r/technology 5d ago Helpful 3 Wholesome 1

Juul's e-cigarettes could be banned from sale in the US | The FDA is set to announce the move imminently, according to The Wall Street Journal. Society

https://www.engadget.com/juul-ban-vape-pen-fda-report-183333084.html
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u/BrendyNew 5d ago Evil Cackle

There goes half of Reddits advertising budget

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u/lexaproquestions 5d ago

I see that ad for a certain brand of alcohol infused tea on my feed multiple times a day. I don't drink, and if I did, I'd go out of my way not to buy it for exactly that reason.

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u/16blacka 5d ago edited 5d ago Gold Platinum Take My Energy Ally

I’m a recovering alcoholic. The algorithm knows this and constantly showers me with liquor ads. It’s evil

Edit: I really appreciate all the people who reached out about this. I will spread what I’ve learned from you all to my peers. <3

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u/davisty69 5d ago edited 5d ago

Assuming you're on mobile, switch to a different Reddit app. Most don't have ads and are far better, such as relay in Android.

Edit: apparently relay does have ads. I purchased the pro version for a $1 or so a couple years ago. Not sure the cost now. Well worth it.

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u/16blacka 5d ago

Thank you for the tip!

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u/precident 5d ago

Apollo is my app of choice on iOS, I think it cost me 2.99 for no ads forever when I bought it back a few years back, not vouching for any of the cost now, but I literally abstain from the Reddit app due to its targeted marketing on ads.

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u/amidon1130 5d ago

Is the free version adless too? I can’t remember because I decided to throw them a few bucks a few years back and haven’t regretted it since.

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u/MPEGabriel 5d ago

The free version is ad-less but you do have to pay for stuff like notifications, but luckily there’s a one-time fee option instead of a subscription which imo makes it worth it

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u/amidon1130 5d ago

It's great, super clean UI and the updates actually make it better and not worse.

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u/ADHDK 5d ago

Honesty why is the official reddit app full of ads when they can’t even manage to make videos play with sound, but third party apps can?

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u/adesimo1 5d ago

Same! I’ve been getting a ton of captain Morgan and twisted tea ads these last few weeks. I subscribe to some sober/recovery subreddits…you’d think they can do something about that and not force feed me alcohol ads.

I’m comfortable enough in my sobriety to handle it, but the next redditor may not be.

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u/ThePowderhorn 5d ago

you’d think they can do something about that and not force feed me alcohol ads.

As someone rather new to sobriety, this provides another unknown benefit of pihole and adblockers for Firefox.

But I digress. Advertising has no morality taken into account. If the point of buying an ad is to target the group most likely to repeatedly purchase your product in a short timespan (gotta hit quarterly targets), active alcoholics are your first choice. People in recovery are, sadly, Nr. 2.

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u/lexaproquestions 5d ago

Good for you for quitting. I stopped drinking almost 2 years ago. I don't know if I was an alcoholic, but I know that I'm not the kind of person who can just have an occasional glass of wine or a beer. I hit my mid 40s and it was just too much to sustain. So I decided that stopping was best. I miss it sometimes, even now, but I'm glad I quit, and I'm glad you did, too. Keep it up!

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u/16blacka 5d ago

Thanks! And good on you for realizing that it was too much for you. I work as an addiction counselor now, and you might be surprised how difficult of a task that is for most people! Keep living the good life friend

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u/apathy420 5d ago

Heya! I quit drinking a bit over 6 years ago and after treatment had thought about going into addiction counseling. How did you go about doing that? I have a MS in human resources if that helps

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u/Roygbiv856 5d ago

Sounds like you need an adblocker

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u/PlNG 5d ago

PSA: Firefox mobile has access to add-ons including uBlock Origin.

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u/Roygbiv856 5d ago

I literally switched to the firefox app on my phone a couple days ago for this very reason.

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u/DopeBoogie 5d ago

Why would you use the browser when there are plenty of great Reddit apps available?

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u/davisty69 5d ago

Exactly. There are no ads on relay

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u/Jolopy00 5d ago

Apollo is a great option with no ads as well.

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u/HappenFrank 5d ago

Not on iOS tho right?

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u/sipoloco 5d ago

I see that ad

Sounds awful.

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u/RamenJunkie 5d ago

Reddit has ads???

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u/Ok_Tennis_7587 5d ago

Other than the blatant shill posts made, I never see any ads on the site period

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u/thedankening 5d ago

If you don't filter out most of the larger default subs, I think it's pretty obvious a large number of the posts are just thinly veiled advertising. A couple years back there was the infamous video of the dominoes delivery guy doing some weird dance or something as requested in the delivery instructions. Besides being extremely cringe (dance for your tips, peasant!) it was pretty blatant marketing for dominoes.

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u/cumquistador6969 5d ago

Some of the smaller specialist subs get weirdly filled with it too.

I haven't checked lately, but a while back /r/webdev was like 80% veiled advertisements or direct advertisements just being posted.

Usually hidden as some kind of essay or tutorial, but the problem being showcased just coincidentally happens to be something the writer is selling a product to fix what a coincidence.

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u/Darwins_Dog 5d ago

Do you vape? I never have and I've never seen a single ad for Juul. Most of what I see is software ads.

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u/Other_World 5d ago

You guys see ads?

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u/mrblue6 5d ago

I vape and very often search vape stuff on google. Literally never ever seen a Juul ad

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u/PotatoeswithaTopHat 5d ago

Same here. Juul is like the Cheyennes of vaping imo. So many better options.

