r/todayilearned
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u/Specialist_Check
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14d ago
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TIL Ohio has license plates reading "Birthplace of Aviation" and North Carolina reads "First in Flight" because the two states both claim the Wright Brothers as their own. The Wrights performed the first controlled, powered flight in Kitty Hawk, N.C. but built their plane in Ohio
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-590080391.9k
u/Dont__Grumpy__Stop
14d ago
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I bet it was a bitch to get it from Ohio to North Carolina, too bad they didn’t have planes yet.
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u/shewolf4552 13d ago
They actually took the disassembled pieces on a train and then bought the wood pieces en route to Kitty Hawk to assemble there.
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u/spacewalk__ 13d ago
they also had a workshop in france where they spent a period improving it, achieving longer and longer powered flights, and with passengers. one of the brothers was there basically 24/7 working [the other had a horrible leg/bone/etc injury from a crash]
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u/imaginary_num6er 13d ago
Probably by Northfolk Southern too
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u/shewolf4552 13d ago
Chesapeake and Ohio number 4 train according to historical data.
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u/Quezavious 13d ago
They at one point merged with Baltimore & Ohio (B&O railroad from Monopoly) and eventually through mergers became modern day CSX. The only real competitor to Norfolk Southern in Ohio.
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u/SomeTwelveYearOld 13d ago
And my grandfather put that merger together as an executive with the B&O. Grew up with Chessie stuff everywhere. Also, first to computerize rail stocks and he had a letter from Eisenhower thanking him for his service in constructing the bunker at the Greenbrier.
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u/aBoyandHisVacuum 13d ago
Wow!!! Hahha never thought about that. Old ass box truck. And proably not assembled. Lol
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u/Milligan 13d ago
The first Ikea airplane.
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u/aBoyandHisVacuum 13d ago
Instead of instructions... its a piece of paper that says "good luck"
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u/DerSchattenJager 14d ago
They didn’t just build their planes in Ohio, they were raised, and owned a bicycle shop, in Dayton.
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u/Houndie 13d ago
I'm from Dayton, and let me tell you, this rivalry is somehow both super friendly, yet also something you would stab someone in a bar over.
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u/white_andrew 13d ago
Also from Dayton and my parents now live in North Carolina and they’re constantly fighting this battle lol
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u/greg19735 13d ago
yeah i think people outside of NC or Ohio seem to think this banter is more mean spirited than it is.
It never comes up unless it comes up organically. Which admittedly is relatively often because of our quarters and license plates.
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u/BassBanjoBikes 13d ago
“It’s not mean spirited, it doesn’t even come up that often, only organically, which is often, due to it being posted everywhere, and someone might stab you in a bar over it according to another user but it’s not that serious of a thing”
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u/hymen_destroyer 13d ago
Also it's Denali not Mt. Mckinley
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u/ObscureCulturalMeme 13d ago
Hearing our elected Boner make such a big deal about keeping the name McKinley was embarrassing. Like, fuck, even McKinley himself wasn't a huge fan of the idea by all accounts, but that's national politics for ya.
Actual citizens of Ohio were on board with having the Alaskans choosing names of things in Alaska.
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u/sgrams04 13d ago
Dayton has a large air base there (with really cool annual air shows), a great air museum, and the University of Dayton sports teams are the Dayton Flyers. That place bleeds aviation.
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u/Dogzillas_Mom 13d ago
Yep. Wright Patterson AFB.
Guess where the Wright part came from?
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u/The_Fiji_Water 13d ago
Wright State University
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u/DownwindLegday 13d ago
Wright State, wrong university
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u/IgotCHUbits 13d ago
Anyone who downvotes this isn’t from the Dayton area….
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u/Kagamid 13d ago
I'd like to get in on the reference. I'm not from Dayton.
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u/orangethepurple 13d ago
Wright State isn't exactly known for their academic prowess
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u/Meeseeks_and_Destroy 13d ago
Engineering, Business, Nursing, Theater, and a Medical School. Not a terrible option if you're looking at one of those fields. Not to mention it's a cheaper option than most other Ohio schools. And if you're looking to work ar Wright-Patt AFB, you'll probably have an easier time getting hired.
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u/Dogzillas_Mom 13d ago
And that was named after…?
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u/Quirky-Skin 13d ago
John Wright. He was just a random dude but a cool one, campus legend. Made the beer run in under 12 parsecs
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u/BobTheAverage 13d ago •
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I work at Wright Patt. I always wonder who the f#$* Patterson is that he gets equal billing with the TWO guys who invented airplanes.
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u/IgotCHUbits 13d ago
The Pattersons were a big family in Dayton in the early 1900s. Frank Patterson was a test pilot from that family and was killed in plane crash that took off from Wright Field. They named the field he crashed in after him. When those fields were combined to make the Air Force base they kept both names.
