r/news 10d ago Heartwarming 1

Lawyer: Admins were warned 3 times the day boy shot teacher Title Not From Article

https://apnews.com/article/newport-news-school-shooting-a40dfad64388aadf1f90211177412522
52.1k Upvotes

13.5k

u/SamurottX 10d ago

It's one thing to say "well he has a gun so we gotta be careful about how we approach this". It's another thing entirely to ignore it and wait for the school day to end first. Especially when the student had threatened others multiple times. This isn't incompetence, this is negligence.

2.5k

u/fivelinedskank 10d ago

wait for the school day to end first.

Not that they were going to handle it then, either. The plan was just to wait it out so it becomes someone else's problem. It's aggressively, proactively negligent.

874

u/binghamtonswag 10d ago

It's aggressively, proactively negligent.

Legally that can be recklessness.

567

u/mart1373 10d ago

Legally it is recklessness. I mean, a jury has to find in favor of a recklessness suit, but I’m calling it: that was reckless behavior.

211

u/sennbat 9d ago

It should be criminal. They didn't just not do anything, they prevented several people who could have stopped this from taking action.

139

u/TheGreyBull 9d ago edited 8d ago

They took their devaluation de-escalation classes in Uvalde.

EDIT: Didn't mean to put "devaluation," but at this point, I'm just gonna keep it.

25

u/screamtrumpet 9d ago

We tried nothing, and are now out of ideas.

→ More replies
→ More replies
→ More replies
→ More replies
→ More replies

3.9k

u/mahoujosei100 10d ago

The weird thing is, you'd think administration would be highly motivated to find the gun. Besides the obvious safety issue (which should have been enough), bringing a weapon to school is one of the few things you can expel a student with a disability for without going through all the procedures that are usually in place to protect disabled students. It basically would have been a free pass to get rid of this kid. You'd think the crass motivation to offload a problem student would have gotten them to act, even if protecting elementary schoolers/staff from being shot wasn't enough.

2.9k

u/nemocluecrj 10d ago

So, this is how you know this administration didn't know what the fuck they were doing when it come to this kid:

The family also said in its statement that the boy has an “acute disability” and was under a care plan “that included his mother or father attending school with him and accompanying him to class every day.” The week of the shooting was the first when a parent was not in class with him, the family said.

My mom and sister are both SPED teachers, my sister in particular is an adaptive curriculum specialist, and I can tell you just from my casual exposure to their work and in no uncertain terms that "a parent needs to tag along with him" is NOT an acceptable behavioral modification plan for a kid that's this unhinged. Full stop. No teacher or administrator should ever think that such a step is going to work long-term. Seems pretty fucking clear from what we know at this point that they didn't want to do what needed to be done with him, which was force him into some sort of adaptive learning environment properly equipped to handle a kid as awful as this one--i.e., alternative schooling. This sounds like an especially deadly mix of apathy and negligence, and it is truly a goddamn miracle he didn't shoot a classmate.

1.6k

u/DetectiveNickStone 9d ago

Right?! I've got 16 years of experience with mostly "bad kids" with severely traumatic home lives and various disabilities. A few have a legally-mandated 1on1 paraprofessional who is trained to deescalate and teach coping skills.

We might invite a parent to passively observe their child a few times to "see for yourself" but in no way would they be permitted to or asked to follow the child to every class as a behavioral solution. Shit's bonkers.

586

u/WommyBear 9d ago

I would quit if I had a student with that accommodation.

390

u/nemocluecrj 9d ago

My sister said exactly the same thing over the phone just a little while ago. "I would walk away that day from any job where that went down on the IEP."

452

u/WommyBear 9d ago

To be fair, I fear my walkout will be any day now. I love my students, and the feeling is mutual. I love teaching. But the environment is maddening and the laws they are proposing in Indiana are atrocious. The latest one is that administrators will not have to discuss classroom issues with teachers or the union. This includes class size and problematic behaviors. If it passes, I am gone.

175

u/sainttawny 9d ago

In no uncertain terms, we (the taxpayer) do not deserve you. Don't burn yourself to keep your students warm, especially when their parents keep voting to take away all of your other kindling. It's not the kids' fault, but it's not yours either.

→ More replies

112

u/ShotgunMage 9d ago

The politics surrounding education makes me wonder how to approach my son's education. He's barely 7 weeks old, so it's still a while but I'm not sure if the arbitrary restrictions, inefficient administration, high level apathy and educator burnout will get any better by the time he enters school.

126

u/WommyBear 9d ago

Vote and advocate now for who will actually make schools better. Hopefully, they will be by the time your little one gets there.

51

u/CTeam19 9d ago

Also, at least in my case, pull zero punches when it comes to private schools. I am in Iowa where Republicans are fucking over the state and happen to have Learning Disabilities, have ADHD, and needed the Special Education that only public schools are required to have. If I didn't have those I would probably be dead or on drugs or in jail. Private Charter Schools aren't required to help kids like me.

→ More replies
→ More replies
→ More replies
→ More replies
→ More replies
→ More replies

56

u/carybditty 9d ago

I was one of those para professionals for many years. I’ve never heard of that accommodation either. I’m totally curious what the hell is up with this kid and family.

→ More replies

56

u/wkdpaul 9d ago edited 9d ago

To be fair, if they didn't do shit when told 3 different times that the kid had a gun and was threatening others, we shouldn't be surprised if they didn't give any fucks about smaller, yet very important things.

EDIT ; as-in : if they didn't do anything about being told 3 times about a student with a gun, you think they would do anything about drugs? bullying? harassment? domestic abuse?

Anyone in the administration that was implicated in these reports should be faced with criminal charges, no less.

→ More replies

337

u/Mohingan 9d ago

Sounds like an easy way to achieve no improvement and cause the kid to need mommy by his side for the rest of his life

321

u/Apophthegmata 9d ago

Honestly, it sounds like a school without enough funding and not enough staffing trying to meet the needs of a student's IEP.

I am sure that parent isn't being paid the salary of a sped paraprofessional to follow their child around all day.

Parent maybe even volunteered during their ARD and the school just went with it.

I also, have never in my career ever heard of an IEP including anyone who is either not staff or a contracted specialist (like speech pathologist or counselor).

The IEP is a legally binding document. There is no enforcement mechanism to require a volunteer to uphold their part of an IEP.

111

u/the_one_jt 9d ago

a school without enough funding

Funny how the lawsuit will pay out enormous amounts of money from a place without enough funding. The superintendent got his payout secured and he didn't even need to sue.

→ More replies

23

u/gloriousporpoise616 9d ago

Parents can be trained and become the "Contracted Specialist" in some states. Idk how it is in the state this took place in but it's not a universal law.

→ More replies
→ More replies

135

u/sadiemac2727 9d ago

5 years experience for me, and it makes me think the parents didn’t believe anything the school was possibly telling them. Maybe that they wanted them to experience his behavior? But this also opens the door for them to say the school/teacher is doing something wrong (I don’t think teacher did anything wrong, but clearly the district did).