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u/mrblue6 5d ago

I liked the mango flavour but since that got banned, There’s no reason to get a Juul

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u/[deleted] 5d ago

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u/PotatoeswithaTopHat 5d ago

I more or less stick to pachamama salts, never really liked the tobacco flavors, butttttt, if you live near a shop that makes their own juice, I have tried a few tobacco flavors that weren't just diabetes in a cloud. I noticed in-house juices tended to be less sweet than the box brand juices. Your best 2nd option is homebrew. I see a lot of folks have better luck looking for a flavor when they do it themselves. I tried my hand at it years ago, so it's probably better and easier now

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u/Proskater789 5d ago

Mines been car ads. I wonder what the ages of the audience that see the juul ads is. I'm sure it's younger than it should be.

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u/ticklechickens 5d ago

I see a lot of car ads and no juul ads and I am old af and like cars. I see a lot of curved penis ads, and I do not have a penis.

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u/PinniPie 5d ago

I see ads for straightening out a curved penis as well and I also don’t have one. I also see the same recurring Captain Morgan ad and I don’t drink alcohol. Have never seen a Juul one though.

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u/sikagoon7 5d ago

So odd you and the woman below get penis straightening ads. There gotta be some deep psycho reason why women are targeted with them.

Maybe dudes never pay it any mind until their wives mention it to them to straighten their penis out? In that case advertising to women would be best.

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u/TaborlinTheGrape 5d ago

I get tons of military ads, which is funny because I hate the military, and I have like 8 different things that would disqualify me from serving.

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u/FixedLoad 5d ago

I've been getting this ad for a shot to control schizophrenic outbursts. I don't THINK I'm schizophrenic but I'm starting to suspect they know something I dont...

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u/monsieurpommefrites 5d ago

Mine are those Swiss suicide pods.

They're having a promo where if I sign up before September I get processed for free.

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u/forests-of-purgatory 5d ago

I dont get juul ads but I get a very very small selection as well. Like. Only 2-3 companies

Edit: Spelling

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u/mwaaahfunny 5d ago Helpful

Somebody didn't have enough money to buy senators and congressional delegates.

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u/IHeartBadCode 5d ago Gold Helpful

Well mostly this comes down to JUUL not really cooperating with the FDA's investigation. NJOY was cleared by the FDA for sale in the United States. JUUL was asked to submit material back in 2020 and just noped out of doing any of that.

So JUUL has given the FDA very little choice on what to do going forward. And this ban will more than likely be a blanket ban for the product meaning JUUL will get the option to appeal the ban in court. Which might be where they want to go to argue the case for the mint/tobacco only limitation that NJOY/JUUL and other major makers must abide by, but private sales of flavors are still allowed.

To tell the truth, this feels like they want to drag the FDA into court and have the courts order the FDA to create regulation on private sales of vaping products. There's little incentive for major makers to have limitations on sales while an entire private market exists that has no such limitation on the exact same product, and that's maybe the point JUUL wants to make.

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u/The-Implication-0 5d ago

Can you explain the ‘private sales of flavored vaping products’? What does that mean compared to ‘public sales’?

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u/rzalexander 5d ago

Small businesses and the like can still sell small batch vaping liquid of different flavors.

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u/dlm2137 5d ago

Hell isn’t there also some kinda loophole for the disposable vapes? For some reason those still come in flavors but the juul pods do not.

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u/rzalexander 5d ago

Those are almost all decentralized and have no interstate sales which is why they can be flavored.

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u/oprahspinfree 5d ago

They just banned the sale of disposable flavored vapes in Portland, ME, where I’m working this summer. I’d expect to see other cities following suit, if they haven’t already.

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u/xDulmitx 5d ago

I wonder when a company will make a vape with no flavor, and a separate flavor cartridge to get around the ban.

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u/cerialthriller 5d ago

That’s what you have to do in NJ to buy vape juice since flavor is banned. You buy a flavorless mixture of vape juice, a little tube of nicotine, and a flavor packet and you have to mix it yourself. So much safer to handle raw nicotine than let you buy flavored juice at a smoke shop

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u/QueasyVictory 5d ago

So much safer to handle raw nicotine than let you buy flavored juice at a smoke shop

That's what I'm thinking. Someone is going to get seriously hurt or killed with that concentrated nicotine.

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u/Kryptosis 5d ago

Love how you can have pure Nic shipped but pods with 5% nic? No waaaaayyy…

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u/Yeetanod 5d ago

See that's the funny thing. People think smoking cigarettes is bad, and teens like vapes because it emulates smoking cigarettes but with nice flavors. So then they ban the flavors, and then teens weren't just magically no longer addicted to nicotine; so the teens bought the flavors now available which is tobacco flavor and menthol flavor. I literally called this in 2018 I told my buddy that his little brother wouldn't stop vaping just because they ban the mango pods, and his little brother currently just smokes a pack of newport menthol per day. All the vape regulations did was result in kids switching back to regular cigarettes, and make adults like me not be able to have any fruity flavored pods.

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u/Ass_cream_sandwiches 5d ago

Idk where you live, but literally every single gas station and smoke shop is stocked to the roof with Alibaba mystery Chinese company vapes with a whole rainbow of flavors.

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u/PluvioShaman 5d ago

“Please load flavor cartridge… please load flavor cartridge…please…”

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u/NoMaans 5d ago

You're out of blueberry, in order to use your mixed berry, please fill the blue berry chamber.

But I am ok with just hitting the rasp...

FILL BLUEBERRY CHAMBER

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u/OtisTetraxReigns 5d ago

FC load letter? What does that even mean?!

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u/HazeMoar 5d ago

NYC banned flavors a while ago. Maybe years now. I'm currently 24 days into quitting after 16 yrs of intense nicotine intake (and never going back) but I still support the right to ingest whatever I damn please. Bans will just force kids to go to the more dangerous brands with less oversight. More death. Not sure how that helps.

