r/programming Jun 09 '23

Apollo dev posts backend code to Git to disprove Reddit’s claims of scrapping and inefficiency

https://github.com/christianselig/apollo-backend
44.8k Upvotes

2.5k comments sorted by

1.5k

u/[deleted] Jun 09 '23 edited Jun 09 '23

I’m sure the AMA tomorrow with /u/spez will be a shitshow.

Edit: showtime

680

u/Toast42 Jun 09 '23 edited Jul 05 '23

So long and thanks for all the fish

326

u/tenbatsu Jun 09 '23

Why aren't we talking about Rampart?

262

u/EpicLegendX Jun 09 '23

The intent is to provide third party developers with a sense of pride and accomplishment for purchasing API access.

As for cost, we selected initial values based upon data from other websites and their pricing models. Among other things, we're looking at average API calls from third party apps on a daily basis, and we'll be making constant adjustments to ensure that third party app developers have a price point that is compelling, rewarding, and of course attainable via proper monetization.

We appreciate the candid feedback, and the passion the community has put forth around the current topics here on Reddit, our forums and across numerous social media outlets.

Our team will continue to make changes and monitor community feedback and update everyone as soon and as often as we can.

49

u/tenbatsu Jun 09 '23

Yes, but let’s get back to talking about Rampart.

46

u/BoomstickGoesBang Jun 09 '23

It's like you own a crystal ball.

Or corporate bullshit is so easy to generate you don't even need a LLM for it.

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u/ZeroThePenguin Jun 09 '23

I'm sure it will go incredibly smoothly what with all of the negative comments being removed and only approved dick sucking posts are allowed to stay up

89

u/demizer Jun 09 '23

Homeboy will have his helpers in the db updating columns.

127

u/notRedditingInClass Jun 09 '23
Delete comments 

from threads 

where body like '%fuck%' 

or body like '%dipshit%' 

or body like '%tiananmen%'

-- where threadID = 5727592

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u/gbuub Jun 09 '23

Or body like ‘%greedy little pigboy%’

15

u/[deleted] Jun 09 '23

[deleted]

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u/Gangsir Jun 09 '23

I'm excited for either outcome. Either it's a massive meme of everyone shitting on him, or it's a display of how low he's willing to stoop, correcting everyone's comments to praise.

Will be an internet historic event, to be sure.

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u/Inquisitive_idiot Jun 09 '23

THERE IS NOT ENOUGH POPCORN IN THE WORLD FOR THIS 🤡

🍿🍿🍿🍿🍿

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3.5k

u/DoubleF3lix Jun 09 '23

spez is a mod on this subreddit lol

3.8k

u/Farados55 Jun 09 '23

Fuck u/spez, moderate this.

Or the other mods I guess.

807

u/Toast42 Jun 09 '23 edited Jul 05 '23

So long and thanks for all the fish

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u/mpierson153 Jun 09 '23

We can do it, Reddit.

Fuck u/spez.

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u/TU4AR Jun 09 '23

You can't spell cunt without spez.

103

u/diewhitegirls Jun 09 '23

I looked this over five times and while it’s clearly wrong, it’s somehow also completely correct. What sorcery is this.

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u/theavengedCguy Jun 09 '23

/u/spez can moderate deez nutz

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u/GhostalMedia Jun 09 '23

Holy fuck, that’s amazing.

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u/[deleted] Jun 09 '23

/u/spez is such a fucking loser. He can mod all he wants, but it won’t make a difference when everyone leaves this fucking shit stained website. What a fucking doorknob

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u/flashmedallion Jun 09 '23

As if he's doing any modding. That's for shmucks to do in their own time for free

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u/HangryHenry Jun 09 '23

I was about to ask if anyone knew if this sub was going to participate in the blackout. I guess not.

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u/tom-dixon Jun 09 '23

There was huge thread a few days ago, the users univocally would want to, but no words from the mods yet.

https://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/141oyj9/rprogramming_should_shut_down_from_12th_to_14th/

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u/azathoth Jun 09 '23

We used to answer questions here but then Joel Spolsky created StackOverflow and, for some reason, the mods decided that people should ask questions over there instead. Reddit's success was never attributable to the people running it.

19

u/All_Work_All_Play Jun 09 '23

Reddit's success was never attributable to the people running it.

Succeeding despite there efforts because mods put in buckets of free labor. Tale as old as time...

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7.6k

u/FyreWulff Jun 09 '23

I was honestly both creeped out and disappointed at Reddit admins for trying to: 1) falsely insinuate Apollo was abusing the API 2) falsely claim Apollo was extorting them and 3) trying to go for "Apollo is programmed bad" as a desperation attempt to appeal to nerds to turn people to their side.

2.3k

u/FC37 Jun 09 '23

When I read the article, it was legitimately hard for me to understand how Reddit's execs could have even interpreted those comments as "extortion." I still don't understand how someone's mind can jump to that from the comments that were made.