→ More replies
→ More replies

481

u/MacNapp 9d ago

If I saw "parent attend school with student" in a BIP or IEP, I'd lose my damn mind.

355

u/nemocluecrj 9d ago

Yeah, my sister called a few minutes ago, and I told her about it. She gasped and said nobody in their right mind should've ever agreed to that. She said she'd quit over a plan like that. It's that bad.

192

u/postal-history 9d ago

It's definitely not legal and many people are doubting that such an IEP was actually put to writing.

93

u/MacNapp 9d ago

Makes me wonder if this student had an IEP, 504, or Intervention plan...

188

u/WommyBear 9d ago

The parents SAID it was an IEP. But then again, they also said the gun was secured and locked and that their child had an "acute" problem", so I would not believe a word out of their mouth. My guess would be a behavior plan.

37

u/MortalTwit 9d ago

The parents are throwing as much shit as possible at the fan to see what stick that they can use to save their own damned hides. Deny all culpability. Point all the fingers. Make up all the bullshit.

→ More replies
→ More replies
→ More replies
→ More replies

41

u/SkippyBluestockings 9d ago

But even when there's a system in place it isn't always going to work either. I worked in North Carolina 30 years ago in a classroom of behaviorally and emotionally disturbed kids, mostly boys, first through sixth grade in one classroom. Years ago prior there had been a court case about a child named Willie M who was excessively violent but his parents successfully petitioned the court to allow him to remain in public school as long as he had a dedicated assistant. Subsequent students who were just as violent but were permitted to stay in the school system, even in special ed classrooms for behavior problems and emotional disturbances, were supposed to have this assistant.

It was rare to have a student that violent and labeled "a Willie M kid." My school not only had two of them but they were both in my classroom and neither one of them had an assistant because "there just [wasn't] any money for funding."

I spent that entire school year on the floor WWE wrestling style, restraining kids who were completely out of control and violent. I had to file assault charges against a 7 year old who tried to kill me.

The one good thing I can say is that in all my years--and that's 25 of working with emotionally disturbed children--my Administration has always been fabulous. And I'm a special ed teacher! You would think that some of them would just dismiss my concerns because I was the expert and I had the self-contained classroom to deal with these kids so Ishouldn'tneed admin. I cannot imagine leaving a gen ed teacher with a student like that! I was pretty much on my own in that classroom in North Carolina because my teaching assistant was a 65 year old woman who was pretty useless as far as restraining kids and, in fact, she would say horrible things to them about how stupid they were and that would set them off. And the time I had to file those charges? That was in accordance with North Carolina law that said if a student did so much just throw a piece of chalk at a teacher, they were getting assault charges. They weren't going to juvie. But the parents were getting court ordered parenting and the child had to go to anger management which was step in the right direction.

→ More replies

404

u/luminous_beings 9d ago

But why the hell does a child with an acute disability so severe that he has to be supervised have ANY access to a gun ? For real, when I hear this - that the person was known to be mentally ill or otherwise incapable and their fucking parents collect and teach their kid to use guns and then are surprised when the mentally ill person uses the gun to murder people.

If you have a vulnerable person in your home you should not be allowed to own a weapon. As far as I’m concerned, whatever charges this kid should be facing should also be levelled against the person who let him have access to a fucking firearm.

262

u/Gangreless 9d ago

Shit people that became shit parents is the answer to your question

57

u/yellow_trash 9d ago

The mother said her gun is locked up and she's not sure how he got it. Just by that you can tell she's a shit parent and lying through her teeth.

→ More replies
→ More replies

31

u/MortalTwit 9d ago

THis is EXACTLY why the parents are going so ape shit making stuff up. No way in hell is that IEP real. It’s illegal as hell and completely unenforceable. If it IS real, then THEY are hte responsible parties because they were not on hand to monitor. It was their gun. THeir training. Their kid.

And in the last couple years, prosecutors have started going after parents for shit like this, and winning.

SO suddenly, it llooks like they will be up for every charge that the kid should get, and NOW they put in all sorts of energy claiming to have done everything right. IF they put half the energy into doing the right things that they are into lying about it, this never happens.

In part because there never would have been a gun to have access to in the first place.

→ More replies
→ More replies

148

u/lsp2005 9d ago

This is exactly it. I was gobsmacked that the district thought having the parents attend school with the child was part of the IEP and appropriate!?! The kid should have been at a residential school for troubled children. I know this is Monday morning quarterbacking, but how did it get to this?

→ More replies
→ More replies
→ More replies

1.1k

u/AreWeCowabunga 10d ago

Especially when the student had threatened others multiple times

When I first heard this story I assumed he had a gun but shot the teacher by mistake. Sounds like he meant to do it. Fucking crazy.

And a trigger lock and "being up high" are not fucking substitutes for a gun safe.

968

u/NatalieEatsPoop 10d ago

When I first heard this story I assumed he had a gun but shot the teacher by mistake. Sounds like he meant to do it

He meant to do it 100%. He gave the teacher a note once stating he wanted to set her on fire and watch her die. He also had to have a parent accompany him to school for a good while. The day he shot his teacher was his first day in school without a parent present.

305

u/Louloubelle0312 10d ago

This is even worse than the Michigan kid whose parents wouldn't come get him after he threatened, then shot up the school.

320

u/JediKnightThomas 10d ago

The sad thing is that the parents in Michigan went to the school to have a meeting with a counselor the day of the shooting and refused to take him out of school for the day. As soon as they left was when the shooting started.

225

u/msprang 9d ago

And then they tried to run away to avoid getting caught.

→ More replies

53

u/USS_Hornet 9d ago

The parents knew he had the gun in his backpack and wouldn’t authorize a search.

53

u/Trick-Many7744 9d ago

They didn’t want to get in trouble. Literally saving themselves from a misdemeanor charge and now their kid is a murderer. I cannot get over how they tried to run. Some narcissistic behavior there.

→ More replies
→ More replies
→ More replies
→ More replies

553

u/meta_irl 10d ago

Yeah, it sounds like the kid is a psychopath. I read elsewhere that one of the parents had been in the classroom every day except for that week. So it's possible the kid knew where the gun was, carefully planned out how to access it, then waited until his parents weren't there to monitor him in order to get it so he could kill his teacher. Completely fucked up and I honestly don't even know how we as a society should deal with someone like this.

Obviously the parents should be charged for even having a gun in the house in that instance. Putting it up on a shelf isn't enough when you have a child that prone to violence. But I've read stories of parents who had to raise psychopaths/sociopaths and it sounds like an unimaginable nightmare. Like, from an early age the kids just start screaming their heads off, without end, if they don't get their way.

145

u/SpaceDesignWarehouse 10d ago

I am not/was not a psychopath, but yeah no shelf was safe in my childhood. I explored every inch of my house growing up, from the attic to the crawl space and every cubby in or out of reach. Kids are clever monkeys, and kids with a sociopathic wire crossed should not live in a house with a gun; thats bonkers.

→ More replies
→ More replies
→ More replies

263

u/Danae-rain 10d ago

He told another teacher he wanted to set this teacher on fire and watch her die. How in the world does a child even get such an idea?