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u/kryts 5d ago

You can go to most bodegas here and still find flavored vape (non JUUL)At least in Queens were I am. And pick up a pre roll while you are there.

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u/Yeetanod 5d ago

You can buy a gun at a bodega... of course they will not be impacted by legal changes lmao.

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u/rufotris 5d ago

Agreed, I smoked for many years and quit a few years back, but every once in a while, like when I just traveled this last week, I will grab an e-cigarette to cope with the fact that I’m not smoking weed while I travel and I don’t use it a lot but it helps my anxiety. I’m forced to breath in shit pollution air from countless sources. Why can’t I choose to sometimes ingest something I know is bad.. we still let McDonald’s exist don’t we?…

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u/Ganjaleaves 5d ago

Good thing they still sell flavored cigars in all different varieties. 👍

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u/shonen-trash 5d ago

It’s fucking stupid. All the kids have switched over to flavored disposable, so the ban hasn’t done anything besides making vaping harder for adults using them to quit cigarettes.

It’s also pretty telling that the approved Njoy ecigs (which taste like shit) are backed by, you guessed it, big tobacco.

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u/dlm2137 5d ago

Not disagreeing with you but isn't Juul also backed by big tobacco?

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u/wheres-the-tylenol 5d ago

Looks like Altria, which is the parent company of Phillip Morris who produce Marlboro, has the largest percentage of shares in JUUL at 35% so yes

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u/daymuub 5d ago

Because in the laws wording it bans "cartridge based" flavored vapes so the disposables are ok

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u/Zachs_Butthole 5d ago

Isn't this the reason that small vape stores have popped up all over?

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u/4509347vm89037m6 5d ago

They popped up because people love drugs, dude. The ones most people have decided are okay are nicotine, alcohol, and caffeine. Even during the lockdowns, people still needed their drugs.

I vape as a means of quitting smoking, started at .12, now I'm down to .03. There's a very minimal amount of nicotine in what I smoke now, and it's mostly a placebo. Still not a great idea to aerosol vegetable oil and inhale it down my gullet, but hey it can't be worse, or more expensive than a pack of smokes a day!

Having spoken to people at my local vape shop, I'm pretty sure it's an FDA thing. You may have seen a lot of boutique and local "vape brands", smaller operations that sell things locally or regionally. These are the ones that are going to be shit on by the FDA. Vape fluid is commonly sold in 30, 60, and 120ml bottles, with nicotine contents of 0.0 to 0.24%. Each bottle sold that's 30ml, at 0.0, 0.03, 0.06, 0.12, and 0.24% nicotine would need to be approved by the FDA, and that costs mad dosh. So if you're a company that's selling 50 different flavors, you have to get each unit you sell approved. So all the percents, for each bottle you sell. There's 15 permutations per flavor (30, 60, and 120ml, and all the percentages), let's say you stop selling 30 and 60ml bottles. There's still 5 per flavor, if you have 50 that's 250 approvals you have to get. If you dial it down to five flavors and two percentages for each, you're still paying a lot of money for the FDA approval.

A big company like Vuse or Juul can eat the money for FDA approval, whereas the small beans companies can't eat that cost. All the big vape companies are owned by British American Tobacco, or Phillip Morris, or their subsidiaries. My prediction is whoever owns the most politicians will end up being the most popular vape brand in America.

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u/Barbarake 5d ago

People don't realize exactly how much money they're talking about to try and get FDA approval.

Firstly, the FDA does not directly charge anything for you to apply. But they require all sorts of evidence-based studies which cost A LOT of money. The FDA itself estimated it would cost between $170,000 - (something like) $350,000 per application. That has proven to be completely wrong, companies are spending millions of dollars per application (and still getting denied).

An eliquid company cannot just submit an application showing exactly what ingredients are in its liquid. (That would be easy.) No, you have to do massive studies proving how your particular eliquid will not adversely affect public health. Not an individual's health, PUBLIC health.

And, if you're an eliquid manufacturer, all this is a moot point anyway because what vape setup will you use to conduct your studies? The results using the exact same liquid in different setups at different wattages and using different type coils can be very different.

So I could spend millions of dollars trying to get my strawberry cream flavored eliquid at 3mg/ml in a novo 2 setup using the 0.8ohm mesh pod. But what if someone wants to use the eliquid in a different mod. Oops, not approved for that.

(This is why the only things approved so far are for closed systems such as a vuse solo cartridge that only fits in a vuse solo battery.)

And, at the very end, it doesn't matter because the FDA is just arbitrarily denying anything with a flavor other than tobacco (and maybe menthol).

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u/LonelySquad 5d ago

They can also just sell unflavored juice and then sell the flavoring in separate bottles. Regulating this industry is a fools mission.

I make my own juice so I just buy each ingredient separately. It's not at all difficult to get a hold of it.

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u/isjhe 5d ago

When I go to my vape shop they don’t even carry JUUL. I can buy a months worth of nicotine juice for my refillable vape for the same cost as 4 days worth of pods.

Banning JUUL is years too late.

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u/Sjcolian27 5d ago

I tried both. I know that juul is not cost effective in terms of volume per dollar. I, however, enjoy the simplicity and ease of access to juul. I forget something, I go to a convenience store and buy a new kit, charger, etc. I need juice, everyone has pods. What I didn't enjoy was carrying around a Semtex detonator, coils, bottle's of juice, and mixing potions in the bathroom whenever I went anywhere. Juul is just simpler and more convenient.

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u/HalogenSunflower 5d ago

Seriously. I'm so irritated.

I now feel like I'm going to have to put in as much research and effort as I did when I built my last desktop in order to end up with a vaping 'solution' that works and doesn't just piss me off constantly. I had some contraption back in like 2014. I thought it was a piece of crap.