3.3k

u/timeshifter_ Jun 09 '23

Victim complex. We're talking about /u/spez here, known for silently editing comments he doesn't like. Reddit has done exactly what they said they wouldn't do, on a time scale they said they wouldn't do it in, and are attempting to deflect their obvious stupidity onto the most widely known third-party dev. Reddit is going to absolutely trash their value before they even hit IPO. They've rejected endless opportunities to make their own app suck less, and instead they've tripled down on the suck, and gone out of their way to make the main website suck for the benefit of literally nobody. They're basically just asking to be killed off at this point, and given that the entire site's moderation is done by volunteers using primarily third-party tools... the community will be only too happy to oblige.

1.5k

u/[deleted] Jun 09 '23

fuck /u/spez

998

u/[deleted] Jun 09 '23

u/spez is a fucking loser

810

u/sirboozebum Jun 09 '23 edited Jul 05 '23

This comment has been removed by the user due to reddit's policy change which effectively removes third party apps and other poor behaviour by reddit admins.

I never used third party apps but a lot others like mobile users, moderators and transcribers for the blind did.

It was a good 12 years.

So long and thanks for all the fish.

610

u/huffJenkemboofkratom Jun 09 '23

u/spez is a fucking bitch

542

u/[deleted] Jun 09 '23

Fuck u/spez

479

u/Historical_Walrus713 Jun 09 '23

u/spez is a fucking clown

54

u/Mephos Jun 09 '23

u/spez is not just a clown but the entire circus

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u/DiggerGuy68 Jun 09 '23

Clowns are funny, u/spez is just a walking fucking disappointment

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u/Samug Jun 09 '23 edited Jun 09 '23

I'm torn between downvoting coz rule of 4, or upvoting coz u/spez is a piece of shit

16

u/Elle-Elle Jun 09 '23

Rootin' tootin' updootin'

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u/euphonos23 Jun 09 '23

Reddit gold is just giving Spez money. Stop giving people gold everyone!

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u/[deleted] Jun 09 '23

/u/spez is a weaselly liar who betrayed reddit's users, has forgotten the original purpose of reddit, and is antithetical to the reasons reddit existed in the first place.

/u/spez is objectively a terrible human being who has made millions of lives worse.

/u/spez is a greedy, lying nobody, a complete and utter cunt.

139

u/[deleted] Jun 09 '23

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/1i_rd Jun 09 '23 edited Jun 09 '23

Yeah fuck spez, let's gild comments and give him money!

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u/Elle-Elle Jun 09 '23

Well, there are some people like me who have a ton of coins still in their account. I was happy to support Reddit long ago because of how much enjoyment I've gotten out of it over the years. I might as well reward comments saying fuck /u/spez because the money's been spent.

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u/[deleted] Jun 09 '23 edited Jul 14 '23

[deleted]

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u/timeshifter_ Jun 09 '23

My voice becomes one with the choir as I say wholeheartedly,

fuck /u/spez

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u/LN0GJMP Jun 09 '23

Sure but where will the userbase migrate? I've seen several threads where everyone complains but refuse to use alternatives like Lemmy. Learned helplessness is killer

442

u/[deleted] Jun 09 '23

I’ve been on Reddit for 13 years. I’m just going to delete my account and go outside and play.

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u/[deleted] Jun 09 '23

[deleted]

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u/FC37 Jun 09 '23

I don't know that my usage will drop to 0, but it'll decrease by 90% easily.

208

u/Mechakoopa Jun 09 '23

Yeah they're losing my mobile time with this, they'll lose my desktop time when they get rid of old.reddit

66

u/odaal Jun 09 '23

Oh fuck. Old reddits head is next on the chopping block.

54

u/SupahSpankeh Jun 09 '23

I use old on my mobile. Idgaf about apps, old with Firefox and Ublock and NextDNS has been my Reddit experience for years. I won't stick around when it goes. The "new" Reddit UI wastes so much screen space and loads so badly.

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u/Habba Jun 09 '23

I removed reddit from my phone about 2 years ago because I was spending too much time mindlessly scrolling it. Can recommend it, made me a happier person.

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u/keving216 Jun 09 '23

Same. 12 years here. I’ll be out.

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u/angiosperms- Jun 09 '23

I've seen plenty of people ready to move or who have already started using alternatives. There's also a lot of people who just straight up don't want to spend time on social media anymore and are using this as a kick to stop wasting a bunch of time on reddit or any alternative

We don't need to proactively vote on an alternative, it will happen organically

109

u/ErraticDragon Jun 09 '23

True, some of it will happen organically. But it will be slow.

The Digg -> Reddit migration was huge. Of course, Reddit was already good and growing, which is why it was a viable replacement in the first place. And in a network effect 'virtuous cycle', every new Redditor made Reddit more attractive and Digg less attractive, with the end result being a dramatic shift.

I really wish there was a similar drop-in replacement for us now. I don't think Reddit can or will really die until there's a replacement, meaning that some very large percentage of people will stay, meaning it will probably keep growing, and users will keep generating content here. Making it harder to completely boycott even for those who want to.

Yes, obviously, we can choose to leave and/or boycott and our lives will go on. But there is still value in the "Reddit experience" or "Reddit community" that won't be easy to replace. (It's still often worth adding "Reddit" to your search terms, for example.)

