nights per week= $60

The other thing is that full-time is not technically defined as 40 hours per week. Its defined (federally, at least, this how the IRS defines it. im sure theres deviations between states) at least 30 hours per week or 130 hours per month.

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u/Kind_Man_0 Jan 15 '22

I took the experience from the restaurant I worked at. Night staff were on from 5PM-11PM.

6 hours was typical for them as the dinner rush started around 430 or so. At the $2.13 minimum wage for wait staff, a 6 hour shift is about $12 after tax.

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u/RTLIVIN Jan 15 '22

Where do you live that a full 8 hour shift is only 12$? Im genuinely curious

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u/habitat11 Jan 15 '22

America? That's the wages of servers in America. They are allowed to be paid under minimum wage bcz of tips, if they don't make the federal minimum wage with their tips the employer has to pay them the federal minimum wage at least.

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u/[deleted] Jan 15 '22

[deleted]

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u/habitat11 Jan 15 '22

We're clearly talking about the states that don't

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u/CorporateStef Jan 15 '22

That's insane, I worked in a restaurant in the UK, probably a bit "higher class" where we would serve around 130 tables on a really busy night 6-10 o clock with 5 in the kitchen and about 10 out front and that was pretty hard work allowing 2 people to do double that is ridiculous and then having the nerve to not even pay them yourself.

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u/Turbulent_Salary1698 Jan 15 '22

Honestly, low wage workers everywhere work harder than they get paid for.

Waiters/waitresses get paid minimum wage no matter what, with the bonus of a tip that can add up depending where you work.

On the other hand, people who work at low end restaurants without many tips, or fast food workers, or retail employees, all make minimum wage. Obviously they all work hard, and they all deserve more pay imo.

We may never end tipped wage because plenty of waiters/waitresses would rather not.

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u/[deleted] Jan 15 '22

Plenty of other costs to be covered also, so thats not going to the bank. Should charge 15% more or whatever on the price & pay the staff properly.

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u/bulbouspotato Jan 15 '22

Thats insane! I'm 19 living in Aus, I cook at a cafe in a small town making 27.8 an hour (about 19.5 USD)

I didn't know it was so bad over there. Are you guys okay? That sounds impossible to live on.

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u/fadithedog Jan 15 '22

Cost of living differences

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u/bulbouspotato Jan 15 '22

I suppose so. I'm living pretty comfortably/easily though

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u/GodHook Jan 15 '22

our servers make 500 a night on the weekends and 200+ on a weekday. while the cooks making dogshit wages and doing the most work see none of that. servers survive just fine off tips they don't need higher hourly.

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u/Kind_Man_0 Jan 15 '22

My gripe is not with tipping in general, it is that restaurants can get away with the lowest absolute cost for employees.

If your server makes $300 in tips over a 40 hour workweek, you, as the owner, only have to spend $90 on that employee.

I don't like the idea of subsidizing your employees wages to the customers. Not all wait staff makes that $200 a night.

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u/[deleted] Jan 15 '22

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u/mikeg5417 Jan 15 '22

I cooked at a restaurant all through high school and college and was friends with many of the waitresses. I made $12.50 an hour my last year there (this was in 1993) and the waitresses were paid. @ $2.00 an hour plus tips. I was paid way better at the time than most of my peers working at other jobs. I don't think minimum wage was $5.00 in 93. (I took a pay cut at my first job using my accounting degree.)

The waitresses (I think in my time there, there was only one waiter, and one female that worked in the kitchen) I was friends with were generally against being paid a higher steady wage rather than tips.

They often complained about lousy tippers, but I think they felt that they had a better deal with cash tips than whatever they would have been paid in wages.

I know things are a lot different now, particularly with a good portion of customers paying by credit or debit card, which I think ends up on their w2. I also know that at higher end restaurants, waitstaff may make good money on tips.

Not sure what is the best way.

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u/DayRonKar Jan 15 '22

Operating margins of restaurants are slim. Make less than 10 cents per dollar of income. My restaurant makes 225,000 only 23,000 of that will be actual profit.

I am a restaurant manager paid on profit. If we adopted a wage for servers, Id have to raise prices. Flip side, my server may have 800 in sales, made 200$. 8 hour shift. 25 an hour is solid money.

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u/CSC160401 Jan 15 '22

Not to mention the side work they make you do to be able to leave. When I was a waiter I was forced to stay for an hour or 2 after I stopped getting tables, rolling silverware and cleaning for $2.13/hr

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u/Truffluscious Jan 15 '22

In my state waiters make $15 an hour lol

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u/SerenityViolet Jan 15 '22

That's insane.

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u/Whiterabbit-- Jan 15 '22

so if people tipped just 15% the waiter is making $315 a night on tips??? so about $54/hr.

sounds like tips favor the waiter at the expense of the cooks.