Edit: also the first field was Wilbur Wright field, so technically Orville is left out.
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u/IwuwH 13d ago
The popcorn guy?
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u/TedLassosDarkSide 13d ago
No, that’s Orville Rickenbacker. His airport is just south of Columbus near Lockbourne.
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u/1974Datsun620 13d ago
Orville *Redenbacher was the popcorn guy. You're think of Eddie Rickenbacker, the WWI flying ace...or else you already knew that and are trolling, in which case kudos.
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u/beanthebean 13d ago
When I was growing up in that area and driving to the air force museum to spend an afternoon (cause it's free to get in and what high schooler doesn't love getting stoned and spending the day in the an amazing museum) , I'd have to get on Patterson road and pass Patterson Park to get to Wright Patterson air force base. You can't live around there and not know all the names in this thread
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u/your-mom-- 13d ago
Also, a cool historical museum/park (Carillon Park) where they not only house a flying machine, they have equipment from the Wright Bros' bike shop, and other fun that was historically relevant in and around Dayton. Like the cash register!
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u/ObscureCulturalMeme 13d ago
historical museum/park (Carillon Park)
They also have a brewery, using beer recipes and techniques from when the surrounding city was built. Like, beer that's meant to not be carbonated at all. (And some goddamn amazing sausages.)
Like the cash register!
I used to live way down the road from where the cash register was invented. Was an oddly weird reminder to think about as a student, that something so commonplace had to be invented.
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u/Syntra44 13d ago
That air museum is by far one of the coolest places I’ve ever been. There was SO MUCH to see. I highly recommend anyone who likes planes even a little to visit.
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u/impy695 13d ago
For those unaware, it's the US Airforce museum. It's not just an air museum, it's the main museum of our airforce.
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u/FizzyBeverage 13d ago
It’s also free admission. Your tax dollars at work, surprisingly.
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u/Sackyhack 13d ago
They did everything in Dayton, they just wanted a safe place to test the plane so they went to the sand dunes in NC.
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u/huffdadde 13d ago
More than that, flight is a strong word for what happened in North Carolina. Closer to a controlled glide with strong winds to help keep them up. The real flying happened at Huffman Prairie in Dayton, OH in the months following the North Carolina “flight” when they started making adjustments and learned how to control things better.
One weekend in North Carolina at barely above sea level doesn’t really match up to the months in Ohio where they eventually were climbing to hundreds and even thousands of feet in the air with actual control over the airplane.
Yes, the first flight was in North Carolina, but it was barely flight. The subsequent flights in Ohio were possible because of that first one, but flight as you think of it today with control and ability to climb and dive wasn’t really happening in North Carolina. It’s like taking credit for a child’s first run when it was more like a first knee in front of the other during their first crawl.
Source: History of Aviation class taken at the University of Dayton in 2002 taught by a pilot and history professor.
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u/PeterAhlstrom 13d ago
I’m also from the Dayton area, and we’d go sledding at the Wright Brothers Memorial park right by Huffman Prairie. If there’s one conspiracy theory I ascribe to, it’s that the Wright Brothers had already flown their plane at Huffman Prairie during private tests before they took it down to Kitty Hawk to show it off to the press. Why try to make a big public splash if you haven’t already proven yourself in private? Nah, they knew it would work, because it already had.
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u/shhlurkingforscience 13d ago
I will DIE on this hill. North Carolina can suck a dick, the Wright brothers belong to Ohio.
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u/mentosbreath 13d ago
The first flight must be the most important thing that ever happened in NC for them to have it on both their license plates and their state quarter. The Wrights accomplished that in a total of several weeks in NC, spread over a couple trips. That’s a hell of a thing that two Yankees did more in a couple weeks in NC than any actual North Carolinian. Quite a compliment for Ohio.
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u/willy410 13d ago edited 13d ago
North Carolina was the first colony to declare independence from the British. UNC was also the first public university in the nation. I don't care about y'all wanting sole claim on flight as long as you give Charlotte Queen City and stop calling Cincinnati that.
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u/SebastianAhoTheGOAT 13d ago edited 13d ago
This is why I’m thinking about getting a NASCAR plate. Stock car racing is NC born and bread.
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u/TroubleshootenSOB 13d ago
The watermelon plate is cooler lmao
Proceeds don't go to a watermelon charity, organization, or anything. It's just a plate with a watermelon on it
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u/Fragrant_Lack_86 14d ago
Both claims are fair tho… Ohio made aviation/ planes, and NC was first take off so
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u/Hog_enthusiast 13d ago •
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As someone from NC, our claim is totally unfair and I’ll tell you why. When the wright brothers first arrived in North Carolina, they were actually shunned by the locals for being outsiders, and they were even more shunned when people found out they were making a flying machine. In NC people thought if man was meant to fly god would have given us wings. The brothers actually had a really hard time finding someone who would ferry them to kitty hawk, that’s how unwelcome they were.