187

u/TechnoVikingrr Jun 09 '23

Bro, Apollo is shutting down because they have the user count to cause them to be expected to pay millions.

Subs are going dark in protest

RIF is shutting down too

This absolutely will cause a substantial drop in this site's usage.

Elon Musk's shitty management of Twitter is apparently inspirational to spez.

The only way this site's usage doesn't drop is if spez sees sense and does a 180 from this bullshit.

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u/timeshifter_ Jun 09 '23

I fear it's too late for that. Reddit has not simply stated terms in bad faith, but then immediately tried to blame the victims when the entire platform rose up in support against them. Say Reddit does do a complete 180 and gives up the entire API pricing change entirely.

Then what?

Does anybody actually believe that's the end of it? That everything goes back to normal forever, and we all used third-party clients happily ever after? No, they've played their hand. They will destroy third-party apps one way or another. So why would any dev stick with them, knowing with 100% certainty that they're going to get fucked over?

No, it's over. Either Reddit takes massive steps in fixing their own app, or they watch mobile usage absolutely tank. If their own app was actually worth using, third-party apps wouldn't even be an issue. This is the fact that seems to be completely lost on them.

Not to mention all of the moderation tools provided by third-parties that Reddit themselves simply refuse to offer. In this one action, Reddit has committed to destroying not only a massive chunk of their mobile user base, but also virtually the entire volunteer moderation community, which is the only thing that maintains any semblance of focused discussion. This is quite possibly the single worst course of action Reddit could have taken, and they went all-in on it.

No, I think it's over. Been a fun ride y'all, but Reddit just signed its own death certificate. Hope to see you all on the next wave...

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u/blindsight Jun 09 '23 edited Jun 09 '23

This comment deleted to protest Reddit's API change (to reduce the value of Reddit's data).

Please see these threads for details.

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u/Paridae_Purveyor Jun 09 '23

A huge factor for me is that I literally refuse to browse reddit on the official app or on the new website. It's not a boycott in the traditional sense of me making a decision of morals. It's purely a practical thing, what I'm using is going away so I won't use it anymore. It's totally different than Twitter where many people said they would quit but didn't, because that isn't a functional change it's just moral a decision.

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u/Gangsir Jun 09 '23

I've seen a site die before, it usually just explodes the "community" to the wind, only to settle in various random places. Who knows what will "replace" reddit as the "reddit-like" site, but it's not the end of the world or a big deal. People just move on, like they moved on when myspace died, etc.

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u/Lord_of_hosts Jun 09 '23

I'm planning to migrate to Kindle books on my phone. I suspect, like me, a lot of people will just quit.

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u/Lostcreek3 Jun 09 '23

Specific forums, a lot less shit posting and no karma farming. There are still idiots, there will always be idiots

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u/IsilZha Jun 09 '23

Read further. That actually happened in a prior call at the end of May. It was immediately addressed and reddit acknowledged the misunderstanding and apologized for it. They already had that conversation and knew it wasn't a threat. Spez repeating it today was intentional malice.

Unfortunately for them, the Apollo dev recorded all the calls, and in his big post already brought the receipts.

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u/Toast42 Jun 09 '23 edited Jul 05 '23

So long and thanks for all the fish

216

u/SempereII Jun 09 '23

At this point anyone who has invested in Reddit should be concerned about their investment pre-IPO if their CEO is willing to open the company up to defamation and lawsuits via a smear campaign.

The intention is clear: they want Apollo and all 3PA to die via absurd pricing - but they went a step further to harm the dev’s reputation with malice.

He should lawyer up and go for a lot more than 10M. And Reddit’s private investors should meet about sacking spez and the rest of the cancer at the top of the site that are making reckless business decisions that will harm their bottom line.

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u/hbt15 Jun 09 '23

That would be amazing if he did - backlash over changes plus a pending lawsuit for defamation etc. it would be a real nice start for investors to see just what they’re getting themselves into.

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u/the_lost_carrot Jun 09 '23

Not to mention fidelity recently dropped reddits valuation by 41%. This huge push forward to get rid of third party apps screams of despiration.

To somehow show that Reddit is worth more. I have a feeling what they are actually going to find is that they are not. The majority of work that goes into Reddit is from volunteers.

Additionally without third party apps it is going to tank a lot of reddits traffic. That will make selling premium ad space much harder.

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u/LitesoBrite Jun 09 '23

Now we have the driving factor behind this malice.

Their valuation plunged 41%, so they’re desperate to fake numbers.

And they will lie like hell to get their way.

Hopefully this tanks them another 41% this month.

This funny claim that nobody important uses these third party apps whichsimultaneously are such massive traffic that reddit must cut them down immediately or charge insane prices for their access doesn’t hold up.

They’re lying.

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u/marr Jun 09 '23

This should absolutely be punished by the market. Punished by regulation would also be nice but you gotta build with the tools you have.

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u/SempereII Jun 09 '23

If I were an investor, I’d be fucking furious right now that the admins have used their official positions to defame an app developer. It’s not as simple as kicking Spez out with all the blame when they’ve had other admins make similar damaging comments about the Apollo app with the clear intent of harming the brand and reputation of the developer.