I think it would be much better if people don't tip and restaurants are faced to pay a fair wage and increase food cost as appropriate.

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u/dpahs Jan 15 '22

I'm the biggest /r/antiwork person there is, but it's not a profit of $1479.

You have to include operating costs like rent, utilities, maintenance. There's also the price of taking on the risk of business with all the upfront costs, advertising etc.

Maybe someone with more experience can tell me how much net income restaurant owners typically make every month.

Holidays they make more and downtime they make less.

That being said, the owners should pay the wait staff not the customers lmao

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u/excess_inquisitivity Jan 15 '22

Your calculation is missing overhead (rent,utilities,maintaininence, franchise fees, wages for non_waitstaff worker other than the cook).

Tipped employee wages are still exploitative, but the calculation isn't quite as simple as your formula

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u/DoublePrize9 Jan 15 '22

Im all up for paying staff more, but these calculations are way off. A restaurant would make nowhere near that amount of profit

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u/twistedweasel Jan 15 '22

A lot of restaurants, especially small businesses run on very thin margins and have a hard time making significant profits. Its one of the hardest businesses to run unless youre a franchise or chain and part of a big corporation.

Its not just tipping economy thats broken. Its the whole chain from farm suppliers. Bulk goods wholesalers. Commercial landlords. Advertising sales people. Insurance companies and all their other factors that cost business owners money and make it hard for them to break from the status quo. The system forces small business owners down a path.

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u/[deleted] Jan 15 '22

How much is waitress being tipped on this typical night, do you think?

10% (average) of sales would be $210. 5% tips is $105. Still being paid more than the $14/hr cook. Just a thought

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u/mikecantreed Jan 15 '22

My brother is a chef. Most restaurants barely survive. You take out tipping and the struggling restaurants are wiped out and youre left with the chains and well funded restaurant groups. Its not simple.

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u/aqua_tec Jan 15 '22

Food costs at a quarter of total costs? Are you sure???! I believe its much more than that. Never forget prep time for cooks, spoilage, etc.

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u/EifertGreenLazor Jan 15 '22

Maths don't make sense 70 tables at $30 a piece would be $3 a table with dipshits with poor tipping included. $210 a night for 6 hours is more than 30/hr in tips.

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u/zacjkl Jan 15 '22

Where did you work where waitresses only made $1.50 an hour.

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u/[deleted] Jan 15 '22

Thats 100% wrong. I was a waiter in Washington for hears. I was paid minimum wage + tips. My checks were around 800 for full time and I brought in about $150 a night in tips. Made more in tips than actual wages.

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u/[deleted] Jan 15 '22

[deleted]

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u/Kind_Man_0 Jan 15 '22

I can redo the math for you since it's manipulation

Say a Friday evening for a dinner rush of 3 hours, you have 40 tables, averaging 1 hour per table. 8 cooks, and 8 waiters. You are charging and average of $15 per guest and EVERY table is only 2 people having dinner.

You are serving a total amount of 240 plates of food. That is 40 tables, 2 plates per table, over 3 hours with new plates once an hour.

4032=240

At $15 a plate.

24015=3600

We can't account for all the food ordered at every price point so we will just take a 3rd of that in food costs.

3600.66= 2400

Now we have to pay our staff,

Our cooks make $14/hr and our waiters make $3. We will pay them on the higher end of the spectrum since this fake restaurant takes care of it's employees.

8 cooks 14/hr over 3 hrs. 8143= 336 8 waiters 3/hr over 3 hrs. 8x3x3= 72 336+72= 408

You still have a profit at this point of $1992

The manager needs to be paid too.

203= 60

Still have $1932 left.

Of course there are others costs. I have to pay my employees too, and their insurance, and every time they fuck up I have to eat that cost. That said, our services cost $90 up front plus $140 and hour. My lowest paid employee costs me $32/hr and insurance for him is $320ish a month. I only need him to work for 5 hours a month for me to profit off his labor. A waitress only has to work for 1 hour for you to profit off them.

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u/eth-slum-lord Jan 15 '22

If the business cant make money without broken tipping scam system then it should be put out of its misery

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u/SalesLurker Jan 15 '22

This math has no real.value when you say "take out other restaurants expenses" and get rid of a few employees it makes it seem like profits are much, much higher.

Also if industry standard was to pay more prices would raise to account for that so its a lot of optics.

Most servers make more as tipped workers than they would at minimum wage for sure and probably even more than they would at $15 an hour on the balance.

But its similar to sales where its not always consistent and predictable and that causes maybe undue frustration/anxiety.

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u/Personal-Law-1734 Jan 15 '22

As a line cook I made 8 dollars an hour while working 12 hour shifts with no break 2 years ago

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u/[deleted] Jan 15 '22

It kind of mutes the point your trying to make by using anecdotal numbers and deliberately leaving out critical variables to justify your incredibly flawed financial outcome.

