r/news Jan 14 '22 Wholesome 18 Evil Cackle 3 Silver 19 Gold 1 Helpful 19

Shkreli ordered to return $64M, is barred from drug industry

https://apnews.com/article/martin-shkreli-daraprim-profits-fb77aee9ed155f9a74204cfb13fc1130
54.9k Upvotes

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3.6k

u/Ffffqqq Jan 14 '22 Silver

241

u/ajb32 Jan 14 '22

He def sounds like a sociopath. And of course he doesn't pay taxes. Fucker

262

u/De3NA Jan 14 '22

His plan was pretty genius. Raising the cost of some medicine so that he could charge the insurance company an insane amount and also offer cheap medicine if you contact him directly. If someone were to do both it’s a win win lose for the insurance company.

100

u/Thx002 Jan 14 '22

if you contact him directly.

It was for free if you contacted him.

However that was after the huge backlash so it's smart damage control.

I never understand why the guy went so public about everything, he was actively seeking the infamy. Doing a reddit AMA, doing livestreams... The Wu Tang thing.

If he had shut his mouth he would still be making millions and people would only only him by name.

18

u/De3NA Jan 15 '22

I get it. He went crazy.

1

u/pimpy543 Jan 15 '22

He got cocky.

1

u/[deleted] Jan 15 '22

[deleted]

1

u/pimpy543 Jan 15 '22

Yeah he doesn’t have to give all of it back. He made a lot of money because of interest.

1

u/Convergentshave Jan 16 '22

I mean if you try and fuck over the wealthy or the insurance companies in America yea you must be crazy because you’re going to prison/suicided lol.

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u/Lost4468 Jan 15 '22

I watched a bunch of his livestreams etc when he was out. He also seems to live very frugally. He was living in a smallish apartment (in NYC but still) that just looked above average, outside of his suits etc his clothes looked pretty cheap, had cheap shit around his home, didn't buy fancy shit like cars etc from what I could see.

I think he lives for his ego. Doesn't seem like he really gives much of a shit about actually using money, just seeing it as a high score. Similarly he kept doing stupid shit to keep him in the news cycle. He ended up losing his bail because he couldn't resist writing a tweet about Hillary Clinton. Despite it being pretty clear he had an ok knowledge of pharmaceuticals, he'd still bullshit and pretend he knew way more on stream, which was ridiculous because there literally are plenty of things he legitimately knows about.

When you watch him on shows/streaming/podcasts/etc though he does come off as pretty down to earth, and even likeable. h3h3 was right in the video linked above, dude seems to have two personalities. It's so weird when you see him talking normally, and he's pretty courteous with the conversation, generally respectful, is fine with discussions that are critical of him, etc. It's weird because when you see assholes like this they're nearly always unbearable.

I guess it's some sort of borderline personality disorder thing? I guess he's pretty normal most of the time, then just absolutely has to blow his ego up randomly, or has to attack someone. Really fucking weird.

11

u/bubumamajuju Jan 15 '22

I don’t think he grew up very wealthy which is pretty unusual for someone with his level of wealth.

I legitimately think some of the sentencing - outside of major external factors in public opinion and various investors he pissed off - was really influenced by frustration in NY over a similar narcissistic borderline personality disorder man who climbed even higher and never had any consequences at all.

2

u/ashleyyspinelli Jan 15 '22

I watched a doc about him. At first I thought the apartment was small but at the end you get to see it and it was big imo.

1

u/Lost4468 Jan 15 '22

Where to? But yeah even if it is large, is it $100m large?

1

u/Socrates_Aristo Jan 16 '22

It sounds a lot like narcissism, which is similar to borderline personality disorder in many ways. However, he seems to have a sense of superiority and will do anything to maintain that even if it means having ‘two personalities’ (technically, personas).

2

u/Interrophish Jan 15 '22

It was for free if you contacted him.

did he ever actually pay out on that

1

u/ragged-robin Jan 15 '22

He's a real life comic villian

280

u/ajb32 Jan 14 '22

Yeah. Except the insurers just pass the cost on to the people they insure. It's not like they're taking a loss. So yeah it's lucrative for him but he's just taking money from people playing insurance premiums.

The system in the US is beyond fucked. The fact we have a health insurance industry seems like a symptom of a problem to me. Insurers serve the shareholder first and the insured second.

145

u/rephyus Jan 14 '22

Except that its the standard for the ENTIRE industry. Look up any life saving drug, be in awe at the cost and then look up if they have a subsidy program. They always do.