318

u/ElectricalMud5830 10d ago edited 10d ago

I’ve worked with youth, very young kids even, who have expressed homicidal impulses towards others. I’m not sure anyone tells them these things or that they get it from anywhere in particular.

Many kids just have a shit load of anger and have no ability to regulate or consider consequences. For some it comes out in statements like “I want to kill my mom/dad/sister/teacher/self”.

It’s really varied from child to child how to handle things like that. This kid had clearly presented a pattern and enough of a risk that more steps should have been taken to monitor, assess, and (obviously) remove him from the classroom and school setting.

I’m curious if anyone ever asked about guns in the home before this and if they did, if the parents were honest. I ask every child and family about guns. I ask parents where and how they are kept.

FAR too many just keep them “around”, in a closet, loaded, in a safe with the key in the nightstand. One man thought the magazine being out, but in the same drawer was adequate.

Many don’t think anything like this could happen to them, even after I share their kids’ violent statements and feelings that came out in our session. Few have taken my attempts to educate and provide resources on safe storage seriously.

One day this could be me or my coworkers. Kids come to us when they are in the heat of a crisis, which is exactly THE time where they are likely to make a bad choice. That thought is never far from my mind when I go to work.

ETA: I keep cable locks to give out for free to parents if they don’t have one. I have only had three parents accept it. The best storage is a safe, preferably a combination lock. But any lock is better than nothing.

67

u/SkippyBluestockings 9d ago

I had a fifth grader once who used to scream at me about all the things I did to him when he was six. I never met the kid before fifth grade! But what I eventually figured out was he was very very angry at his mother and he couldn't take it out on her so he would take it out on me. She never got him counseling apparently (or at least not good enough counseling) when he had to have a limb amputated because of a noncancerous and he was very angry about that. When he was in the fourth grade he attacked his fourth grade teacher and they decided at that point he needed to go into the behavior program. The mother said she was "totally blindsided." Really? You thought that beating up the fourth grade teacher was normal kid behavior at 9 years old??

21

u/ElectricalMud5830 9d ago

So many phone calls with “totally blindsided” parents…. How are you not paying attention to your child?!

→ More replies
→ More replies
→ More replies
→ More replies
→ More replies

231

u/WestCoastBestCoast01 10d ago

Right!! Did no one think to, IDK, TAKE IT FROM HIM?? Fucking negligent idiots.

249

u/SamurottX 10d ago

Even worse, the administrators went on their lunch break knowing he had a gun and probably still ended up making casual small talk as if they didn't have an actual job to do. Like if even one of them got off their butts and did something they'd be a hero and in line for a promotion but that's too much work for them.

335

u/throwaway_thyroid 10d ago

As someone who went to school in the immediate post-Columbine era, where kids were being seized for things like having a plastic knife to spread peanut butter with at lunch (because obviously the problem was everything except guns), this story is blowing my mind. I mean, there was a Supreme Court case where a girl was strip-searched because she was accused of having ibuprofen. And yet when there's an actual gun...nothing?

76

u/sillily 9d ago

It’s a depressingly common pattern, actually, and makes sense if you think about it this way: lots of people in positions of power are shitty people who only care about themselves. When they’re pressured to make something happen, they naturally look for the easiest way to make the pressure go away, while inconveniencing themselves as little as possible.

It’s easy to push around cooperative people who don’t want to do anything wrong, so you come down hard on them. Give them hell for any minor thing, announce that you’ve done your job and fuck off. But if someone is an actual problem, that person is going to be a pain to deal with. So you ignore them as much as possible, maybe go a bit harder on everyone else as a distraction. Then when the problem boils over, you can point to all the work you did giving innocent people shit, and say “but I was trying so hard, who can blame me”.

→ More replies
→ More replies
→ More replies
→ More replies

77

u/LoverlyRails 10d ago

If they ignore it and the kid goes home and shoots someone, it's entirely the parents' problem.

They were hoping to push it off long enough that it would just go away.

→ More replies

18.5k

u/jschubart 10d ago Coin Gift

The teacher is unsurprisingly suing the district.

8.6k

u/thirtytwoutside 10d ago

In a just world, the compensation would come out of the paychecks of every single one of the administrators who failed to act, instead of the taxpayer.

Because it will be the kids and the rest of the teachers who end up indirectly footing the bill, and that sucks.

3.5k

u/BeefyHemorroides 9d ago

Don’t forget the “acutely disabled” child’s (who apparently needed a parent present at school but surprise surprise was left alone) obnoxious parents with their “secured” firearm.

1.7k

u/Thats_what_im_saiyan 9d ago

Yeah secured does not mean on a shelf thats 6 foot tall with a trigger lock. According to the article this was the first week his parents didn't accompany the kid to school. Maybe its just me but you would think there would be extra eyes on that kid given the circumstances. And you would want to try to intervene earlier if something was possibly going wrong.

I know I shouldn't say anything without knowing the nature of the disability. But I would either take extra care to ensure my disabled child could access a firearm. Or just not have one in the house. Hell even a non disabled child there should be a safe or something. Not just chillin on a shelf.

106

u/tkp14 9d ago

I’m 75 years old so when I was a little kid none of this gun safety (or let’s be frank, much of any kind of safety beyond “don’t play in traffic”) information was available or widely known. When I was around 7 or 8 I became increasingly curious and loved to explore around my house. As an only child it was on me to entertain myself when my neighborhood friends were not around. I loved exploring my mom’s closet — she had clothes, hats, and shoes that were 1940s vintage and I loved that stuff. One day I must have decided to expand my area of exploration and I dragged a choir to my dad’s closet and started rooting around on the top shelf. I found a gun. I held it for a few minutes, looking closely at it. My only exposure to guns at that point were television shows like Gunsmoke and Dragnet. I knew enough to be slightly scared of it. I carefully and quietly put it back. Any adult who thinks that storing a gun on the top shelf of an easily accessible closet is a fool. And I disabused my parents of their idea it was safely stored away from me when I asked them about it. I received a stern lecture accompanied by appreciation for telling them the truth. But I definitely looked again a couple of weeks later and it was gone. I never saw it again.

→ More replies

1.4k

u/heinous_asterisk 9d ago

The bare fact that the kid managed to get (and shoot!) the gun is proof that it was not actually secure, is it not?

Whatever measures they thought were adequate, obviously weren't.

Separately from that I'm just kinda curious what the kid's disability is.

676

u/PainTrain412 9d ago

Correct. A 6 year old shouldn’t know how to unlock, load and then fire a weapon. Even the NRA recommends starting no earlier than 8 because of the dangers of lead exposure and what that can do to a child’s development (among several other factors). So that tells me that these folks either showed their kid WAYYY too early or it was already unlocked and loaded and ready to go and all the kid needed to do was point and shoot.

Either way, they’re grossly negligent.

422

u/GuiltyEidolon 9d ago

When you're not even following the crazy ass NRA guidelines, you know something is fucked.