I haven't been this pissed at the government since they banned Camel Mellows more than a decade ago and I had to find a new cigarette flavor. How is it that they can accomplish literally nothing for society except expediting some tiny regulation every ten years solely to aggravate me.

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u/efisherharrison 5d ago

Juul is the Keurig of vaping

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u/TheBrofessor23 5d ago

What’s the difference between Juul with their pods, and something like an Elfbar, which comes in all sorts of flavors, is rechargeable, and disposable

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u/sod0pecope 5d ago

I talked to the owner of the vape shop I frequent and he said it’s because the wording of the law, it states flavored pods while these are disposable vapes… no difference in the vape juice just the container it comes in

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u/birbsgonewild 5d ago

Ah, needs to be more wasteful. Makes sense.

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u/JadesterZ 5d ago

Nice, so the government was bought out by big tobacco and then created way more plastic and electronic waste then there would've been. All in the name of safety of course 🙄

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u/feelings_arent_facts 5d ago

Elfbars and other products were developed to get around the Juul regulation. Basically, if you remember, flavored Juul pods were banned. However, the pods were banned. Elfbars are not pods. They are entire disposable units. Therefore, they are not banned. Yay loopholes.

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u/Threewisemonkey 5d ago

So now people throw away a whole battery instead of just an empty pod. Awesome!

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u/zomiaen 5d ago

Yeah what the fuck. Too bad we've allowed the EPA to be gutted to the point they are becoming effectively toothless.

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u/RazekDPP 5d ago

Yeah, that's why Biden expanded the FDA's role to regulate synthetic nicotine in March 2022.

The Food and Drug Administration (FDA) will now have authority to regulate synthetic nicotine under provisions included in the federal omnibus spending bill recently passed by Congress and signed into law today (March 15) by President Joe Biden. This new authority will expand the FDA’s existing authority to regulate tobacco plant-based nicotine in vaping products to include nicotine made in labs.

Disposable vaping products using synthetic nicotine such as those marketed under the Puff Bar label have emerged in recent years as leaders in the vaping market because they escaped FDA regulatory authority banning sweet and fruit-flavored products. Among high school and middle school current users, i.e., those who reported using vaping products within the past 30 days, the Puff Bar brand was the most commonly used by a wide margin, according to a 2021 Centers for Disease Control and Prevention analysis of the National Youth Tobacco Survey.

https://achi.net/newsroom/congress-gives-fda-authority-to-regulate-vaping-products-that-use-synthetic-nicotine/

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u/zerguser45 5d ago

I prefer the snap decision that reddit has made on this topic as the real reason.

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u/MartinTheMorjin 5d ago

Well they aren’t mutually exclusive. Philllip Morris behaved the same way but they were on team McConnell.

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u/chubbysumo 5d ago

The company that owns 35% of juul is the ghost to Philip Morris.

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u/-TheMistress 5d ago

Correct. Phillip Morris, Altria, then JUUL.

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u/zuzg 5d ago

Phillip Morris went all in with developing their new kind of cigarette, the IQOS, otherwise they're also pretty big into cannabis these days.

Iirc they even announced that there's no future for conventional cigarettes

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u/madcow44820 5d ago

I just recently sold my vape chain of 9 stores. It's my opinion Big Tobacco would love the FDA to ban flavors altogether. When the public can get no better a product from a private seller than the convenience store, they win. Stores fold and most everything goes back to gas stations etc.

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u/IRefuseToGiveAName 5d ago

When I was quitting analogues, my local store literally worked with me to make a flavor that I enjoyed so much I never picked up a cigarette again.

After they changed the law I couldn't get it anymore. I still never picked up analogues again, but man I miss that shit.

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u/Bitlovin 5d ago

It's way easier to order base and flavoring and mix it at home than you might guess. Very cheap, too.

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u/shakygator 5d ago

I've been mixing for years. Zero nic now but I still like the flavors. I can't remember the last time I bought supplies (that were only like $50). People buying premix are paying out the wazoo.

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u/Bitlovin 5d ago

Yeah it's crazy that people can buy like a gallon of nicotine base and flavoring for cheaper than most places charge for a tiny 30ml bottle of premix. The markup is wild.

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u/tepidlymundane 5d ago

You sound like you have some knowledge - what's up with all these very similar-looking vape/tobacco/cbd/kratom stores opening these day? Dozens of them, similar appearance, looks like they carry way more inventory you'd expect for a run down strip mall.

My bad guesses: Gold rush? New intoxicants that aren't fully regulated? Hoping for legal weed? Low entry costs? Money laundering? High markups? What the kids are into these days? Lots of midsize chain competition, like your 9 stores, and some other guy with 20, and no category killer with 2000?

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u/MedicatedDeveloper 5d ago

Low entry cost, extremely high margins (120+% markup at the shit places it's insane), good location can recoup costs only being open odd hours but only 40 hrs a week (noon-8 wed-sun is common).

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u/Bitlovin 5d ago

I recently switched to making my own juice because you're right, the writing is on the wall here. Luckily it's super easy to order flavoring and base and mix at home.

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u/Neckbeard_Crumbs 5d ago

Some truth in this comment and some bs. Juul submitted a PMTA in 2020 and provided more information and details than most companies and 100% cooperated with the FDA. Juul also preemptively pulled all flavors (including mint), marketing, social media, and lobbying well before anyone else.

Fruity flavors from random china companies are everywhere now and so the big players like JUUL and Vuse took huge hits by not having them on shelves. Vuse took less of a hit because their “menthol” flavor is basically Mint with a Menthol label slapped on it.

Old juul’s marketing was too aggressive and the flavors definitely appealed to youth. Juul over the last 3 years has been 100% cooperative and focused on curbing youth data.

