r/news Jan 14 '22 Silver 19 Gold 1 Helpful 19 Wholesome 18 Evil Cackle 3

Shkreli ordered to return $64M, is barred from drug industry

https://apnews.com/article/martin-shkreli-daraprim-profits-fb77aee9ed155f9a74204cfb13fc1130
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283

u/Vlad_the_Homeowner Jan 14 '22

Price gouging has happened on multiple life saving drugs?

Yes, this has happened all across the medical field. For Epi pens, BMS's cancer treatment, Questcor's pediatric epilepsy treatment, Valeant's heart medication...

Shkreli just became the poster boy for it because of this face. It is physically impossible to not hate that face, ask his mom.

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u/[deleted] Jan 14 '22

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/rackotlogue Jan 14 '22

Worst boxer in history

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u/Mental_Medium3988 Jan 14 '22

if punchablefaces was still a thing he would be top post ever. with second being the joker from suicide squad.

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u/Cornsky Jan 15 '22

I honestly couldn’t finish the recent documentary about him because of that smile. And the iris-voiding pupils he often has. He’s mentally ill, not successful.

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u/Perkinz Jan 14 '22

Shkreli became the poster boy for it because he directly targeted the medical-industrial-complex by calling their bluff in a way that they couldn't just pass on to their customers.

He beat the healthcare consortiums at their own game so they got their buddies in the mainstream media to trick the masses into thinking he was specifically screwing over the little guy and not the big guy.

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u/FireBeyond Jan 14 '22

Bullshit. He has, on multiple occasions, lobbied the FDA to not approve drugs - not for any medical reason, or safety, or patents, or cost.

Merely because they competed with his more profitable drug.

And then he said that "consumers weren't paying his inflated prices, so had no cause to complain"... as if the amount they billed insurers was paid for by some magical fairy, not the consumers premiums (or their employer).

Don't be thinking he is any kind of hero, no matter how shitty the healthcare model is in this country.

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u/Burningshroom Jan 15 '22

I don't think that he was implying that he's a good person.

I think this guy was saying Shkreli went to prison because he gamed the industry in a way that would hurt the other companies' profits not just consumers.

Mess with rich people's money and they'll hold you accountable.

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u/Vlad_the_Homeowner Jan 15 '22

No, he was referring to Shkreli raising the price of drugs, one of them over 50x. Reddit has convinced itself that this is an example of 'sticking it to the man'.

But that has nothing to do with why he went to prison.

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u/Burningshroom Jan 15 '22

I haven't seen anyone frame Shkreli in a favorable light, like ever and his name was plastered all over here for some time. Nor have I ever encountered him, "sticking it to the man". After all, he opened by pointing out he's a poster boy for price gouging.

I have, as it seems this guy has done, seen people make the argument that he raised prices and shut down competition in a way that hurt everyone, not just consumers. This guy seems to be implying that he would have gotten away with it if it only hurt consumers, which I agree with.

He did so by mentioning the other companies couldn't pass the cost to consumers. That doesn't mean consumers get it for free. It means the other companies would have had to cut some profits to feed an easier lie to the public. This is a bold move by Shkreli as it lets him dig into more pockets, but he dug into deep pockets.

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u/Vlad_the_Homeowner Jan 15 '22

I haven't seen anyone frame Shkreli in a favorable light, like ever and his name was plastered all over here for some time. Nor have I ever encountered him, "sticking it to the man".

Read this thread.

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u/Burningshroom Jan 15 '22

Okay yeah... I see them now.

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u/mrdilldozer Jan 15 '22

It's so crazy that people will defend this guy just because he posted to Reddit once or twice. Redditors will overlook how awful of a person he was just because he patted them on the heads lol

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u/lb1331 Jan 15 '22

The drug he did this with was used by so few people it probably wouldn’t have affected premiums significantly at all. Not saying he’s a saint, just pointing that out.

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u/WallyWendels Jan 15 '22

He literally did it to put the screws to insurance companies. Thats why theres so much McDonalds Hot Coffee-grade propaganda being spewed out by "progressives" who cant admit they were duped again.

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u/lb1331 Jan 15 '22

He did screw insurance companies, but probably not out of an amount significant enough to largely impact peoples premiums

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u/[deleted] Jan 14 '22

[deleted]

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u/mrdilldozer Jan 15 '22

Yes, but he did live streams and posted le dank memes. He can't be a bad guy /s

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u/yourmotherinabag Jan 15 '22

You clearly dont understand medical billing. The hospital is not eating cost/losing money by buying it and administering it. Thats not at all how it works.