Its much easier to paint a target on an individual versus a faceless corporation. Big pharma shifted all the spotlight on Shkreli because he was an individual. Doesn't help that he also has a punchable face. Another example would be the Elizabeth Holmes from Theranos. Not only was she found as a fraud, she actively kept trying to get into the spotlight. The media gets its tributes, and Big pharma gets to run away with the profits and the general public lose.

11

u/drumology2001 Jan 15 '22 edited Jan 15 '22

You’re right about the life-saving drug thing. I have Multiple Sclerosis, and I take Vumerity. I am on the manufacturer’s Co-Pay Assistance program…but if I wasn’t? They want FIVE THOUSAND dollars a month for those pills. It’s insane.

Also, Shkreli’s face is 1000% punchable. Smug AF.

10

u/Helenium_autumnale Jan 15 '22

So everyone can get the subsidy?

These prices are not the industry standard. Drugs are far cheaper in Europe and Canada. https://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/20/upshot/to-reduce-the-cost-of-drugs-look-to-europe.html

1

u/bubumamajuju Jan 15 '22

Europe and Canada ultimately get cheaper pricing because Americans are subsidizing them. There’s cost advantages to different systems of different countries compared to the US but it’s fundamentally as simple as: they can get pharmaceuticals for less if Americans pay more.

You have to apply for the subsidy. There’s generally income thresholds but the companies will work with your situation. And there’s lot of people who ultimately get life saving drugs completely free (even Shkreli’s company was offering patients financial assistance).

2

u/Neps21 Jan 15 '22

Bread and circuses man. Or some sh*t about Rome.

1

u/agentobtuse Jan 15 '22

Can confirm, 80k every 6 months with 20k subsidy. Ocrevus is the drug if anyone is wondering

140

u/Buy-N-Sell Jan 14 '22

You’re not wrong at all, but he was doing what every other drug CEO does, and unluckily became the poster boy for our fucked up healthcare system. So many people in this thread think he was literally charging individuals hundreds of dollars directly, when, in fact, you could literally buy it directly from the company for like a dollar if you didn’t have insurance coverage. The masses just took the sensationalist headlines and ran with them.

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u/PM_PICS_OF_ME_NAKED Jan 14 '22

They gave out daraprim to people who couldn't afford it.

11

u/[deleted] Jan 15 '22 edited Mar 07 '22

[deleted]

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u/bubumamajuju Jan 15 '22

Lol… you’re essentially asking for patient data which is illegal to give out.

Every company offers income-based affordability plans. Look at more popular drugs and you’ll find someone off insurance sharing their experience of how they get a necessary drug for a subsidized price or free.

I don’t know any pharma companies that plainly state the amount of drugs they give out free… presumably because there’s zero benefit to it. You could be pessimistic and say that’s because none of the companies want patients to know about the affordability of their drugs but honestly people like you will almost certainly be skeptical regardless.

The reality is the pricing was done in a calculated way for an obscure and rare disease with a very small patient count and most patients have insurance. I think there’s a lot of general ignorance about how this works because it’s so different than other day to day goods/services… it’s almost like Reddit implicitly has this understanding that going to a hospital with a rare disease will have your doctor and nurses asking you: “would you like to purchase an additional ibuprofen this morning for 12.99 a pill? We will start the primary treatment when we get a check made out to the hospital for 10k “

17

u/Swamp85 Jan 14 '22

you could literally buy it directly from the company for like a dollar if you didn’t have insurance coverage.

I've never seen a source given for proof of this other than Shkreli saying it offhand once.

The masses just took the sensationalist headlines and ran with them.

And the reddit masses (i.e. you) took the bullshit excuses he constantly gave and ran with that because have to be a contrarian

9

u/CommanderUnstoppable Jan 14 '22

You can go watch the documentary on him they interview a guy who got the medicine when he DMed him on Reddit.

14

u/Swamp85 Jan 14 '22

Are you talking about the VICE one? Because they definitely don't interview anyone but Shkreli in that one and that's the only one I'm aware of.

9

u/BigNastyMitch Jan 15 '22

There's another called Pharma Bro, they don't interview Shkreli at all and there is a guy who dmed him and got it free.

12

u/digital_fingerprint Jan 15 '22

Do you mind composing a list of all pharmaceutical CEO reddit and Twitter handles just in case I might need something.

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u/GloriousReign Jan 15 '22

That’s every ceo does, the economy is built supporting an upperclass

1

u/Steve-O7777 Jan 15 '22

He didn’t even get arrested for raising drug prices - that was 100% legal. He was convicted for moving money from one of his hedge funds to another.