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u/tackle_bones 5d ago

I use juul products. They helped me kick a very long habit of cigarette use. I thought they were ridiculous when they were more popular, and tried using other vape products before the maintenance got annoying and I went back to cigs. It’s been east to quit using Juul. They’re mostly reliable, and they’re available in a normal non-fruity flavor I like.

Since using them and with them being more on my radar, I agree with you that they seemed to be doing waaaay more to be in compliance than almost any other brand. I couldn’t even get pods shipped to me from Juul for a while because they were pausing operations as they reoriented to stay in compliance with new rules in Florida. Meanwhile, all my younger friends use super-flavored single use devices that seemingly break, in spirit if not outright, all the rules that Juul is being punished for, while pretty much only older people who legitimately want to quit or stay off cigs use Juul. I don’t know anymore man. The FDA seems to be targeting them over past market conditions and ‘transgressions’ that currently do not reflect reality.

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u/Pahndo 5d ago

"appealed to youth" Yet you have to be 21 to buy vape products in most states. Go after the stores selling these to kids, not adults who want flavored E-juice. No different than the list of fruit, dessert, candy flavored alcohol you can buy.

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u/AlpineCorbett 5d ago

Owned by the same guys who own Marlboro. Guarantee their lobbying payments are made on time.

This had more to do with fighting with the FDA for a while now in a running pissing contest.

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u/BoopinSnoots24-7 5d ago

35% “owned” by the company that sells Marlboro in the US, Altria. PMI is rest of world

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u/GarlicEarWax 5d ago

The other folks spending though as per opensecrets.org ...Annual Lobbying by Philip Morris International $9mil in 2021...

https://www.opensecrets.org/federal-lobbying/clients/summary?cycle=2021&id=D000055403

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u/Redz0ne 5d ago

$9mil seems small for a multi-billion dollar corporation.

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u/Barjuden 5d ago

Real question though. Since the Supreme Court is about to gut the regulatory agencies' ability to regulate business in West Virginia vs EPA, will the FDA even be allowed to do this? This ruling would suggest that regulatory agencies won't be allowed to implement regulations unless specifically passed by congress, which would mean congress would have to ban Juul themselves. Also, the Cuyahoga river is going to be on fire again, but hey, what else do you expect from this country?

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u/ideal_NCO 5d ago

🎼 Come on down to Cleveland town everyone…

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u/lexaproquestions 5d ago Helpful

I have no idea why we permit advertising of any "adult only" drugs if we're concerned about their adoption by children. Just ban all advertising of nicotine, alcohol, and cannabis.

And, quite frankly, restricting vape flavors based on whether they're tobacco or mint or fruity pebbles is almost as silly. I like nicotine, and I like flavored vapes. I haven't ever seen a single advertisement for vapes outside of a poster at a gas station, and yet here I sit - in my late 40s - puffing away on lemon creme flavored e-juice.

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u/Grouchy-Pop588 5d ago

It's weird because I thought flavored vapes were banned. But you still find them in most places

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u/lexaproquestions 5d ago

The laws are a mess.

Basically, at the Federal level, any prefilled vape "cartridge" other than mint or plain is banned. So Juul and Vuse are mint or plain only, and that's 99% of what you see in quickie marts and grocery stores.

Disposable prefilled vapes without a removable cartridge are legal in every flavor. But they're expensive enough most places outside of tobacco or vape shops don't sell them.

Ejuice and nic salt liquid in any flavor is legal, you just have to use a cartridge or reservoir you fill it yourself.

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u/Grouchy-Pop588 5d ago

Its funny cause here ,most gas stations have flavored disposable vapes. The vape shops do even. Its only in like atlanta that I find some stores only have the tobaco or menthol only flavors

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u/Kichigai 5d ago

Depends on the gas station I'd bet. Kwik Trip and Speedway are very corporate and will only sell what corporate tells them to sell. The privately owned Marathon or Clark, they'll sell whatever turns them a profit, including “purple rhino” boner pills that'll probably induce migraine.

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u/Grouchy-Pop588 5d ago

Yessir, youd be right. If its private you can buy synthetic urine even or tiny kitchen scales. But a racetrack or similar wouldnt even in our town. Its just not enforced on smaller companies and larger companies seem to go ahead and do it to be safe

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u/Kichigai 5d ago

I'm not even sure it's enforcement. It's corporatization. More upstanding gas station brands won't allow their partners to sell shadier stuff. They might allow something like beef sticks from a local butcher, but I don't think you'll ever find those questionable “male enhancement” pills in a Holiday or Wawa.

So they'll buy those cheap, somewhat questionable disposable vapes that can contain flavors from smaller, local vendors created to specifically skirt the rules, but a bigger brand would never do that because it hurts their image.

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u/Hadriandidnothinwrng 5d ago

Menthol not mint, just for clarity.

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u/lbag86 5d ago

Yet you can go to the liquor store and buy alcoholic mountain dew and root beer, Swedish fish and cupcake flavored vodka...blue slush puppy cider... but we get, "what about the KIDS!?" When it comes to vaping. Ooookkkkk

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u/h3r4ld 5d ago

This 100%. NY (where I live) calls an apple-flavored vape "dangerous to kids" but calls an apple-flavored vodka "a cultural export".

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u/AshuraBaron 5d ago

Not that many people who are vape artisans, but tons of people who think they are alcohol connoisseurs. "This IPA is a much better melody of flavors than that swill!"

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u/samuraimegas 5d ago

I felt like a vape artisan for a little while. I mixed custom juice for a shop for a few years and I had a fair amount of loyal customers. They'd see me instead of the owner and go grab some more cash, lol.