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u/Vlad_the_Homeowner Jan 14 '22

By buying out old compound and marking up the cost 10-fold despite not having any increases to the cost of manufacture. He didn't add any value to the product or customer, he just wants his slice of the pie over the transaction and dump it on the medical industry. He's nothing but a... hedge fund manager. Oh wait.

Same guy who shorted developing biotech companies and then blasted lies about them through his gossip websites. How is that not screwing over the little guy?

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u/XDDDSOFUNNEH Jan 14 '22

From what I've heard it was:

People without insurance got it for free.

People with insurance didn't actually have to pay more, it was their insurance that got fucked.

Shkreli fucked over the useless middle man that usually just sits back and reaps easy profit, hence he went to prison. And of course, now our government is saying he's a monster, huge piece of shit, the usual.

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u/TheOneWithThePorn12 Jan 14 '22

Of course. If you try to fuck over big business you get fucked

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u/ThatOneGuy1294 Jan 14 '22

Welcome to the Capitalist States of America

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u/noiamholmstar Jan 15 '22

Do you really think the insurance companies just eat that cost and say “Damn, I guess he got us”. Hell no, insurance premiums go up to everyone who has insurance. The big guys didn’t get fucked at all and all the millions of little guys all got fucked a little bit. But sure, go ahead and continue thinking he was some kind of hero.

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u/[deleted] Jan 15 '22 edited Mar 07 '22

[deleted]

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u/[deleted] Jan 15 '22 edited Apr 24 '22

[deleted]

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u/Vlad_the_Homeowner Jan 15 '22

What about where he was shorting small startup biotechnology companies then slandering them with gossip and lies to tank the companies so he can cash in on his short? These were small companies trying to improve medical care.

What about the investors he scammed for securities fraud?

What about the companies he illegally forced out of market so he could maintain a monopoly and keep his prices unnecessarily high?

He was found guilty on all of these, BTW. Jesus Christ you idiots are hell bent on making him into some sort of Robin Hood.

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u/latchkey_adult Jan 14 '22

The insurance companies get fucked but if you want to know why your premiums are so high, there's the answer.

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u/SoundOfTomorrow Jan 15 '22

You know that's not the reason. Look at how insurance companies do any kind of billing.

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u/SupaSlide Jan 15 '22

My insurance was already fucking expensive, it didn't get any more expensive because Shkreli fucked them.

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u/_bionic_beaver_ Jan 15 '22

So Shkreli had no effect on you?

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u/Perkinz Jan 14 '22

He marked up how much he was charging medical providers while also providing it directly to anyone whose insurance companies weren't willing to eat the increased cost.

If he was just increasing the cost to the little guy without affecting the MIC's margins you'd never have heard of it happening, let alone known his name or face.

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u/Vlad_the_Homeowner Jan 14 '22

while also providing it directly to anyone whose insurance companies weren't willing to eat the increased cost.

He only offered to do that after the backlash, and there were numerous caveats to who qualified. I couldn't find any evidence that they actually did this, but I found some articles of people complaining they couldn't afford it any more and weren't getting it free.

He was recently successfully sued for illegally blocking other manufacturers into the market to offer generic versions of this medication. I understand the pure business stance in this. But as someone who as worked in medical technology advancement for their entire life, I can absolutely say this isn't how it always is. Many companies do put the patient first, and would not stoop this low to edge out competition.

You're accepting his price gouging simply because you think insurance companies are worse bad guys then him. I'm not arguing on behalf of insurance companies, but the system is broken and Shkreli is one more example of it. That alone is enough for me to dislike him. But add in him destroying startup companies trying to advance medical technology all so Shkreli can win a bet and buy more WuTang albums? Screw that.

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u/WallyWendels Jan 15 '22

I'm not arguing on behalf of insurance companies, but the system is broken and Shkreli is one more example of it.

Yes, you are. Youre doing absolutely nothing but misrepresenting the situation and spewing out insurance company approved talking points to explicitly defend them.

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u/Vlad_the_Homeowner Jan 15 '22

Where am I defending insurance companies? Go on, I'll wait.

I'm arguing that Shkreli is an asshole and gave several examples why, including his stunt with Daraprim. That has nothing to do with insurance companies.

You guys are arguing that Shkreli isn't an asshole because insurance is a bigger asshole and he's "sticking it to them". That's the sum of your entire stance.