So for us to turn around and try to claim to be “first in flight” is pretty rich if you ask me
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u/Chris_8675309_of_42M 13d ago
The original motto: "Flight happened here first, under protest" didn't fit on a license plate.
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u/ArcDelver 13d ago
Everyone posting about the locals fighting this need to learn about Bill Tate. People in this thread thing they just showed up and flew once and that was it
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u/CedarWolf 13d ago
Seriously. The Wrights built a whole workshop and had help from the locals in both building their facility and their flyer. /u/Hog_enthusiast doesn't know their own history. -.-
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u/Zee_WeeWee 13d ago
He knows his history fine, you both are just choosing to focus on which portion fits your narrative. It’s both true the locals rejected them AND a very small group of locals were vital to their success. Both are true
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u/theloudestshoutout 13d ago
Same thing with UPenn and the Moderna vaccine. The university terrorized that poor Eastern European scientist, she left for another position basically in disgrace and couldn’t take her patents with her. Guess who is trumpeting their involvement in billboards all over Philly. Seriously, fuck that noise. Also, I’m an alum so this is like.. reverse bias.
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u/YouTee 13d ago
What? I'd love to hear more about whatever you're talking about
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u/theloudestshoutout 13d ago
I haven’t listened to this specific podcast because the topic pisses me off, but I’m linking to this source because it’s hosted on a Penn server and from a Penn student. This can be the start of your Google rabbit hole, if you wish.
Fortunately Dr. Karikó has been acknowledged within her profession and she is now a wealthy woman. But it doesn’t make the coat-tail-riding any less outrageous.
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u/tatleoat 13d ago
I'm glad she at least got the final say on her legacy within her lifetime, but the fact people can still be punished for medical advances is crazy, it's primitive
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u/Killbot_Wants_Hug 13d ago
Grew up in NC.
Disliking new people with new ideas, that's pretty much spot on for NC. Guess that doesn't fit on a license plate though.
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u/absolutdrunk 13d ago
Isn’t there a special hatred for Ohioans? (As an Ohioan, I kinda get it bc there are tons of us that move down that way and we’re not sending our best.)
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u/PxyFreakingStx 13d ago
South Carolina. Idk about NC. Ohioans are famous, apparently, for vacationing in SC, and we drive them crazy.
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u/absolutdrunk 13d ago
Yeah, Myrtle Beach is a day’s drive from Ohio, whereas Florida is too far for that. So Ohioans flock to SC. I think it’s sort of SC for vacation, NC for a place to move with jobs that is also warm and coastal.
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u/psycho9365 13d ago
It was a rat hole in the early 80's when my Dad would go down there from Raleigh. It was a rat hole when I went down there as a teenager and it'll be a rat hole when my son invariably makes the journey in about 15 years.
If you wanna go to the beach you go somewhere else. Myrtle Beach is exclusively for doing hood-rat shit with your friends and that's okay.
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u/schnitzelfeffer 13d ago
It's actually possible to drive from Ohio to Florida in one day but I wouldn't recommend it
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u/sodalimefizz 13d ago
I did it when I was like 18, and the thought of doing it again sounds absolutely dreadful 20 years later.
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u/OskaMeijer 13d ago
Also grew up in NC, heard stuff like "If God wanted us to use fiberglass boats he would have made fiberglass trees."
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u/stfu_whale 13d ago
How dumb are these people? You could just as easily say that God gave us brains to figure out how to build fiberglass boats or make a plane.
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u/comfortablybum 13d ago
This is all wrong. The locals thought they were kooky, as did everyone who met them. They came to Kitty Hawk because the postman was one of the only ones to reply to their letters. He put them up and gave them a garage to work in. Locals helped move their plane and operate the camera for them. They came back for years. If the locals were so inhospitable why would they keep coming back? There are other places with hills and wind. Anyone would have had a hard time getting anything ferried to the island back then. It was so primitive down here. There is a good story about a rough voyage they took in a boat in the David McCullough book. They stayed in contact with families from the OBX for years even after they were international celebrities.
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u/7366241494 13d ago edited 13d ago
Dayton Ohio is the home of the Wright brothers, where they lived and ran their bicycle shop and performed wind tunnel experiments and built prototype gliders and eventually designed and built the plane. When it was time fly, they needed a flat area with consistently strong wind.
So they broke down the plane, put it on a train to North Carolina, then flew it, packed it back up, and came home to Dayton.