232

u/FatassTitePants 9d ago

Which is a shame. Until the NRA decided to be a politically influential money laundering scheme that scares paranoid rubes into spending every spare nickle on preparing to battle the government, they actually were a decent organization focused on safety and responsibility.

→ More replies
→ More replies
→ More replies
→ More replies

1.2k

u/tedivm 9d ago edited 9d ago Gold

My dad restores old guns and collects others (he also goes to the range fairly regularly). As a child if I wanted to get to the guns I would have to-

  1. Break into the room in the basement he built for storage, which was always locked.
  2. Somehow break into the safe, which required two keys to get into. My dad kept one of the keys on his personal key chain which was with him all the time. No joke, he would put that key chain on his night stand while sleeping.
  3. Break into the other safe that held the ammunition.

"Put on a shelf in the closet" is shockingly irresponsible.

662

u/OperationJericho 9d ago

I don't know how your dad was in other aspects of your life, but those are actions of a person who is actually committed to the safety of their kids, family, and overally community.

1.1k

u/tedivm 9d ago

Oh my dad is a complete piece of shit, to the point where I ended up suing him for custody of my sister. Which if anything makes the point even stronger- even a complete piece of shit knows that kids shouldn't be able to access guns.

620

u/Incredulous_Toad 9d ago

Well that certainly took an unexpected turn. But it strengthens your point.

52

u/TangledPangolin 9d ago

Maybe he was such a shit dad that he had to take precautions in case his family wanted to shoot him

→ More replies
→ More replies
→ More replies
→ More replies
→ More replies

287

u/al3cks 9d ago

I’d go as far to argue that if a child has such behavioral issues that they’re required to have a parent present at school…maybe they should be enrolled in a school that’s more specialized to deal with that.

I went to a public school with some students with behavioral issues but have never heard of a situation where any student’s parents are required to be at school with them.

162

u/Issendai 9d ago

Agreed. The law requires kids to be mainstreamed as much as possible, but when a kid can’t get through the day without the constant presence of a parent, it’s hard to say they’re ready to be mainstreamed.

→ More replies
→ More replies

240

u/Dolmenoeffect 9d ago

Taking me back to the memory of my dad's gun safe being propped open for convenience and easy access. I avoid visiting him now and I watch my kid like a hawk when I do.

241

u/Sorry-Letter6859 9d ago

When my dad passed in his 70s, i found a half dozen guns around the house and unsecured. People get complacent and stupid. They were all loaded.

→ More replies
→ More replies

48

u/caboosetp 9d ago

But I would either take extra care to ensure my disabled child could access a firearm

I do not think you phrased this the way you intended.

→ More replies
→ More replies
→ More replies
→ More replies

1.3k

u/Poop_Noodl3 10d ago

Each one of these articles will be listed under “exhibit going to bankrupt your district”

She’ll never have to work again

1.8k

u/punkinbeavisadam 10d ago

I mean she got shot by her first grade student. I would imagine that severely messed up her outlook on teaching

1.8k

u/rajrdajr 10d ago edited 9d ago

she got shot by her first grade student

After the administration was warned about the boy at 11:15am and then they were warned 3 more times before Zwerner was shot at 2:00pm. The district must fire the entire administration immediately.

What a terrible school district to let those administrators near children. Bringing a gun anywhere near school grounds around here is a felony and it must be made that way everywhere to stop school shootings. School grounds are not a well regulated militia.

Edit: not a well regulated... Whoops!

2.0k

u/SingForMeBitches 10d ago Silver Gold Take My Energy Eureka!

I've said it before, and I'll say it again - there's tons of talk about teacher and education reform in America, but pretty much no one talks about administration reform, where I believe the heart of education problems lie. Administrators are responsible for setting school policies and controlling much of what teachers do in the classroom. Admin are the ones who give troubled or dangerous kids a bag of chips and dump them back in class five minutes later with no support. Admin are the ones who maintain "building relationships" will fix every problem kids have at school. Admin are the ones who are too afraid of parents and low graduation rates to expel kids or send them to alternate programs. Admin are the ones who make 25+ kids in a class suffer because of one child causing consistent, sometimes traumatic, disruptions.

Admin. Reform. Now.

Source: myself, a newly former teacher who left mostly due to administrative faults.

240

u/FSD-Bishop 10d ago

One of my friends had a student in their class that would scream and throw thing and flip their desk and she couldn’t do a thing to fix the situation.

308

u/AtuinTurtle 10d ago

“Clear the classroom” I’m a band director, so where do you want me to take 50 kids while the one is creating god knows how much property damage which includes students’ personal instruments?

245

u/Tomoki 10d ago

Solution: your job has been removed due to arts budget cuts. Now you don't have to move the kids anywhere!

/s except that some school districts/admins would probably do this 🥴

126

u/Artanthos 10d ago

Have done this.

Have been doing this for years.

Music and arts were not included in No Child Left Behind .

→ More replies
→ More replies
→ More replies
→ More replies

154

u/davdev 10d ago

I taught HS for 3 years. Never again. School Admins have absolutely no clue what they are doing, especially the board members who are only there because they ran unopposed in an election and have zero qualifications otherwise.

→ More replies

631

u/cyncity7 10d ago

Administration is where all the money goes, too, instead of to the teachers.

438

u/SingForMeBitches 10d ago

At least in my former district, administration wastes a metric fuckton of money on technology they don't understand and unvetted programs that usually are cycled through in one or two years. I never bought in to any of it because I knew we would have a new trend next year, so why bother? Their bought and paid for reading program is now widely panned, and they have spent so much on books and conferences by researchers or feel-good motivational speakers that they move on from the following year. Not to mention the hours upon hours wasted "training" us in these methods, when we really just need time and the trust that we, as teachers, know how to do our jobs. Admin micromanages teachers to an insane degree nowadays. Oh my god, I need to stop ranting, but there are so many problems.

109

u/Gromky 9d ago

I got up to student teaching before bailing on the idea of being a teacher about a decade ago.

In my classes we repeatedly had discussions about some study that said "teaching method X/technology Y is a huge improvement!" I started to realize that every study found a huge improvement, even if it was essentially an old idea in new packaging. Or it was the exact opposite of what some other study found was the best thing ever.

After a while, and looking at the study methods, I became convinced that most of the effect was just comparing a couple teachers who are now invested and excited about their "new" method to whatever control they came up with. They weren't testing teaching methods, they were testing effort and engagement of the teachers in the study.

13

u/butiamsotired 9d ago

Study design in education is universally terrible.

→ More replies

170

u/Anomander 9d ago

Districts often cause administrative bloat once they start trying to finesse getting more value out of lower direct spending on teachers.

They'll spend a hundred on administration to save a dollar in the classroom.

20

u/Bird-The-Word 9d ago

Recent building spent a few grand on a new conference table but balked at having to grab $12 cables for new projectors. They nickel and dime shit like that but then go and replace all the desks and furniture in the district office for 10s, maybe 100s of thousands, but won't get speakers for classroom computers.