He didn't add value (other than to his companies investors). He didn't improve the product, improve manufacturing, improve distribution, increase R&D. Nothing improved. Even if it didn't cost consumers a penny (which it did), does that still make him an OK guy for passing that cost onto insurance companies? Do you really think that it just cuts into their profit margin and they don't in turn pass it on to us?

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u/WallyWendels Jan 15 '22

Where am I defending insurance companies? Go on, I'll wait.

.

'm arguing that Shkreli is an asshole and gave several examples why, including his stunt with Daraprim. That has nothing to do with insurance companies.

Right here. You placate the narrative and spit out insurance company approved bullshit.

You guys are arguing that Shkreli isn't an asshole because insurance is a bigger asshole and he's "sticking it to them". That's the sum of your entire stance.

No. My stance is that Shekreli's entire stunt was a spit in the face for insurance companies. Nothing more. There is absolutely zero "asshole" component to flipping off one of the biggest cancers in corporate society.

Nothing improved. Even if it didn't cost consumers a penny (which it did), does that still make him an OK guy for passing that cost onto insurance companies?

How the fuck is insurance companies having things made more difficult for them not an improvement? More importantly you keep actively lying about the reason for the price hike, which is more corporate ball gargling. The alternative treatment that was then cheaper after the price hike was a massive improvement for patients. Those patients were forced to take a goddamn poison because the degenerates running insurance companies wouldn't pay for anything but the $10 pill.

Do you really think that it just cuts into their profit margin and they don't in turn pass it on to us?

Jesus Christ dont gag on that corporate dick. Relax.

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u/yourhomiemike Jan 14 '22

This is a lie. There is ample examples from various hospitals and aids patients groups saying they can't get the drug anymore after he took ownership because we was restricting it's supply to not let generic producers enter the market

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u/WallyWendels Jan 15 '22

Yes, because the drug he raised the price on was awful, and the alternative treatment for it was extremely expensive, but insurance companies wouldn't pay for the expensive treatment because the awful drug was so much cheaper.

Nobody wants the $10 drug.

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u/FireBeyond Jan 14 '22

Where do the insurers get money to pay those charges?

Oh, yeah, from consumers and their employers.

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u/WallyWendels Jan 15 '22

Imagine tripling down on being wrong so hard that you defend insurance companies.

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u/FireBeyond Jan 15 '22

You’re an idiot. When a health insurer pays a claim, pays for a drug, where is that money coming from?

At no point did I ever defend an insurance company, so your comprehension skills are just as flawed.

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u/WallyWendels Jan 15 '22

Insurance companies will never lose money. Youre defending them by justifying punishing consumers for them getting spit on.

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u/FireBeyond Jan 15 '22

To be extremely clear - Shkreli's actions hurt everyone. Consumers, employers, and insurance providers. Your failure to grasp that is the problem here, because you've bought into his bullshit that he's somehow some altruistic gentleman spitting on insurers on the little guy's behalf.

Insurers get their ability to pay those premiums from you and I. They're legally required to cap their profits at a set percentage of premiums. A $750 drug still costs $750, whether you're paying $750 out of your pocket, or you're paying a $20 copay and your insurer is paying $730 out of the premiums you[1] paid them.

Fuck insurance companies.

Fuck Shkreli.

Keep on believing he was Robin Hood'ing the insurance companies. That's exactly what he hoped you'd think.

[1] whether it was you on the marketplace, or your employer as part of your compensation.

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u/Vlad_the_Homeowner Jan 15 '22

Save your breath, this guy is a fucking moron. He's incapable of understanding beyond "insurance bad".

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u/keiye Jan 14 '22

Because he was giving it away for free to people without insurance

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u/Vlad_the_Homeowner Jan 14 '22

He said he would do that, only after the backlash, and if they met certain conditions. I couldn't find any evidence that they actually did so, but if you can provide some links to something other than the statement of a convicted criminal and liar, I'll read it.

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u/ThatOneGuy1294 Jan 14 '22

He didn't just want his slice of the pie, he wants to own every pie factory purely so he can profit. The only thing that really matters to people like Shkreli, is money. Everything else is just an obstacle in the way of hoarding money.

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u/Vlad_the_Homeowner Jan 15 '22

Yeah, that was pretty much my point. But as you can see from some of the responses I got and their upvotes, plenty of people don't care. They too just want their slice of the pie and don't see anything wrong with others doing the same, so long as we can pass the blame onto some big corporation.

And I'm in no way supporting the insurance corporations and our broken medical system. I'm just saying that doesn't excuse Shkreli for being a POS.