So instead of buying the app to bury it, they’ve opened themselves up to a clear cut lawsuit.

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u/kazza789 Jun 09 '23

When I read the article, it was legitimately hard for me to understand how Reddit's execs could have even interpreted those comments as "extortion." I still don't understand how someone's mind can jump to that from the comments that were made.

Yeah - the idea of acquiring a downstream service is incredibly normal in the world of business. I can't understand at all how they would think of that discussion topic as making a threat.

And then, in context as well, it was clear what was being said. They were saying "your pricing suggests that Apollo is worth $20M. If that's true, then shouldn't you be willing to buy it for $10M?". Where the implication was obviously that they're not going to buy it for $10M and therefore the pricing is ridiculous.

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u/[deleted] Jun 09 '23

[deleted]

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u/raudoniolika Jun 09 '23

u/iamthatis creating a Reddit 2.0, probably, or stealing all of u/spez karma. Although it seems to me that that delusional prick took it as “I’ll shut up if you give me money” which tells you a lot about the mindset that Reddit’s leadership is currently in

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u/_invalidusername Jun 09 '23

And Christian basically said that he could make it work if he had enough time, by increasing monthly subscription and slowly onboarding the existing users as their current subscriptions expire.

So Reddit could have bought him out and instantly had a profitable addition to their platform

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u/Spekingur Jun 09 '23

Projection

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u/ubermoo2010 Jun 09 '23

Maybe, It looks much more like gaslighting to me.

Reddit is extorting Apollo and all api users and then turns around and tries to verbal one of the people they are extorting, only to be called out immediately, very publicly and provably full of bullshit. Morons.

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u/go_ninja_go Jun 09 '23

Honestly, when I read the transcript, I could see how the reddit rep initially misinterpreted it. The dev clarified though and the rep immediately apologized. To me, it sounds like reddit recorded the call as well and is grasping at anything to twist the narrative.

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u/beka13 Jun 09 '23

Yeah, the apollo dev said "go quiet", the reddit person heard "go away". It was immediately clarified and the reddit person apologized for the mistake.

What I don't get is how that got turned into an accusation of extortion. The best spin is some sort of telephone game about that misunderstanding but it might just be good old character assassination. I dunno.

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u/tsammons Jun 09 '23

They also sent out market research to advertisers, 15 minute questionnaire (more like 25) for a $100 Amazon gift card. That was mid April; nothing received. I don't see Reddit doing the right thing anymore at this time unless it's aligned with maximizing their short-term IPO valuation.

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u/laetus Jun 09 '23

They also sent out market research to advertisers, 15 minute questionnaire (more like 25) for a $100 Amazon gift card. That was mid April; nothing received.

Report them to the FTC?

https://reportfraud.ftc.gov/#/

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u/cat_prophecy Jun 09 '23

If Apollo is “coded poorly” what does that say about the dumpster fire that is the official app? Jesus Christ these people have some fucking cheek.

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u/JohnJohnston Jun 09 '23

It is amazing the size of stones people will throw while living in glass houses.

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u/marr Jun 09 '23

The biggest gorillas always believe the 'too big to fail' story

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u/[deleted] Jun 09 '23 edited Jul 10 '23

special sulky melodic crawl fade touch jar sugar boast berserk -- mass edited with redact.dev

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u/Theemuts Jun 09 '23

The admins are obviously making shit up as they go. They know the modern app and website are a dumpster fire. They don't care, all they care about now is how much money they'll earn.

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u/[deleted] Jun 09 '23

I think it's the API that's poorly optimised - forcing apps to code "poorly" and make 10x more requests than any other platform - it's not poor, because it's only way to get shit to work

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u/vermin1000 Jun 09 '23

Yeah, isn't there database also very strange, like every item has a table for thing and a table for data. I just remember it sounding very strange.

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u/cryonine Jun 09 '23

The sad thing is that the “official” app was one of the best Reddit apps for a long time before Reddit bought it because they couldn’t pull off their own app. They then turned it to shit.

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u/GarbageTheCan Jun 09 '23

The old corporate catch and kill competition method

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u/TipProfessional6057 Jun 09 '23

Rip Alien Blue, my first love

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u/Toast42 Jun 09 '23 edited Jul 05 '23

So long and thanks for all the fish

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u/ForShotgun Jun 09 '23

Inefficiency lmao, have they seen their own app? Feels like an awkward piece of shit compared to Apollo. Also they could have just discussed it if they really cared about API efficiency, but we all know they just want to monetize to IPO, as soon as possible and they don't care if they have to burn the site down to do it. AMA's are already worthless, how did that monetization go? Because that's what this shitshow is going to look like

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u/LiberContrarion Jun 09 '23

Feels like an awkward piece of shit compared to Apollo.

Not just feels like -- is.

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u/--xx Jun 09 '23

i used the official app for 2minutes and I found a bug.

The touch area for the “Home” drop-down at the top is the entire button, until u visit a subreddit. now u can only trigger the drop-down via the tiny little arrow.

that’s within two minutes playing around w the official app… wtf is this spaghetti code

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u/absentmindedjwc Jun 09 '23

From recordings Apollo dev has of calls with Reddit execs, the reason wasn't API efficiency, they want to be able to flood people with stupid He Gets Us ads.