→ More replies
→ More replies
→ More replies
→ More replies

31

u/4jet2116 10d ago

I’m right there with you as a former SLP. Far too often districts/admin cave to parents and ignore the professionals’ opinions for what the parents “want.” It eventually got to be too much, and I when I left for a new district to realize the same issues are everywhere.

184

u/SquashInternal3854 10d ago edited 10d ago

Absolutely!

I taught high school English and actually enjoy the students and am good at it (not that it's always easy, but I understand how to talk to teenagers and how to make learning interesting).

What broke me was the utter lack of admin support. It was ALWAYS the teachers fault; teachers doing a whole song and dance in student meetings, while the kid does nothing productive; uninvolved parents; tedious paperwork to satisfy the bureaucrats; observations and consultants. Then: teachers, who due to incompetence do poorly in the classroom, but magically some new admin-type position is created for them.

When I was a new SPED teacher the vice principal doing my observation plainly told me: "sped teachers never get a 5/5 rating and that's just how it is." You better believe I stopped trying and reiterated what he said in my "reflection".

There's so many more instances that, added up, over time, deflate you. Then you break down and quit/retire/take leave.

All at the expense of our students.

Trim the fat: eliminate most Admin positions.

Edit: my first year at a new school I taught 11th grade. One boy: his entire high school career was depressed and quiet, did NO work whatsoever, and during class drew pictures of guns, bullets, swastikas and the words 'I want to die'. I was gobsmacked. How did he not register on anyone's radar before this?! I definitely made a (appropriate and professional) stink about it and he was removed and given mental healthcare resources. So sadly, I can see how the staff at this 6yo boys school in VA just let it all slide.

61

u/coldbench 9d ago

It’s crazy to hear teachers all over the country experiencing the exact same things. I was a new sped teacher and I’ve already left the profession. I got zero support from both the principal and my special Ed boss.

They would ignore emails pleading for help, but never failed to remind me of my bullshit professional development goals that needed to be updated. I basically said the goals were useless and promptly asked the district if I could resign (more to it but I’m not gonna type that all out). I couldn’t imagine being that miserable all of the time. I’m much happier in my new job, it’s nice to not work under such a monolithic bureaucracy. I’m lucky I could get out, I feel bad for those who have much more vested.

→ More replies
→ More replies

88

u/steppen79 10d ago

Thank you for posting this. My wife is a teacher and I came here to post something to this effect. There are many problems with the American education system but one of the biggest IMO are school administrations. They NEVER have the teachers' backs or are willing to support them. The things teachers have to deal with on a daily basis is mind numbing.

→ More replies
→ More replies

418

u/Landsy314 10d ago

And even more fucked up, they were warned because he had threatened to shoot other kids and they told the teachers. What the actual fuck is wrong in this fucking country

105

u/primal7104 9d ago edited 9d ago

What we know so far is that the student is some kind of extreme behavior problem and requires 100% attendance by a parent to even be in the classroom. This is the first day that a parent was not present.

Does that not give admin a clue that they have to take the threats and warnings seriously? How much more of a threat can there be? There were so many red flags here.

89

u/Landsy314 9d ago

You know, and now that you say that, the one fucking day a parent doesn't show up he has a gun and shoots someone? The parents need to be in jail for this one, this whole thing is fucking insanity

→ More replies
→ More replies
→ More replies
→ More replies

62

u/RockerElvis 10d ago

It will be paid by the school’s insurance. Which is actually a good thing since the other students shouldn’t have to suffer for the administration’s mistakes.

Speaking of, the administration should be fired immediately.

→ More replies

100

u/Hojalu 10d ago

An article on MSNBC says she still has a bullet lodged dangerously in her body. She may not be able to work again.

→ More replies
→ More replies
→ More replies

3.9k

u/Sloth_Monk 10d ago

Here’s the part about the search and threats. Sounds like administration had every opportunity to prevent this but did literally nothing, the search they keep touting happened wasn’t even done by them:

She said that around 12:30 p.m., one teacher told administrators that she had taken it upon herself to search the boy’s bookbag but warned that she thought he had the gun in his pocket. Toscano said that after 1 p.m., another boy told his teacher that the student had shown him the gun and threatened to shoot him, and that the teacher reported that to administrators. Another employee later asked for permission to search the boy after hearing about the gun but “was told to wait the situation out because the school day was almost over,” Toscano said.

2.4k

u/Darehead 10d ago edited 10d ago

"wait the situation out"

They show absolutely no awareness of or desire to understand what the actual problem is in this situation. Letting the kid go home with the gun (just to wipe their hands clean of liability) does nothing to prevent that kid from coming back the next day with the same gun.

They aren't even attempting to deal with the problem.

373

u/davdev 9d ago

Wait the kid out til he is on the bus. That way he can shoot the driver and kill 30 kids in a fiery wreck. Brilliant planning

→ More replies

105

u/WSDGuy 9d ago

Imagine if the kid went home and shot some parents. We might only ever have heard that "he got the gun from his parents' closet, unlocked it, and killed them" and nothing about the actions of the school.

32

u/Savingskitty 9d ago

This is a good point.

→ More replies

465

u/SidewaysFancyPrance 10d ago

They absolutely needed to contact the police immediately. Especially after the kid threatened to shoot a teacher? This is beyond negligent or reckless behavior. This was "I hope he kills someone off of school property tonight so it's not our responsibility" problem solving.

201

u/hemingways-lemonade 9d ago

I don't know how that teacher didn't dial 911 themselves after being told to ignore the gun by administrators.

56

u/TheAkashicTraveller 9d ago

To me unacompanied young child with a gun means call the police immediatly and tell your boss later.

→ More replies
→ More replies
→ More replies

285

u/Eelwithzeal 10d ago

What if something happened on the bus?! He could have shot kids or the bus driver and gotten them in an accident

84

u/Larusso92 9d ago

I imagine the admins still wouldn't care.

→ More replies

358

u/DrMrtni 10d ago

Wait it out - "not my job, not my prob. Let someone else deal with it"

→ More replies
→ More replies

385

u/DifficultMinute 9d ago

another boy told his teacher that the student had shown him the gun and threatened to shoot him

The fact that the student didn't spend the rest of the day being investigated, having his parents called, and talking to the police, is asinine.

How does the school not go into soft lockdown at that moment, and ensure that this threat isn't credible (which, unfortunately, in this case it was).

119

u/Gruesome 9d ago

My kid got suspended at age eight for bringing in a pencil eraser shaped like a gun. A pencil eraser that was an inch long. The school had a "no tolerance" policy and were prepared to EXPEL for the remainder of the school year. Talk about a pendulum!

42

u/WommyBear 9d ago

How long ago was that? My guess is about 10-15 years? Because you are so right, the pendulum has swung the opposite way! Both of those swings are assinine.

18

u/sennbat 9d ago

Which is honestly the exact same problem - absolute, conscious refusal to do their actual jobs by the admin.

A parent who beats their kids or neglects them is still abusive, and abusive parents will often do the first to kids who can't fight back and the second to kids who can...

→ More replies
→ More replies

350

u/PorygonTriAttack 10d ago

Oh jesus. What kind of a MESSED UP 6 year old boy brings a gun and threatens to shoot someone with it?