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u/ThatOneGuy1294 Jan 15 '22

Yeah I'm also quite surprised to see so many comments defending him with the justification of "others do it too"

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u/DirtyKarma Jan 14 '22

He was actually giving it for free to people who didn’t have insurance and shockingly that hurt his case.

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u/Vlad_the_Homeowner Jan 15 '22

Was he actually though? Because as far as I know he only offered to do that after a huge backlash. And I'm seeing no proof he actually did that, whereas there were plenty of people complaining that their personal cost increase skyrocketed.

What about people that do have insurance, but still struggle to make ends meet? Most of those people don't have impressive insurance coverage on things like this.

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u/DirtyKarma Jan 15 '22

Yeah anyone who’s insurance didn’t cover he did.

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u/daemmonium Jan 15 '22

Shkreli became the poster boy for trying to do the same thing every big pharma company does every Tuesday for 25 different drugs.

But he forgot to pay the right politicians and didnt have more than a hedge fund to back it up.

What I'm trying to say is that if he was any big pharma company and was lobbying properly he would have gotten away with it

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u/JZeus_09 Jan 14 '22

He did nothing wrong but exposed the corruption that’s always been there under government investors..oops I meant government protectors

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u/assblaster-1000 Jan 15 '22

If he took his time and increased the price like 45-65% per year like the rest of us it would've been fine

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u/trolarch Jan 14 '22

Controversial opinion. I actually don’t hate him. He did something every other manufacturer is doing and said as much. He only was punished while they weren’t because he didn’t keep his mouth shut. His morals are detestable but at least he stood by what he did instead of hiding like the rest of them.

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u/Vlad_the_Homeowner Jan 14 '22

He did something every other manufacturer is doing and said as much.

Not every other, but I take your point. Yes, plenty of people pulling this BS.

But this is the same guy who shorted developing biotech companies and used smear campaigns on social media to try to ruin them. Small companies of mostly scientist working on developing a promising new technology for the good of mankind. He had no vested interest in them, no interest in the technology. Just trying to get a cut by betting against them, then using lies and mistruth to try to guarantee his win.

I can hate him.

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u/fakehalo Jan 15 '22

I recently watched "pharma bro", and made me feel more indifferent about him in some way. He blatantly abused the flaws in the free market design. Kinda need to see it like that, without emotion, to see how bad it can get... Of course I have no faith in anything being fixed, but seeing the worst of humanity thrives in that environment needs to be seen.

I'm not completely sure he knows his own motives at this point, if it was just money he could have done it a hell of a lot more silently like so many others do.

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u/Vlad_the_Homeowner Jan 15 '22

He blatantly abused the flaws in the free market design

I don't feel indifferent about that. This guy is a cancerous leech. He offers nothing; he brings nothing to the table except a plan to get himself money at the cost of others. It doesn't matter to me if what he did was perfectly legal (it wasn't). I fundamentally disagree with his approach to business. Even over-paid CEOs are at least leading their companies to expand the market, improve product, improve manufacturing, etc. Shkreli is just another business man that is solely grifting off everyone else's work.

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u/fakehalo Jan 15 '22

I'm not so much talking about your normal Joe business man/CEO. What one is capable of with the markets when you don't have morals and some initiative is essentially limitless... This guy really made it obvious, but so many others do the same shit in the shadows.

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u/Hayder2021 Jan 14 '22

They made him the poster boy villain and kept doing business as usual

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u/SongOfSworcery Jan 14 '22

He was the fall guy, pretty much. It’s the same idea as blaming an intern or a couple middle managers for a corporate scandal that really goes much higher.

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u/Anxious_Ad_2418 Jan 14 '22

Damn your opinion that went against mine and now I think I like yours better.

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u/liquor_for_breakfast Jan 14 '22

He went to prison for some shady hedge fund shit, nothing he did in the drug industry was illegal

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u/latchkey_adult Jan 14 '22

Well, a judge just levied a multimillion dollar fine and a ban for life from the industry. He obviously did something wrong.

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u/liquor_for_breakfast Jan 14 '22

Yeah, made a spectacle of himself

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u/cttouch Jan 15 '22

Yea I don’t hate his business and profit motivated ways, I just hate that he is a complete jerkoff

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u/toth42 Jan 15 '22

Extreme case of resting hit-me-face

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u/Graega Jan 15 '22

I want to punch the link to that face. And I didn't even open the link.

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u/Vlad_the_Homeowner Jan 15 '22

I'm realizing I missed an opportunity for a Rick Roll.