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u/Spitfire1900 Jun 09 '23

From the interview with snazzy labs, Christian mentioned that the APIs for ads aren’t even available if Apollo wanted to add them. on top of that a number of third-party apps reached out to Reddit about making it available in order to avoid all this.

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u/Inquisitive_idiot Jun 09 '23

Yeah when I read that the dude “had the receipts” my interest was peaked 🤨…

… and then he started stating that Canada is one-party consent…

…and was like 😮 🤡 this gonna be good 😈

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u/rhazux Jun 09 '23

The word you're looking for is piqued, not peaked.

Damn, in a month people won't be able to learn new words as easily. Truly the end of an era.

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u/Starslip Jun 09 '23

And from data he pulled of the official app's API requests, reddit sure as fuck has no place to talk about efficiency anyway. 156 api calls in 3 minutes of usage of the official app and they want to blame apollo for being inefficient? fuck outta here

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u/Trolann Jun 09 '23

They privately said they wanted to monetize opportunity cost, not server costs (per Apollo). Then they openly bash the efficiency and basically say everything (except NSFW) should get cached externally.

Ridiculous.

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u/IsilZha Jun 09 '23

but we all know they just want to monetize to IPO

yes, but not from the API. With those prices they clearly just wanted 3rd party apps to go away. Then they'll give exceptions to the ones they want to allow.. which they already have.

The outright lies and dishonest tactics only validate that any "negotiations" with the TPA devs was entirely in bad faith, as their real goal was to push them out.

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u/mobileuseratwork Jun 09 '23

Yep.

Some MBA clown would have sat down and tried to fudge the numbers to make them look way better than they are

"Oh if you clowns somehow move all the 3rd party API traffic into the official app, then the advertising and user data tracking revenue will go up by 20% and make the company another $1billion". So just turn that off somehow and you will get 100% of those users

Um fucking no.

Content creator %s will drop.

Moderation quality will drop, causing subreddits to expire and user participation will drop

Repost, scam, tshirt sellers, spammers and banned user posts will skyrocket exponentially. User participation will drop off a cliff.

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u/iSamurai Jun 09 '23

Content creator %s will drop.

I think people are missing this part. Think about a place like /r/AskHistorians … I’m sure many of them use third party apps. I don’t think a lot of users are thinking about subs like this. Only defaults like /r/pics (which obviously will be fine).

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u/moeb1us Jun 09 '23

Apparently Apollo dev did the math and asked them to just buy the 3rd party apps like they did with Alien Blue, but the response made quite clear what their real intentions are

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u/hello_dali Jun 09 '23

not will drop, already is. And Reddit just recently fired a bunch of people as well.

I've gotten 3 pornbot followers this week, having never had a single one before this and I've been using Reddit for 15 years (13 on this account).

So many hobby communities and funny niche subs about to be gone for good unless archivers are getting busy.

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u/Xanza Jun 09 '23

Don't worry /u/spez It's going to be really easy to afford the bills when everybody stops fucking using Reddit because you guys are turning into a bunch of money hungry fucks that forget where you came from.

✌️✌️✌️

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u/absentmindedjwc Jun 09 '23

Spez doesn't care, he just wants to cash out in the IPO.

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u/Charles_Stover Jun 09 '23

I don't blame him, but this isn't the way. Third party apps provided more value than cost. They are penny pinching pre-IPO in a flawed attempt to maximize profits. They lost sight of what made Reddit valuable in the first place.

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u/msg_me_about_ure_day Jun 09 '23 edited Jun 09 '23

i worked for a US tech "giant" during the time they merged part of their company with another. the penny pinching was absurd. people resigned all over the place, eventually i was left doing the work that previously had a team of 3 doing it, i was oncall 24/7, my office hours was 1pm to 3am, and then they decided to remove all the coffee machines and put in new ones where you had to pay for the coffee.

i handed in my 2 week notice 2 days later and made sure they knew why. they decided to save on fucking coffee. how much money will that even save them? i quit working in software development/back end stuff not long after. i enjoyed the work itself but the people i worked with and worked for was just disappointing experience after experience.

went into ecom management instead, way more people focused but still somewhat techy, also after a few years of it i also ended up making way more $$$, even if that wasnt the original idea.

edit:

ill risk semi-doxing myself by actually naming the company because fuck em. it was hewlett packard enterprise.

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u/monzelle612 Jun 09 '23

Pay coffee at work?!? Jesus christ HP

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u/qdatk Jun 09 '23

I don't get why he doesn't just cash out in the IPO without making a dumpster fire first. Surely a website where the entire userbase isn't in revolt would be worth more?

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u/unnecessary_kindness Jun 09 '23

I highly doubt the ipo will go ahead anyway, but supposing that it does, the point of the API costs is to become more profitable for the listing.

  1. Either third party apps play ball and now Reddit has a new revenue stream or

  2. Third party apps drop out and Reddit increases the concentration of users on its official (hint - ad revenue generating) app as well as significantly reducing its cost base (API calls aren't free afterall).