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u/rcatf Jan 15 '22

As a previous manager of a restaurant, I ran P&L's and can tell you making a profit in this business is much harder than your math makes it seem. Almost every restaurant is trying to achieve 20% net profit. This number isn't common as most KPI's are difficult to achieve. So that $2100 in gross revenues you speak of usually results in $420 to the owners at best. $210 is probably more common. Adding $72 in wages for the server to be paid a decent wage (which it still isn't) looks impossible.

Your scenario is showing 70% profit. Obviously you're not accounting for every expense, but even if you managed to show 50%, that's investor drooling material.

Think about it. If you had money to invest and were considering the stock market or restaurant ownership for steady growth on your money, the restaurant at 50% is way more appealing. Almost no one would invest in the stock market.

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u/Used_Outlandishness5 Jan 15 '22

Nah it's accounted for because the food definitely doesn't come out to as much as you said anyway.

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u/cdc994 Jan 15 '22

Kind of right. The main reason I see for paying employees less is saving on payroll taxes/benefits. Even if the restaurant supplemented the higher wages (if tipping were removed) by raising menu prices that owner would also have to pay FICA/FUTA/SUTA/Medicare/caid/unemployment etc. on your wages, which would represent a SUBSTANTIAL increase in payroll

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u/bubbaman37 Jan 15 '22

You left out most of the costs of running a business. There is also a very high turnover in the restaurant industry because with what they pay, which according to you is very little, they still cant make a go of it.

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u/savvymcneilan Jan 15 '22

Yes I cant stand when people say Im not tipping because all the waitress does is bring me my food wrong. Clearly they have never worked in the food industry.

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u/H0dl3rr Jan 15 '22

Just curious where you're getting $60 per check for a full time waitress? From what I understand, the federal tipped minimum wage is $2.13. A typical full time paycheck would include at least 80 hours of pay. 80 x $2.13 is $170.4.

Do I have this right or is there another factor I'm not aware of?

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u/Kind_Man_0 Jan 15 '22

80 hours? Most waitresses in the 2 restaurants I worked in got maybe 30 a week Give or take holidays where we staffed heavier.

There isn't many opportunities for consistent full work weeks so the staff doesn't qualify for benefits such as insurance, 401k etc.

According to the Illinois Department of Employment Security, the median work week for wait staff is is 34 hours a week.

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u/Roflmancer Jan 15 '22

And to add to this (I once cooked for 5 years so I was that guy makING 50% of the served food for 18.75 a plate for EVERY TABLES FOOD back in 2011 so imagine the prices now and i got paid 10$/hr), those said mentioned servers and waiters (ya know the ones who are truly essential) have to pay out their bungholios in taxes. The service industry are heroes, no one can convince me thats wrong. They float this country. #eattherich

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u/defaultcats Jan 15 '22

Where are servers making $60 on paychecks? I made $0 on almost every paycheck when I was a server. Granted I only worked 30 hours a week because I was a student

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u/Simple-Ad791 Jan 15 '22

If there wasn't tipping culture lots of people wouldn't be Walters.

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u/Popular_Gain9065 Jan 15 '22

You can't have a restaurant without Cooks. You could totally have a restaurant without servers though. Just have people walk up to the counter and get the meal themselves.

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u/Fallwalking Jan 15 '22

When I worked at Applebees the manager let us clock in at $9 an hour (in 2007) for opening and closing work. I would only do it if I knew it was going to be a long time, so if it was a night where it was only going to be 10 minutes after close before leaving, I wouldnt bother. Opening was different though because youd be there 8-11 AM doing prep work. A couple full timers usually had these 8-4 shifts, but I did get into the consistent cycle for a while and it was nice to have 10-20 hours of normal wages on a pay check. Havent waited tables in 13 years so I cant say what its like now. Glad I walked away from it. I was working 4 jobs just so I didnt have to deal with my feelings, but when life started getting better I quit bartending and waiting tables. I still have mad respect for the service industry and I appreciate everything they do.

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u/Stew-Padasso Jan 16 '22

A man I knew owned a steakhouse, part of a big chain, while I was working on some of his toys I asked what his profit was after ALL costs came out. This would have been 2007ish.

He said after all costs, including paying the owners salarys they cleared 20%. Said on a bad night they cleared 12%

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u/Delicious_Ad9704 Jan 16 '22

What horrible state do you live in?

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u/shitdesk Jan 16 '22

This this is why I tip at least 20% and only go lower if the waitress is actively ignoring and making 0 effort to do their job and doing less than the bare minimum (only happened once where we never actually saw the waitress we were supposed to have and a friend of mine serving there served us and I did tip my friend)

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u/Xax9 Jan 16 '22

Why not pay the workers a Living Wage like in the REST OF THE FUCKING WORLD from the obscene profits made by the owner of a restaurant. It doesnt have to stay like it is forever, you know..