Parents are fucked in the head here. That kid needs to be taken away for the good of society AND for the kid.

→ More replies
→ More replies

4.5k

u/jayfeather31 10d ago

Heads need to roll here. I don't think you can even call it a serious error at this point, as it's worse than that.

1.8k

u/sfblue11 10d ago

The article mentions that the Board of Ed was meeting to discuss a separation and severance package for the district superintendent - so once again the person at the top who should be held responsible will get a nice payday to go quietly away.

686

u/wistoon33 9d ago

district superintendent

I'm not sure what they're role in this was anyways. It's not like a superintendent is at the elementary school and if these principals wouldn't even search the kid for a gun, I cannot imagine they're calling the superintendent about the issue. My guess is the superintendent didn't have a clue anything happened until the teacher was shot. I get the idea that the buck stops at the superintendent but these principals need to go way before the sup.

303

u/WVSmitty 9d ago

iirc - that school / district had a history of complaints concerning security that were never addressed

228

u/NoahtheRed 9d ago

I worked for that district for 4 years (Yes, Kevin is a product of it).....not a single scandalous part of this case is remotely surprising to me or any of my friends who formerly/currently work for NNPS. It's had leadership issues for decades.

84

u/NoBetterOptions_real 9d ago

What!? You're the Kevin story person?? It's crazy after all this time I still remember it so well

→ More replies

27

u/101189 9d ago

Gun problems in American schools for .. I dunno .. 30 years .. and this isn’t surprising? Even the most idiot person working in a school knows to take gun threats seriously, lmao. These people need prison time just like the Uvalde pussies (yeah I know the situation is different, they’re all still pussies - and that’s a bit of an insult to pussies)

27

u/NoahtheRed 9d ago

and this isn’t surprising?

The way NNPS has historically handled things makes this result unsurprising. If a sportsbook were interested in such a morally abhorrent wager, I'd have bet the farm that a significant event like this was inevitable there.

Even the most idiot person working in a school knows to take gun threats seriously

The district is notorious for underreporting. They'll avoid any risk of exposing lax security and safety if they get away with it. They aren't interested in safety, but just the appearance of it.

14

u/WickedYetiOfTheWest 9d ago

The Hampton Roads school systems in general (barring one or two districts) are in terrible shape imo. Especially on the peninsula.

→ More replies
→ More replies
→ More replies
→ More replies
→ More replies

544

u/Use_this_1 10d ago

This was a systemic failure, like Uvalde without the body count. Throw out the whole system and start over.

→ More replies
→ More replies

2.0k

u/Salty_Lego 10d ago

Just go ahead and fire everyone involved.

What an absolute joke.

172

u/Lendyman 9d ago

Not everyone. The teacher who took it upon themselves to search the kid's locker deserves a pat on the back for not waiting for permission and being proactive.

The administration definately needs to be canned immediately though. The decision to wait til the end of the day boggles the mind.

→ More replies

480

u/hibearmate 10d ago

Echoing Hudson in Aliens

They should put the 6 year old in charge

they were the only one with an effing plan and the ability to execute

→ More replies

195

u/Tarable 10d ago

When I was a senior in HS, another student threatened to kill me, in writing, for not dating his friend and the school told me he had a right to a public education and wanted us to sit down and talk it out. I didn’t. I ended up home schooled the rest of the year.

84

u/L88d86c 9d ago

First, I'm sorry.

My first year teaching high school (I was barely 22), a student told me he'd kill me last and meant it as a compliment. I reported it to admin, and they didn't even speak to him about it. I called his father, and he told me to call his mother instead because he had a restraining order against his own kid after the teen broke his jaw. Nothing happened, and the student remained in school all 5 years I taught there. This was in the county across the river from where this shooting took place, and my high school was the school people sent their kids to live with grandma to attend to get them out of Newport News Public Schools.

29

u/Tarable 9d ago

It’s hard not to get hopeless about shit. I’m so sorry. That’s terrifying.

23

u/L88d86c 9d ago

It was a rough 5 years. I moved and just never went back to teaching. Odd thing is, I'd likely go say hi to the guy if I went home and saw him again (and he looked stable). Administration not believing me and always looking for a way to blame teachers is why I haven't gone back.

I'm sorry you had to switch to homeschooling, but I'm glad you could finish your year with less fear.

→ More replies
→ More replies
→ More replies

114

u/[deleted] 9d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

→ More replies
→ More replies

159

u/Repogirl27 10d ago

The administration made it sound like they searched the kids bag. Now it sounds like a teacher searched it due to the administrations lack of action. That’s insane.

→ More replies

1.0k

u/Seraphynas 10d ago

after 1 p.m., another boy told his teacher that the student had shown him the gun and threatened to shoot him, and that the teacher reported that to administrators.

They willfully ignored a report that another student/child had physically seen this kid in possession of a gun and had been threatened with said gun!!

the 25-year-old teacher at Richneck Elementary School plans to sue the school district over the Jan. 6 shooting,

Good! I hope these administrators are specifically named in the lawsuit and I hope they have to pay damages so high that they have resort to selling plasma in order to eat.

556

u/Miguel-odon 10d ago

Imagine being the kid who reported it to teachers as he should have, only for them to ignore the problem.

440

u/HappyAmbition706 10d ago

Reported as he should have, and after being threatened to be shot if he did. That is a brave and responsible kid!

266

u/treemily 10d ago

Sadly, as a kid, he probably assumed that telling an adult was the right/safe thing to do because they would know how to handle such a threat. 🫤

→ More replies
→ More replies
→ More replies
→ More replies

469

u/MontEcola 9d ago

Let me get this straight.

-The student has special needs, and a parent needs to sit with him in class.

-Other teachers alerted school administration that the boy might have a gun.

-Mom thought he might have a gun, but did not know where it was. It was not found in a backpack search.

-Did they search his desk or other areas?

-They still allowed this kid to be in the class without someone sitting with him.

-The teacher got shot.

I want to count up who should be sued. I ran out of fingers.

260

u/Great_cReddit 9d ago

Shit if my child was in that class when this happened I'm suing too for emotional trauma. Those poor kids had to witness something that could have EASILY been avoided if the admin did their job.

63

u/mhwnc 9d ago

Or if the parents did theirs. I would be naming the parents right next to the school in that lawsuit.

26

u/ComfyInDots 9d ago

Right??! As if any parent worth their salt would sit beside their child, who they believed had a gun, and learn ABCs. Mind boggling.

→ More replies

49

u/sennbat 9d ago

You're missing a bit:

  • The backpack search was done without administration consent.

  • A student reported that during the time the backpack was searched, the kid hadn't the gun on them and was threatening to use it to shoot said student.

  • The administration actively stepped in and prevented a staff member from searching the student's person who attempted to do so.