Both of those scenarios in the *short term* is good for the listing price. The idiots investing in Reddit shares (i.e. buying out spez and the team) will be the ones suffering the longer term consequences of these short sighted moves.

Why would spez care about them?

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u/0x1f606 Jun 09 '23

Shoutout to the git commit message of "things".

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u/Artillect Jun 09 '23

I'm a big fan of "reduce account updates" followed immediately by "but for real this time" lol

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u/XoXFaby Jun 09 '23

I've definitely done this.

"fixed thing"
"actually fixed thing"
"actually actually fixed thing for real this time"

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u/TouristNo4039 Jun 09 '23

Git rebase -i HEAD~3 and squash

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u/[deleted] Jun 09 '23

More like

  • fix the thing
  • fix the thing
  • fix the thing
  • finally fix the thing

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u/XoXFaby Jun 09 '23

my favorite set of commits is still this

https://faby.dev/images/JIV8cB.png

070df3e    fixed a
6b299ea    fixed d

I had accidentally added an "a" to the code. Then when removing it, accidentally added a "d", lol

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u/[deleted] Jun 09 '23

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u/boobsbr Jun 09 '23

What kind of monster orders their commits by date ASC?

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u/mowdownjoe Jun 09 '23

I doubt that's something Randall actually does, but it helps the punchline land in this instance.

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u/Gaazoh Jun 09 '23

Especially as he has a large audience, including a majority of non-programmers

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u/Mxfrj Jun 09 '23

That’s actually Reddit terminology

http://highscalability.com/blog/2010/5/17/7-lessons-learned-while-building-reddit-to-270-million-page.html

… they keep a Thing Table and a Data Table. Everything in Reddit is a Thing: users, links, comments, subreddits, awards, etc. Things keep common attribute like up/down votes, a type, and creation date. The Data table has three columns: thing id, key, value...

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u/Neocrasher Jun 09 '23

Man, if only programming had an existing term to describe objects...

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u/noobsc2 Jun 09 '23
b585906 "did thing"
385d06 "fix thing"
af59f6 "thing working now"
c585e06 "fix thing"
b5f90a "thing really working this time"
b5a59d6 "disable thing"
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u/redcoatwright Jun 09 '23

They know what they're doing, 100% they want to kill off 3rd party apps to get add revenue and user data.

The reason they won't reverse the decision is this is the intended outcome and honestly they don't care if a couple 100k people leave reddit over it.

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u/useablelobster2 Jun 09 '23

It's more a question of who this forces to leave, and what they bring to the website.

Getting rid of third party apps is selecting for the older and most invested users. We have been here for years, and we clearly shopped around for the best experience. All they are going to be left with is the new users.

Imagine the eternal September, but instead of just lots of new people joining, all the grey hairs piss off for greener pastures at the same time.

This website is DEAD.

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u/Xarthys Jun 09 '23

It won't matter much imho, because most of the content in popular (aka profitable) subs is already bot-driven reposts, with very little OC.

So from a casual user's perspective, not much would change, as most people just read the feeds, where all the ads are anyways.

The lack of quality content might be more visible when diving into comments, but even then that can be easily masked by reddit deploying their own ChatGPT-supported bot army to keep things interesting.

At the end of the day, it probably won't even make a dent, as any humans providing quality content will be replaced by some automated content generation. And most users being here for the rage bait and all that probably won't even notice?

It's the smaller communities who will suffer the most imho, especially tech focused, because those have the most power users.

Moderation, including spam/scam could become a bigger issue though, however maybe reddit already has volunteers waiting to take open positions, once the old brigade has either deleted their accounts or been replaced after going dark too long.

Admins can take over any sub at any point, so it wouldn't suprise me either if communities go back to normal, simply because those who made them private no longer are in control.

My point being that reddit is going to change drastically, giving much more control to site admins over basically every aspect, including what type of content is going to be around.

We will probably see much more censorship and sanitation attempts, combined with major SFW ad-friendly spaces that will be mostly reddit's internal bot network curating content aggressively to create the desired engagement and metrics.

Everything that is being done now is about making profits. You can't really control millions of humans, but you can do so with millions of bots.

Wild thoughts, I know, but I do believe reddit wants to turn into a dedicated money printer, and the only way to achieve this is to change the entire platform, including the way content is being generated.

I think we are about to witness a major transition from news aggregation/discussion to fully automated content farm.

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u/[deleted] Jun 09 '23

Condensed version:

It doesn't matter because Reddit has become a container for reposted TikTok content.

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u/squatch_watcher Jun 09 '23

Might not be a ton of people, but the ones that bounce are gonna be the ones that mod /r/Seahawks, /r/Vinyl, /r/mechanicalkeyboards and countless other communities from sports to nerd shit. And for real if they go public all the NSFW subs are gonna get banned and that’s a fuck ton of people that won’t ever use Reddit again.

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u/dacjames Jun 09 '23

Instead of making up technical bullshit, what Reddit should do is structure their API access deals as a profit sharing agreement where third party apps like Apollo pay Reddit a percentage of their ad revenue after some threshold.