Was really fun creating new flavors to try in my box mod I had at the time. Even had a few personal flavors of mine that sold a lot in the store because people would smell mine and want to try it.

Shop closed down a little bit ago, gonna miss that place. Really fun job.

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u/Cuive 5d ago

I'm still waiting for the other shoe to drop on edibles. You can't say flavored vapes attracts children to nicotine more than literal candy with weed in it.

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u/Godot_12 5d ago

Yeah I don't get banning any of it. Adults like shit that tastes good too

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u/Acmnin 5d ago

It’s propaganda to rile up the bad mommy crowd who think their precious little darling needs to be protected from everything at the cost of adults.

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u/sikagoon7 5d ago

Fuck them kids.

People that put their parenting responsibilities on everyone but themselves are exhausting.

When my parents caught me spending money on shit they disapproved of they stopped giving me money. It didn't stop me, I learned to make money doing random shit. It ignited a little bit of an entrepreneurial spirit in me. I scammed all the other kids out of their YuGiOh cards.

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u/WarStrifePanicRout 5d ago

Its less: "for the kids"

More: "for the parents not having to monitor their kids."

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u/hakuna_dentata 5d ago

Propaganda sponsored by the tobacco lobby specifically.

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u/VenusdeMiloTrap 5d ago

America gave up on fighting alcohol after the hot mess called prohibition.

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u/WeIsOutOfHam 5d ago

Now if we could get them to apply that logic to other prohibitions...

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u/Asleep_Opposite6096 5d ago

Flavored abortions???

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u/AshuraBaron 5d ago

I'll take 2 creme brulee abortions please.

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u/Powersoutdotcom 5d ago

*sounds of a blowtorch ignition

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u/make_love_to_potato 5d ago

I myself am partial to the meat loaf flavor.

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u/david_ranch_dressing 5d ago

mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

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u/joshgi 5d ago

And the fight against non combustible nicotine has been a tax cash grab "for the children" for a decade now with no end in sight.

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u/BasilExposition75 5d ago

You can buy a red bull and a vodka at the store and mix them: but when someone does you favor or prepackaging them together then all fury broke loose.

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u/captainnowalk 5d ago

Yeah this is always what weirds me out about these campaigns… we know alcohol is one of the most dangerous and harmful drugs that exists, and alcohol companies are always making new, sweet, candy-flavored concoctions in brightly colored cans and bottles. A lot of that seems to be the same idea as the evidence used to say “oh this company is advertising to children” when it’s something like cigarettes or vapes, but the far more dangerous drug just gets a pass to do the same stuff? It just seems like we’re wildly inconsistent here…

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u/Sorge74 5d ago

Bang makes a hard seltzer, it tastes like candy. Bang energy drinks themselves appeal way too much to kids for how much caffeine they put in it, but then to take that branding and make an alcoholic drink....

Which btw doesn't contain caffeine that's so f****** wrong..

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u/corkyskog 5d ago

I don't think they can legally combine caffeine and alcohol into the same can after 4 Loco made the news and everyone went crazy.

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u/ideal_NCO 5d ago

Them 4Lokos used be lit

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u/jackp0t789 5d ago

Guaranteed black out 60% of the time, every time

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u/Psilocub 5d ago

"I'm not even drunk right now," two accidents deep into the night.

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u/SasquatchWookie 5d ago

Everyone in college speech class made 4loko their argument (for or against ).

It was lit but the ingredients might as well have been motor oil.

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u/LSDummy 5d ago

Especially when the alcoholic mountain dew is displayed in full pallets all along the grocery aisles next to the other soda lmao

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u/draeth1013 5d ago

The banning flavors thing is pretty ridiculous. Teens start smoking CIGARETTES all on their own and they're awful, especially in the beginning.

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u/OneSidedPolygon 5d ago edited 5d ago

Being drunk and or high helps. It's darts at parties, then darts between classes, then finally darts on the porch with your old man because you're a smoker now.

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u/lexaproquestions 5d ago

I used to smoke and am an avid dart player. I would often dart while I darted.

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u/rugbyj 5d ago

You got a fucking dart in your neck, man.

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u/AdministrativeBit510 5d ago

While we’re at it, also ban gambling advertising in media.

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u/Sgt3Way 5d ago

Every single sporting event i watch in Canada is jammed with online gambling ads during commercial breaks lately. I dont know what changed, but I swear that was never the case before. Every single ad is for Leo Vegas, or some other gambling site scam.

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u/Odd_Voice5744 5d ago

also, youtube is full of ads for gambling. i only get ads served on the mobile app but every single one is for leo vegas, the lottery, sports bettings, or some other online casino.

how is it legal that they can push so many ads for a service that can destroy your life so easily. what if I'm a recovering gambling addict and i'm constantly getting served these ads?

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u/scarabic 5d ago

I remember the Camel magazine ads with a curly haired dude always on safari somewhere, and everyone knows the Marlboro man.

I found these advertisements sooo mysterious when I was a kid. They were like the first panel of a comic book that went nowhere and didn’t even have a title, except for some weird shit about “discover flavor country” which was just wuuuuut? to 6yo me.

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u/therealpygon 5d ago Helpful

I really hate these sensationalized news titles; they didn't "ban JUUL", they banned all unapproved e-cigarette devices over a year ago but gave every manufacturer almost a year to submit applications and allowed them to continue selling the product in the meantime. JUUL (which is owned by Atria, aka Philip Moris parent company) had their application denied, while NJOY, a competing product, received approval because they showed the risk to addicting kids was outweighed by the benefit to adults, and that their products were safe (mechanically). Specifically, JUUL failed to show that their products wouldn't leak; nicotine can be absorbed through the skin and a high dose of nicotine can be fatal, which is possible to occur from a leaking tank. It was also denied because they failed to show the same benefit to adults (while minimizing risk of teen addiction) that NJOY showed. While someone might say "but NJOY showed it, so why would JUUL have to", and that is because every application is judged based on its own merits, with its own supporting evidence for those specific devices.