→ More replies
→ More replies

223

u/grandmawaffles 9d ago

So to summarize:

-parents bought/kept a gun in a house knowing they had a child with issues -had the gun in an area without a locked door that the child knew about -had the trigger lock key available to the child -had a ladder available to and child -the child used the ladder and trigger lock key to to retrieve the gun -the parents who had a requirement to attend school daily with their child magically were not there on the day of the shooting -administrators who knew the kid had issues and was not being supervised by his parent did not listen to any other adult or other children who made reports

The kid sucks, the parents suck, the administrators suck, the school board and superintendent suck. I hope the teacher takes every single one of them for everything.

106

u/edcculus 9d ago

That teacher should be compensated so they never have to work a day in their lives again if they so choose. The many layers of negligence here are unacceptable.

36

u/grandmawaffles 9d ago

💯 to cover no longer working at the wage of an administrator, lifetime benefits, medical care, mental health care, pain and suffering, and moving to a new area away from people that may seek retribution.

→ More replies
→ More replies
→ More replies

77

u/trash-party-apoc 10d ago

The parents belong in jail.

→ More replies

939

u/Use_this_1 10d ago Bravo Grande!

Everyone failed that teacher, the boy's parents, the school. Administration needs to be at the very least reprimanded if not terminated and the boys parents belong in jail and the child needs extensive mental health care and should not be allowed other children.

311

u/Minnesota_Slim 10d ago

I would never want to work for an admin that wanted to “wait it out” when it comes to gun threats. I could never trust them again. They should be done with education.

210

u/RocketizedAnimal 9d ago

My wife was an 8th grade teacher, quit at the end of last year.

One of the major reasons she quit was a gun incident they had. One kid brought a gun, and one of his friends was carrying bullets. They caught the kid with the gun but because he wasn't carrying the bullets at the time they said it was unloaded and only suspended him for a week.

My wife said she didn't feel safe with this kid back in her class and filled out paperwork stating this, because that is the only way to force the administration to actually move him.

The kid threw a fit about it, and her principal told him "well its your math teacher's fault, she filled out paperwork to get you in trouble". For the rest of the year he made burner emails and instagram accounts to harass her and they wouldn't do anything about it because "we can't prove it is him".

She quit as soon as her contract ended.

108

u/Brewmentationator 9d ago

I'm a high school teacher, and I would use up the rest of my paid leave and then quit. Fuck that. I am absolutely breaking contract over that.

78

u/NoteBlock08 9d ago

Wtf! She doesn't feel safe so the principal thinks it's appropriate to rat her out to the one she feels threatened by?!

Thank fucking god she quit and that kid didn't decide to exact revenge.

→ More replies

39

u/SetYourGoals 9d ago

How much you want to bet that this same administration were overreactive pains in the ass about a bunch of pointless shit like what clothes the kids wear or something.

A physical gun is the ONE thing you have to wildly overreact to.

→ More replies

187

u/cuckjager 10d ago

Terminated is the least.

→ More replies

100

u/western_red 10d ago

I'm surprised no one called the police when the administration didn't care.

I'm assuming that if they did, this situation could have been handled better and those the teachers who called the police would have been punished by the same apathetic administration for "not handling it internally".

66

u/SamurottX 10d ago

I'm sure somebody wanted to but was told to handle it internally (aka not handle it at all). Imagine if they were told, "no we can't call the police because what if they mess up and hurt the child, or even someone innocent" which would be a frustrating way to go full circle on all the issues the US has been having.

→ More replies
→ More replies

26

u/borkus 10d ago

Any administrator who interacted with the incident and possibly any administrator in the building is going to be terminated. Keeping them in the building would create a massive uproar from parents.

I don’t know if they can lose their credentials for this but no district in the country would hire them at this point. Their careers in education are over.

→ More replies

115

u/housebird350 10d ago

boys parents belong in jail

On felonies. They should no longer be allowed to buy or posses firearms. Im a proponent of 2A, but at some point, some people forfeit their rights and I think these people are at that point.

→ More replies
→ More replies

389

u/Moodybeachphoto 10d ago

They had it secured but he got the gun. It had a lock but he shot the gun. They usually go to school with him every day but this was the one week they didn’t… yeah these parents are full of shit.

→ More replies

478

u/PMSoldier2000 10d ago

My daughter was a teacher, and this is precisely the level of support she received from her administration regarding violent students. In spite of her warnings to the administration, she did not feel safe because of one or two student's threats and behaviors. She was once attacked by a student with scissors and the child was returned to the classroom after about 30 minutes. My daughter left teaching after 5 years and hasn't looked back. And we wonder why there is a teacher shortage.

211

u/fuckityfuckfuckf_ck 9d ago

When I worked at a restaurant I would chat with the delivery drivers from Uber Eats and many, many of them were ex-teachers who picked up delivery bc they walked off the job. Many, many of them walked off the job bc they were attacked by a student and told to get back to work with the student in their classroom.

81

u/shinywtf 9d ago

Yeah during my last move one of my movers had been a teacher for 8 years before he gave up for similar reasons. Also said he made more money now 🤷‍♀️

→ More replies
→ More replies

442

u/earhere 10d ago

The only person who did the right thing in this situation is the person who got shot.

595

u/HappyAmbition706 10d ago

The kid who reported being shown the gun did the right thing also.

210

u/xi545 10d ago

That's terrifying for that little boy. And what did his parents think when he got home? Absolutely ridiculous.

204

u/PoeDameronPoeDamnson 10d ago

I imagine they realized how close they came to identifying their child’s body that day then had to stop themselves from breaking down in front of their 6 year old over it.

I’d also imagine they immediately looked into homeschooling options because like hell would I be sending my baby back to that district.

→ More replies
→ More replies
→ More replies
→ More replies

846

u/StrengthDazzling8922 10d ago

The gun was not “secured”. A six year old got access to it and shot his teacher. Parent or parents should be arrested and personally sued by that teacher for every penny they have or ever will have.

346

u/abortionleftovers 10d ago

“The gun was secured” the fact that your 6 year old brought it to school proved that was a lie.

34

u/fastIamnot 9d ago

It magically teleported itself into the kid's pocket.

→ More replies
→ More replies

167

u/MillionPtsofLight 10d ago

Exactly, the gun was clearly not secured as their kid had all the tools he needed to gain access to it. They also must have taught him how to load and shoot it.

→ More replies
→ More replies

151

u/findhumorinlife 10d ago

‘Wait the situation out’ ? FFS!

→ More replies

217

u/Any-Environment-17 10d ago

I've heard so many horror stories from teachers about school admin. Some Admin are so bad they probably think the teacher deserved to get shot.

69

u/Sweet-Sale-7303 10d ago

In the district I live in they found bullets in a package in the lobby of the school. Administration said eh oh well and didn't even tell people till 3 days later. Didn't evacuate to see if somebody was walking around with a gun or anything.

→ More replies

161

u/jb2051 10d ago

I got injured by a student. Have sciatic nerve damage plus pinched nerves in my neck, wrist, and elbow. Waiting on surgery for wrist and elbow. Just had MRI on neck yesterday. Yep, my district said I was lying about my pain and stopped all my care. Three years later and still wandering when all this will end but know reality says it’s lifetime.