I think reddit has the right to monetize the site however they want, which they can't do with third party apps. They want 100% of that revenue but what they don't realize is that a large percentage of users will quit before they switch off their preferred app. It would be better to capture 30% of those users than to jeopardize the entire site trying to cut out the developers who acquired many of these users in the first place.

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u/Toast42 Jun 09 '23 edited Jul 05 '23

So long and thanks for all the fish

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u/mgrandi Jun 09 '23

What are you referring to re Tesla?

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u/Inquisitive_idiot Jun 09 '23

Yeah… ”Fool me once…”

Who in Sam Hill over there thought kicking developers to the curve through attrition - after Twitter just self-emollated themselves in public a few months ago doing the same damn thing - wouldn’t be noticed for what it was.

Instead of lying / misrepresentation / trying to kick developers out through attrition, they should have been straight with folks and said we’re cutting everyone off and licked their wounds.

And if they intended to keep the api access, make it palatable to both 3rd party developers looking for modern integrations and investors looking for user data mining and monetization.

Instead what they achieved is to insult absolutely everybody.

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u/UnreasonableSteve Jun 09 '23

kicking developers to the curve

to the curb

Twitter just self-emollated themselves

They either immolated themselves, or they self-immolated.

Not that I disagree with your points, just letting you know

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u/cedear Jun 09 '23

All spez and other stockholders care about at this point is getting the IPO money so they can bail.

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u/Charles_Stover Jun 09 '23

It should simply be a ToS agreement to display Reddit's ads alongside the user posts. That provides roughly the same cost to value ratio as the website itself.

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u/scrndude Jun 09 '23

I think their API doesn’t serve ads so it’s impossible to integrate Reddit’s adds into 3rd party apps unless they revamp their API

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u/one-joule Jun 09 '23

That's what they would do if they wanted to. They don't.

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u/aksdb Jun 09 '23

If this really was about revenue lost due to apps not displaying ads, they could have locked API access behind Reddit Premium. That would have still affected the user base, but with far less impact and in a far more comprehensible way.

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u/EshuMarneedi Jun 09 '23

While they wax poetic bullshit about how "inefficient" Apollo is, let's just admire how absolutely abysmal their official app is. It's slow, it doesn't work right half the time, and it's a terrible user experience. Why don't they fix that? Oh right, it's because they're so focused on putting a shitton of ads and trackers in it to sell user data and make maximum profit. "But that's business, not inefficiency!"

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u/appleparkfive Jun 09 '23

They think they can just do whatever they want, obviously. That people will stick around no matter what. They see people like Netflix pulling shit and people sticking around.

But there's one problem there. The content on Netflix is media that is delivered to the user. For Reddit, the content IS the user's input. We all make the content.

I'm really curious to see if this is going to be a Digg rehash, where another site comes along and just takes over. If there's a similar site that has a good ToS against things like hate speech (so it doesn't turn into a Voat kind of place), it could very well attract a ton of people away from Reddit.

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u/WolfgangSho Jun 09 '23

I'm calling it now:

u/spez will be the sacrificial lamb.

They will walk back a bit of the API changes to seem open-minded, enough to confuse the matter and dilute the rioting.

Nothing will actually get better.

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u/Satans_Oregano Jun 09 '23

Exactly what I'm thinking. They intend to roll something else out. They'll roll back the predatory pricing in favor of something less shitty which is probably what they intended in the first place. Bargaining 101.

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u/Binormus__ Jun 09 '23

Hey u/spez, fuck you, you piece of shit

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u/[deleted] Jun 09 '23

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u/KE7CKI Jun 09 '23

All my homies hate /u/spez

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u/PirateCraig Jun 09 '23 edited Jun 09 '23

Well after 12 years on Reddit. I’m out after the 30th June. It’s not even the same site anymore so it’s a good time to go

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u/moeb1us Jun 09 '23

Same. I'm a bit sad though. It was a good run.

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u/Chewcocca Jun 09 '23

It was certainly a run.

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u/sinatosk Jun 09 '23

What alternatives are there if you plan to still visit sites like Reddit?

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u/[deleted] Jun 09 '23

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u/Monthly_Vent Jun 09 '23

I would love forums to have a comeback. A lot of these alternatives are nice, but I still feel lonely when I don’t feel like talking about the very niche interest accumulated in that particular reddit alternative. I guess, kind of want more diversity than programming and politics.

And I don’t feel comfortable with most other social media platforms cause following users scares the shit out of me and 4chan… not touching that…

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u/goatchild Jun 09 '23

Lemmy? Although It seems a bit confusing to use. I need to check it out again.

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u/Downvotes_are_Grreat Jun 09 '23

Hey u/Spez, can we get Ellen Pao back plz? She was shit as a CEO, but she was better than you.

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u/[deleted] Jun 09 '23 edited Jun 09 '23

Didn't it come out that the Reddit admins kn0thing and spez forced her to be the fall guy and she didn't actually do anything that she was accused of?