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u/appleparkfive 5d ago

So is NJOY sticking around? I know some people who use Juul and they'll definitely be looking for an alternative. It's a lot better than them going back to regular cigarettes

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u/therealpygon 5d ago

NJOY received approval, so I would say yes that they should still be around. I also highly recommend that you encourage those people to visit a reputable vape shop or online retailer. The cost for re-usable disposables has decreased significantly in the past couple years, and it's likely to be significantly cheaper that buying either one of those once you get past the initial costs.

I always enjoyed smoking and still want to; I've always said if there was a safe cigarette with no nicotine, I would still be smoking because it was never about nicotine for me. It was way easier to quit when I could attack the addiction (nicotine) separately from the habit (mental) by reducing my nicotine level, which a vape shop can help do. There is a reason you can't pick up a zero-nicotine JUUL (or NJOY) at the gas station, and it's because tobacco companies that produce those products want to to retain their customers.

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u/Venge22 5d ago

Kids stopped smoking juuls years ago, there's cheaper, better, less regulated options easily available

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u/corkyskog 5d ago

Seriously, why get a JUUL if you are a kid when you can buy a disposable flavored vape that is the same price or cheaper, easier to dispose of the evidence (as you don't have to worry about hiding pods), and arguably tastes better. If a teacher or parent throws away your JUUL you need to buy a whole new kit. If they throw away your disposable vape you just go get a new one, like you were going to anyway.

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u/Fermain 5d ago

I tried the disposables for the first time recently, having never heard of the popular brands at all. Immediately got hooked and increased my intake by 2 or 3 times. Immediately increased my spend. I felt awful every time I threw one away.

I've smoked tar cigs heavily for most of my life, so not exactly the fresh audience that these disposable brands target. And I fell, hook and sinker for that disgusting shit.

The youth have no chance. A cigarette is disgusting and takes serious social pressure to start the addiction. These are flippant, delicious, and seemingly consequence free.

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u/Makaidi39 5d ago

What makes juuls e-cigarettes so different from litterly every other e-cigarette brands?

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u/The_cogwheel 5d ago

Juul (along with all other e-cig companies) have to cooperate with the FDA with its regulations and audits. Juul so far has been... less than cooperative with this. So the FDA went "if you dont want to play by the rules, then fine. Get out.".

Now this is where things get ugly. The FDA bans companies like Juul from making and selling flavoured vapes, but not the private sale of them. So you could, in theory, go up to Canada, buy a crap ton of flavored vapes, and sell them in the states all legally. But juul cant.

So my guess is that Juul, the leader of flavoured vapes, thinks that is more than a little unfair and wants to drag the FDA to court to voice thier complaints.

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u/WarbleDarble 5d ago

The FDA has also been wildly inconsistent in enforcing or even explaining their own rules. The made anyone in the market go through a wildly expensive approval process only to ignore or reject nearly all applications without explanation on why some are approved while others are not. Out of the thousands of applications they have approved a handful of sellers.

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u/SniffinRoundYourDoor 5d ago

Meanwhile Fruit Loop flavored Vodka is cool and Talk show hosts in the AM downing wine on television is cool too.

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u/TalouseLee 5d ago

Let’s not forget the sale of regular, ol’ fashion cigarettes. Dude, even candy cigarettes! Lol. Extra large sodas and triple burger patties.

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u/Insanity_Pills 5d ago

Soda and other fast foods are un-ironically worse for you than vaping, yet the government is on the anti vape crusade because it's new and scary to parents.

They're even using the "but the kids" argument even though an astronomically larger amount of kids drink too much soda and eat too much shitty food. I guess the fast food lobby is richer.

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u/bikebrooklynn 5d ago Wholesome

It’s the only thing that let me quit smoking after trying everything for 26 years.

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u/nightmother95 5d ago

I didn’t smoke for as long— eight years— but Juul was also the only thing that helped me successfully quit (been over a year since I smoked cigarettes).

I had been planning to quit at some point anyway since I am going to move to a country where they don’t sell Juul, but the ban is ridiculous. I don’t think kids are the primary consumers of Juul, it’s adults who are trying to get off cigarettes. And while obviously not consuming any nicotine at all is the healthiest choice, vaping is SIGNIFICANTLY safer than cigarettes. This will only hurt smokers who want to quit but need an alternative to help transition away from cigs.

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u/reddit_reaper 5d ago

I just hope they don't ban ecigs in general. They've gotten such a bad rap when those fake Chinese THC carts were killing people that were completely unrelated to nic vapes but still got lumped in. Just annoying

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u/TuckerCarlsonsOhface 5d ago All-Seeing Upvote

But cigarettes are fine. Smoke ‘em if ya got ‘em, I guess.

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u/Just-a-Lurker-Two 5d ago

Lots of people complaining in this thread and not even bothering to open the article where it says like three sentences in that JUUL isn’t cooperating with the FDA and it’s competitors have been cleared for sale already because they did

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u/TuckerCarlsonsOhface 5d ago

I saw that, but it goes on to describe how hard they’ve been going after juul, and vapes in general regarding possible safety concerns, yet cigarettes are still available everywhere even though their dangers are well documented.

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u/FoxyFreckles1989 5d ago

But it also went on to say the FDA is attempting to remove most nicotine from cigarettes.

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u/berserkerscientist 5d ago

Who cares about nicotine? Its not nicotine that's the problem, its the hundreds of other chemicals created by combustion when smoking. Which is why vaping is 95% less harmful.

