r/news Jan 14 '22 Silver 19 Gold 1 Helpful 19 Wholesome 18 Evil Cackle 3

Shkreli ordered to return $64M, is barred from drug industry

https://apnews.com/article/martin-shkreli-daraprim-profits-fb77aee9ed155f9a74204cfb13fc1130
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u/StinzorgaKingOfBees Jan 14 '22

Anything related to healthcare and medicine shouldn't be for profit. Then you are literally putting price tags on lives.

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u/TheLizardKing89 Jan 14 '22

If there’s not a profit motive, there will be less incentive to invest in new pharmaceuticals. If someone develops a drug that improves the lives of millions of people, they should be able to profit from that. I’m not saying they should be allowed to charge whatever they want, but the idea that any profit is bad is just ridiculous.

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u/khinzaw Jan 14 '22

Profit motive goes the other way too, companies have chosen not to develop drugs to treat rare diseases because they won't be profitable.

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u/TheLizardKing89 Jan 14 '22

There isn’t any system in the world in which rare diseases get a ton of research dollars thrown at them.

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u/horseydeucey Jan 15 '22

There isn't a system in the world in which rare diseases get a ton of research dollars thrown at them.

There's not?

Damn, someone totally should start one up... call it something like the, "Rare Diseases Clinical Research Network".

Oh wait, my bad. There is a system in the world in which... yadda yadda. Oh! And it's a part of the National Institutes of Health?! The largest single public funder of biomedical research in the world?!

But that can't be, you said such a thing doesn't exist.

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u/TheLizardKing89 Jan 15 '22

The RDCRN has an annual budget of less than $40 million. For comparison, Americans will spend about half a billion dollars ($500 million) on Halloween costumes for their pets this year.

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u/horseydeucey Jan 15 '22

Thank you. I just knew you were gonna go.... "I said 'A TON!'"

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u/TheLizardKing89 Jan 15 '22

The median cost to bring a drug to market is around $900 million. A $40 million fund split amongst several drugs is basically nothing.

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u/horseydeucey Jan 15 '22

In case you're not keeping score. The conversation has gone like this:

If someone develops a drug that improves the lives of millions of people, they should be able to profit from that.

Someone points out,

Profit motive goes the other way too, companies have chosen not to develop drugs to treat rare diseases because they won't be profitable.

You say (paraphrasing)

"No one throws a ton of money at rare diseases."

"Yeah, they do."

"But people pay more for...[X]" (as if that has ANY bearing on anything).

Now you're going back in time and qualifying the statement that I took exception to, to tie it to the cost of drug development.

Not all dollars are equal, especially not when left to the devices of accountants with for-profit companies. Oh, how they can make a dollar dance on paper!

Look, you may know more about the nuts and bolts about what happens with 'drug to market' costs. So, please let me know how open private drug companies are about the portion of your $900 million (but you know it's more, I know you do) figure... how much is out of pocket expense, and how much is 'capitalized' cost.

Real talk, if you honestly stand by this statement:

If someone develops a drug that improves the lives of millions of people, they should be able to profit from that

You would be CLAMORING for NIH to attach their name to patents. But they generally don't... leaving the profit game to the capitalists who go, 'I made this' all the way to the bank.
Meanwhile, public dollars continue to (quietly, and largely unknown and unseen by the public) help us live healthier, safer lives... absent any profit motive. At least, before the profiteers get involved.

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u/SeeArizonaBay Jan 15 '22

But but but my capital

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u/horseydeucey Jan 15 '22

I love it.
And the irony is, if anyone checks that second link, you'll see NIH justifying its mission by pointing out all the economic benefit it brings... because as so many others love saying (including the person I replied to), "you can't do anything without a profit motive!"
But then why would NIH need to crow about the economic benefit? Is that why they exist? To line capitalists' pockets?

OHHHH, so the CAPITALISTS have a vested interest in convincing the rest of us that nothing can get done unless they're assured of a profit... got it!
Because NIH just 'magics' money out of thin air. Makes so much sense to me now!

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u/khinzaw Jan 14 '22

There are systems where the government subsidizes the development and production. The US does that to some degree.

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u/TheLizardKing89 Jan 14 '22

Yes, but which diseases do they subsidize more, rare diseases or diseases that a ton of people suffer from?

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u/dicknipplesextreme Jan 14 '22

Option 3: Corn

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u/ZarMulix Jan 14 '22

There isn't any country in the world without people dying of hunger. That's not a metric by which to aspire (does it already exist). It's literally anti-innovation.