48

u/sorrysorrymybad 10d ago

I'm sorry that happened to you. This makes my blood boil.

→ More replies

27

u/Worthyness 9d ago

Admin is where most of the budget goes because it sure as hell doesn't go to the teachers or supplies.

→ More replies

47

u/Seattle_gldr_rdr 10d ago

Every aspect of this story reeks of inexplicable dysfunction.

→ More replies

45

u/AnybodySeeMyKeys 10d ago

I have immense respect for teachers. School administrators? Not so much. Essentially bureaucrats who literally cannot think in anything but rigid and predetermined ways.

If a teacher reported a kid was brandishing a gun, anybody with the IQ of a rhesus monkey would know to take the gun from the kid immediately. Either by walking in and grabbing it or calling the cops.

→ More replies

1.2k

u/epidemicsaints 10d ago

Teen girls get strip searched for vapes but they can't find a gun on a tiny 6 year old's person. Maybe he's not tiny? I dunno.

301

u/IowaAJS 10d ago

Just how big of pockets are on tiny clothes for a little six year old? Was it a crazy miniature derringer or something? (I’m sure it wasn’t, but seriously…)

139

u/replus 9d ago

“The administrator downplayed the report from the teacher and the possibility of a gun, saying — and I quote — ‘Well, he has little pockets,’ ” Toscano said.

Imagine a teacher under your employ nearly gets murdered on your grounds, and your excuse is "ya know, we thought about searching him, but he's 6, ya know? Look at those tiny pockets."

30

u/IowaAJS 9d ago

Yeah, it's terrible. Some kids get in trouble for making an artistic representation of a gun and get suspended (ugh, I didn't want to use drawing in this context) and others don't even get looked at.

30

u/SirAdrian0000 9d ago

I recall a pop tart being bitten into a vaguely gun like shape getting a kid suspended.

→ More replies
→ More replies
→ More replies

22

u/Murky_Conflict3737 10d ago

Those super lightweight derringers make me so nervous. They look like a slight jolt would set them off plus some look like toys.

→ More replies

167

u/Available-Camera8691 10d ago

It was taped to his back like in Die Hard.

→ More replies
→ More replies
→ More replies

32

u/CuriousCryptid444 10d ago

I would be pissed if I was that teacher. She deserves a big payout

→ More replies

31

u/dregwriter 9d ago

“He was told to wait the situation out because the school day was almost over,”

WWWWWOOOOOOOOOWWWWWWWWW

the shear amount of just pure, I dont give a fuck/ out of sight out of mind/ not my responsibility attitude in that one sentence.

Im blown away by this statement. Just fuck them kids, right!?

27

u/Iceescape81 10d ago

Hopefully these lawsuits will make administrators take teacher safety more seriously. Apparently in the last 20 years, administrators tend to not back up their teachers for fear of potentially offending parents.

→ More replies

27

u/Ryanlynn2004 9d ago

Yall remember when elementary school students were getting suspended for finger guns and eating a pop tart to make a shape of a gun? Now we are at this.

We need to be somewhere in the middle.

118

u/RamonaQ-JunieB 10d ago

This sounds exactly like the modern administrator:

Down play, do nothing, blame everyone else for the problems that are in YOUR BUILDING! Take NO responsibility for anything and then wonder why nobody respects you.

They need to be fired or forced out of their jobs immediately.

And yes, I just retired after teaching elementary school for 44 years. There is too much blame to go around.

→ More replies

194

u/Zamboniqueen 10d ago

Jesus. My kid got written up in 1st grade for making “finger guns” when he was playing a game. WTF.

69

u/WSDGuy 9d ago

There was also that famous pop-tart-bitten-into-a-vaguely-gun-shape incident.

→ More replies
→ More replies

99

u/Jaymez82 10d ago

In addtion to everything else that needs to be examined with a fine toothed comb, I want this explored more.

The family also said in its statement that the boy has an “acute disability” and was under a care plan “that included his mother or father attending school with him and accompanying him to class every day.” The week of the shooting was the first when a parent was not in class with him, the family said.

So the kid who is always shadowed by one of his parents managed to shoot his teacher during the very first week he's not with them? Maybe my tinfoil hat needs adjusting, but this smells funny to me.

31

u/KnavishBoot 10d ago

That’s what I want to know - this kid apparently has some pretty severe mental issues (to the point a parent was supposed to be with him)……..and yet he was allowed in school without one 🤷‍♂️

29

u/WSDGuy 9d ago

You would think that if something happened that caused the parents to be unable to attend, that the child would therefore be unable to attend.

→ More replies
→ More replies

335

u/overpregnant 10d ago

The family’s attorney, James Ellenson, told The Associated Press thathis understanding was that the gun was in the woman’s closet on a shelfwell over 6 feet (1.8 meters) high and had a trigger lock that required akey.

I mean, obviously not dude

edited to add: In my fantasy world they attach felony charges to the owners of guns "found" by kids. Maybe they need more of an incentive to actually become the responsible gun owners we keep hearing about

91

u/fivelinedskank 10d ago

Something about the way the attorney said it's "his understanding" seems telling, like he doesn't want to state it as an actual assertion. There probably are legal repercussions to leaving it easily accessible, which is why likely the reason for the statement.

→ More replies
→ More replies

18

u/daphydoods 10d ago

It’s a miracle that she made it out alive and I’m not just talking about the gunshots she sustained…it could have been so, so much worse

57

u/igirisujin 10d ago

I hope that Abigail Zwerner gets a huge settlement. I'd also like to see the mother (and father if at the house, but have only seen the mother mentioned) do some time behind bars, but not sure if that is likely.

→ More replies

14

u/ExCap2 9d ago

I wish more schools had balls to kick out students temporarily or permanently. BUT BUT I PAY SCHOOL TAXES?!?!?! You must accept my student! No. 1 student messing up an entire classroom from learning is unacceptable. If you're taking the tax stance it's 30 other student's parents paying taxes against you.

A lot of people complain about School Resource Officers, but if teachers, principals can't do anything; you need a parent or SRO to physically calm down or remove a student these days. Crazy times. Too much parenting responsibility is put on schools.

17

u/FightmeLuigibestgirl 9d ago
  • The kid said that he wanted to set a teacher on fire and watch her die.
  • The kid, at 6, managed to get a gun that was supposed to be in a lockbox 6ft high from the parents
  • Kid managed to bring it to school, unsupervised
  • Parents have to physically be with the kid and magically were not on that day for some reason
  • The kid threaten multiple times with the gun and none of the staff did anything, called the police, etc.
  • Nobody took the gun away and the higher-ups told them that to "wait until the end of the day."

It looks like everyone failed but the teacher. I don't understand this.

110

u/divinbuff 10d ago

There are some kids with behavioral issues so serious that they should not be in a classroom Period. We expect the schools to handle situations they are not equipped to handle. This kid sounds like he needs to be institutionalized for his own benefit and the safety of those around him. He is way past just needing some additional supervision.

I don’t know how he got that way, but I do know it’s not the schools responsibility to straighten him out.

→ More replies