Edit:

On July 2, 2015, Reddit fired communications director Victoria Taylor, an administrator who coordinated celebrity interviews from Reddit's New York office. In protest, volunteer moderators of the IAmA community set their forum to private, effectively turning it off, and other volunteer moderators followed suit because of "anger at the way the company routinely demands that the volunteers and community accept major changes that reduce [their] efficiency and increase [their] workload".[40] The following day, a moderator of IAmA posted that "Chooter (Victoria) was let go as an admin by u/kn0thing [Alexis Ohanian]",[41] an assertion that was not widely reported on.[42] Media outlets such as Variety blamed interim CEO Ellen Pao for the dismissal. Harassment, which was already being directed toward Pao in relation to other controversies, intensified and she resigned a week later.[43] However, on July 12, former CEO Yishan Wong informed the Reddit community that Taylor was fired by "the CEO's boss" and accused Ohanian of scapegoating.[42]

https://www.reddit.com/r/OutOfTheLoop/comments/mco7b9/what_is_the_deal_with_ellen_pao/gs4uy2h/

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u/Icyrow Jun 09 '23

yeah, it was an incredibly smug post at that made by him sorta telling the story.

he came across like a bit of a cunt.

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u/Starslip Jun 09 '23

"popcorn tastes good" I believe?

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u/Crap4Brainz Jun 09 '23

She was only hired so they could fire her. The founders made a plan that they knew would be unpopular, hired a woman to execute it so they could call critics misogynist, then fired her as a scapegoat while keeping the policy changes.

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u/TheGruesomeTwosome Jun 09 '23

If reddit gave a single fuck about their user experience they would've thrown a bag at the one guy who's proven time and time again he's on the front lines in listening to user feedback and actually delivering what people want.

They're too shallow to admit he's better and to get him on side, so instead have tried burning him to the ground. Fuck you u/spez.

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u/shadowzzz Jun 09 '23

And now Reddit will borrow this code without credit to finally make their app work.

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u/moeb1us Jun 09 '23

They already have the bought codebase of Alien Blue which was light years better than their vanilla app. But they are deliberately not using it because reasons. All good intentions of course. No greed at all.

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u/Deon555 Jun 09 '23

Bought Alien Blue, ran it into the fucking ground, discontinued it

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u/iamiamwhoami Jun 09 '23

Looking at the code it's not actually the app. It's the backend server that sits between the app and the Reddit API.

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u/korolev_cross Jun 09 '23

I don't see a license file which means the default all rights reserved applies

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u/[deleted] Jun 09 '23

lol fuck /u/spez so much. Lies about apollo dev blackmailing/extorting whatever, then makes this claim about shit code when the official reddit mobile app and the desktop frontend (the not "old" one) runs like absolute shit. What an absolute fucking cunt.

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u/-MinorWomensWhiplash Jun 09 '23

Well the number 1 post on All about spez being a little pigboy just got deleted

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u/hyperchromatica Jun 09 '23

This is just gonna make me use Lemmy instead.

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u/floghdraki Jun 09 '23

I've been thinking about federated reddit. Nice to see someone execute on it.

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u/Mr-Fleshcage Jun 09 '23

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u/_illogical_ Jun 09 '23

Important quote:

I say this because this new version of digg reeks of VC meddling. It's cobbling together features from more popular sites and departing from the core of digg, which was to "give the power back to the people."

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u/[deleted] Jun 09 '23 edited Jul 13 '23

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u/ZucchiniMore3450 Jun 09 '23 edited Jun 09 '23

This is the best protest we can do, just remove our contribution and let them be.

Edit: open source option: https://github.com/j0be/PowerDeleteSuite

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u/[deleted] Jun 09 '23

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u/[deleted] Jun 09 '23

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u/NucleativeCereal Jun 09 '23

I sure hope there are some stable archives somewhere before everyone nukes out.

A lot of old threads are useful for troubleshooting technical issues and for getting a feel for the opinions on various matters at particular times.

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u/strobe_jams Jun 09 '23

While this is concerns back-end code quality, just comparing Reddits in-house front end UX and UI vs Apollo’s tells me Reddit’s engineering capability hasn’t evolved in over a decade.

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u/[deleted] Jun 09 '23

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u/LarsSnareMaster3000 Jun 09 '23

I think it's pretty funny that reddit is claiming that appollo is poorly programmed and unoptimised when their app isn't even functioning properly and they can't even be bothered to compress images and videos to dave data usage, make a functional videoplayer, load comments in under 30seconds etc.

Here's a great video showing just how bad the official reddit app handles videos and images

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u/retroly Jun 09 '23

Reddit is just a collection of links and comments generated by users and moderated by users.

Reddit does nothing that can't be done by someone else as long they have the user base to create content.

Reddit actually offers very little, if the user leave thye have nothing, no value. They really are fucking idiots.

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u/PixelSpy Jun 09 '23

I 100% vote for Apolo creator to make a direct competitor app to reddit. They're clearly more competent than current reddit admins.

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u/xiaorobear Jun 09 '23

He said he's not interested, very understandably:

"I've received so many messages of kind people offering to work with me to build a competitor to Reddit, and while I'm very flattered, that's not something I'm interested in doing. I'm a product guy, I like building fun apps for people to use, and I'm just not personally interested in something more managerial.

These last several months have also been incredibly exhausting and mentally draining, I don't have it in me to engage in something so enormous."

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