-2

u/thedarkarmadillo Jan 14 '22

*In steaming shithole countries. You have to qualify that lm because In decent, developed countries that doesn't get passed down on the customer

-3

u/CockMySock Jan 15 '22

Steaming shithole countries vs decent developed countries

LOL. Tell me where are you from and which category do you think it falls in?

6

u/thedarkarmadillo Jan 15 '22

My country thinks healthy citizens are a worthwhile investment and shouldnt bankrupt it's people vs countries that Do.

Guess?

-5

u/CockMySock Jan 15 '22

My condolences.

0

u/thedarkarmadillo Jan 15 '22

Great reply. Absolutely stellar. did you think of it yourself or did you have to crawl out of the basement to ask your mom for help with it?

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3

u/Salamok Jan 14 '22

Definition of beyond fucked: A system of for profit healthcare where a single individual is capable of pulling $100m out of that system without contributing a single thing.

3

u/[deleted] Jan 14 '22 edited Jan 15 '22

If he was doing it to show that the us healthcare system is shit, I agree with his message but not his delivery of it. You know a lot of people got hurt. It's like setting a building on fire to tell people it's not up to fire code.

4

u/Thehealthygamer Jan 14 '22

This is a case of hate the game, not the player. The problem lies in how the system is set up to be exploited like this. Shkreli is certainly not the first and won't be the last person to pull this BS.

4

u/ajb32 Jan 14 '22

I agree. I think it's fair to hate players of this game though.

3

u/Thehealthygamer Jan 14 '22

Good point. Perfectly okay to hate the pharmaceutical and insurance industry and the individual players.

3

u/egyeager Jan 14 '22

He was/is the type of guy to take a broken system and exploit the fuck out of it.

Another example with him, at one point he wanted to buy every single copy of the magic the gathering card "Black Lotus". Black lotus is very expensive and is part of a list of cards that are both very expensive, legal for tournament play (in certain formats) and wizards of the coast will never, ever reprint (due to alleged threat of lawsuit). That system is broken, and he was ready to absolutely ream it and fundamentally shape it around him. He would, in theory, be able to shape the fabric of magic the gathering at an economic level.

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u/NinjaLanternShark Jan 14 '22

This.

Please don't think any practice that "only affects insurance companies" is a good thing. I get that lots of people don't pay for their insurance and thus never see the high cost of premiums, but that high cost affects how much employers can pay workers, how likely employers are to offer insurance, and also affects millions of people who pay for all or part of their insurance themselves.

When you see a company charging one customer $1 and another customer $1000, there's massive corruption going on, pure and simple. Doesn't matter if you think you're on the $1 end, you're still getting screwed.

4

u/TheOneWithThePorn12 Jan 14 '22 edited Jan 15 '22

The entire medical industry is an overinflated balloon because of the insurance companies.

Just like with anything else they will inflate costs, charge it to the insurer and the insurer passes it on to you. They just don't blatantly tell you to your face they are doing it

2

u/NobleFraud Jan 14 '22

The medicine he increased thr cost is not so much in demand to the point raising its prices increase insurance premium. Stop spouting nonsense

2

u/ajb32 Jan 14 '22

Ok. So where does an insurance company get the money to pay for that medicine?

2

u/NobleFraud Jan 14 '22

As I said a small medicine with little demand won't affect the insurance premium, if it's a medicine with greater demand it will start eating up on actual profits of insurance.thats when they increase the price... We are talking about billions in profits so a few thousands for small customer pool won't be good enough reason to increase the premium and lose greater amount of people.

1

u/boogersrus Jan 15 '22

Wait until the premiums go up from all those billions pharma made from vaccines and tests and the rest.

3

u/Steve-O7777 Jan 15 '22

He didn’t actually get arrested for this as it’s 100% legal and there were other companies also engaging in the practice. His conviction was for taking profits from one of the hedge funds he ran and used them to fund a different hedge fund he ran in order to keep that fund solvent long enough until it stabilized.

1

u/tekpc811 Jan 15 '22

Sounds like he rattled the tail of the insurance industry and they paid to put dirt on him.

-4

u/Hy-Brasil Jan 15 '22

Modern day Robin Hood, expert he got greedy and lost.

7

u/wise_young_man Jan 15 '22

I think Robin Hood gave the money to the poor. This guy kept it.

1

u/FLdancer00 Jan 15 '22

More likely a narc, he seems to enjoy the damage he inflicts.

1

u/No-Equal-2690 Jan 15 '22

It’s sad though because he’s just the one scape-goat. He represents the thinking and actions of a huge portion of the upper echelons of society. For every one Shkreli that goes down there’s 10,000 more just like him getting away with it, legally corroding society.