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u/NewFuturist 5d ago

Which is dumb because people will smoke more to get the same hit.

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u/platonicgryphon 5d ago

Cigarettes are still available because of a very long history of historical use, but have had a push over the last few decades to both convince people to stop smoking and try and prevent kids from starting the habit to begin with. Smoking isn’t just being ignored and the most recent generations have been extremely close to avoiding the habit all together, but yeah vaping is being unfairly targeted when it has shown a large spike in usage among high school kids and breathing foreign particles into your lungs is not healthy.

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u/KNunner 5d ago

So they will ban juul, which is regulated and “clean” and continue to allow cheap poisonous Chinese disposable vapes being sold to adults and teens everywhere? Makes total sense..

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u/joshgi 5d ago

Can we all remember that the large driving force for juul bans was the mysterious "vaping illness" that was caused by low quality additives in THC cartridges. Next time you think the government can't do something because democracy takes time just remember how fast they banned the majority of juul products for something not at all related to juul products.

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u/GideonWells 5d ago

That happened in January 2020. Strange respiratory illness indeed.

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u/sentient-sloth 5d ago

It was happening all 2019 too tbf. Knew a friend who was hospitalized in April 2019 after smoking one of the trash carts. Had to have been Mario Carts or the Danknite’s or something lmao. We laugh now but it was crazy.

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u/CyberZalophus 5d ago

They better ban all of Chinese vapes that go along with it. The minute they banned juul 100 different brands of Chinese kill-your-lung vapes appeared in every flavor under the sun.

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u/GrilledCheeser 5d ago

Good thing I quit 346 days ago

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u/Eiffel-Tower777 5d ago

When I quit (1986), it took me a year to feel normal. So if your experience is similar, you're almost there. A friend of mine gave me some good advice which has worked for me. Don't ever take one more puff. There's no good outcome. At this point, you will either hate it (tastes terrible, cough cough)... or you'll kind of like it. Both results are terrible. Congratulations!

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u/GrilledCheeser 5d ago

Thank you! You are absolutely right. For me, the cravings truly went away after about six months but by that time I would just kinda chuckle and tell my brain to “give it up buddy! It’s not gonna happen”

I will never smoke again. The first three weeks were such a nightmare, and I remember it clearly. I am not going through that again! I won.

Also my app that tracks my quitting journey shows I have saved just under 3,000 USD by not buying the juul pods. Crazy.

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u/TheSalaminizer420 5d ago

Fuck this country is so stupid. Actual cigarettes are legal but a safer alternative is not? This reeks of Big Tobacco.

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u/Storkmonkey7 5d ago

Guess is time to start smoking cigarettes

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u/mehow29 5d ago

Except they are making cigs like shit now and charging $20 a pack.

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u/StryderXGaming 5d ago

Funny how these can get banned yet cigarettes just need a label. Almost like the system is broken

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u/trinithepooh2 5d ago

Thanks! Now I can drink an unlimited amount of alcohol and smoke dozens of cigarettes a day in peace! But at least Juul is banned! What a relief! /s

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u/reaper527 5d ago

this won't happen. it will get appealed, get tied up in court for years, they'll point out that the FDA already authorized similar products from competing manufacturers, a more sane FDA will reverse the decision, and these vapes will ultimately not miss a single day of sales due to being pulled from store shelves.

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u/PimpDaddyEzio 5d ago edited 5d ago

always found it hilarious e cigs are always in ads to be banned yet normal smoking is commonly accepted

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u/firstbreathOOC 5d ago

The power of lobbying. Even today, Big Tobacco has power.

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u/HialeahRootz 5d ago

I know they targeted Juul for their marketing practices, but how does banning Juul help in the long run? There are still numerous products/devices that can replace the Juul. All I see the younger folk using nowadays is the NOVOs or the Aris. Will they ban those as well? Seems like a big pony show to appease angry parents.

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u/chingy1337 5d ago

Cigs are still legal though lol. Wtf?

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u/mogsoggindog 5d ago

I don't get why so much effort is spent on trying to ban nicotine products. Its one of the lowest-priority societal problems on my list.

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u/BullockHouse 5d ago

The lunatics are running the asylum at the FDA. Traditional tobacco products kill 480,000 Americans a year. There have been less than 100 vaping deaths EVER and 0 from legal products. No-one has ever died from a legal nicotine vape.

Nicotine vaporizers are a tremendous public health win. It could save literally millions of lives over the next decade. Forcing vaping products to jump through hoops that make them less competitive with traditional tobacco products is regulator malpractice. There's no rational justification for it, and the stakes are almost unimaginably large. Nuking a small city would result in fewer deaths.

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u/SLCW718 5d ago

What problem do they think this will solve?

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u/PUFFED_UP_CROWS_COCK 5d ago

We need to do something about the “disposable” rechargeable ecigs. I’m finding enough li-ion cells on the ground to power a fuckin ps2 on my walks.

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u/sconsin 5d ago edited 5d ago

Glad the government is around to force me to live how they think is best

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u/adventure_in_gnarnia 5d ago

Surely, prohibition will work this time !

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u/Immediate-Mongoose58 5d ago

All I can say is they better not institute a blanket ban on e cigs/smoke devices because I’ve been off cigarettes since February and it’s only because of this smok pen thing I’ve been using

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u/VisableAlternative 5d ago

FDA is nothing but a government MOB attachment

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u/andrefishmusic 5d ago

THINK ABOUT THE CHILDREN!!!! /s

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u/Arikaido777 5d ago

the cigarette corpos demand bodies, welcome to america

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u/butterisfat 5d ago

Yet cigarettes are still legal. Big tobacco wins again.