It’s sad that the great state of North Carolina doesn’t have anything better to brag about than stealing someone else’s thing. It’s probably just for tourist money right?
SouthwesternOhio is also home to John Glenn, the first American in orbit, and Neil Armstrong. Neil could fly a plane before he was old enough for a driver’s license, because flight culture had been here since the Wrights.65
u/beanthebean 13d ago
We moved to the Dayton area when I was a kid, you don't know how much I've learned about the wright brothers. My ex lived down the street from the wright brothers mansion (aka hawthorn hill, only Orville actually lived there because Wilbur died before it finished being built).
Dayton loves their inventions, claiming the airplane, cash register, step ladder, engine starters, pop tops for cans, and freon. There's a cool historical park/ museum about Dayton history and technology/inventions, and they have outdoor music and a brewery where they replicate historical brewing processes. Beer cheese, pretzels, sausages, sauerkraut, and sandwiches too.
I went so many times as a kid and kept going back by choice when I was older and still around cause it's a nice way to spend an afternoon.
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u/drumming102 13d ago
Carrollon park is a wonderful place. The whole area is ripe with Aviation history topped off with the Airforce Museum.
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u/Bjorn74 13d ago
Southwestern Ohio is also home to John Glenn
Cambridge is east of Zanesville.
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u/ArcDelver 13d ago
Hey man, them's fightin words. We have plenty of things but I think it was due to the cultural impact of flight that made choosing that more appealing. Personally, I'd prefer to celebrate Blackbeard and go with "Best in Piracy"
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u/No_One_Special_023 13d ago
Welcome to the history of the world. Almost every great inventor was shunned by their local community or country or state or whatever only for that community or country or state or whatever to be celebrating them when they succeed. People hate change until they see how the change helps them.
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u/CykoTom 13d ago
Ohio did all the work. NC had a beach.
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u/naugrim04 13d ago
As a Carolinian, hard agree. We don't congratulate the moon for hosting the moon landing.
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u/Reverie_39 13d ago
We associate NASA and space exploration with Florida, where the rockets launch. We don’t associate those things with places like Alabama, where the rockets were actually built. That is the real comparison.
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u/DevestatingAttack 13d ago
It's funny because Florida was chosen because it was contiguous with the lower 48 and it was near the equator. The closer you are to the equator, the less fuel you need to get into orbit. Florida was like Kitty Hawk for space flight - two locations chosen due entirely to engineering concerns.
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u/SuperSMT 13d ago
Alabama does get a lot of recognition, with the Huntsville center and all. But with NASA/space it's much harder to give one location all the credit since it was such a broad nationwide effort. Florida/the cape is a fair candidate for 'most important state' for space
The Wrights were exclusively Ohio until that one first flight
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u/RandomUser72 13d ago
The Wrights went to Kittyhawk because of the wind conditions there with the flat terrain. So, even the Wrights agreed, North Carolina blows.
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u/YoucantdothatonTV 13d ago
And isn’t Ohio a bit of a birthplace for rocketry? Goddard?
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u/tomalator 14d ago
France with the first aircraft (hot air balloon): Am I a joke to you?
Yes France, you are.
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u/karma_the_sequel 13d ago
OP said “flight,” not “float.”
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u/tomalator 13d ago
Good thing it's called lighter than air flight. The Wright Brothers were the first time achieve heavier than air flight.
Boats float, but don't fly.
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u/bawlsdeepinmilf 13d ago
Boats can fly they just need a little help to get up there, you'll see!
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u/tomalator 13d ago
With enough thrust, anything can fly. Me though, I don't need it. *pops collar*
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u/tracerhaha 13d ago
They were the first to achieve powered heavier than air flight.
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u/trucorsair 13d ago
Technically powered “controlled” flight. Afterall for a long time the Smithsonian disregarded the Wright Brothers over their in house choice Samuel Langley-who was coincidentally the Director of the Smithsonian…imagine that!
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u/DoublePostedBroski 13d ago
The Wright Brothers were literally born in Ohio hence “birthplace of aviation.”
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u/BisexualCactusNoises 13d ago
The Air and Space museum in Ohio is fucking amazing. For everything the state gets wrong, our museums are a superb experience.
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u/Theguesst 13d ago
Rock and roll hall of fame as well. The settings and everything about the place just screams with awe.
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u/scottspalding 13d ago
Bullshit, I went and most of the air and space was taken up by exhibits and people.
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u/Rrrrandle 13d ago
It's the National Museum of the United States Air Force, on the grounds of Wright Patterson AFB. 4 gigantic hangars full of planes and exhibits. And free.
It's a shame they didn't land one of the retired shuttles, but they did get some other cool stuff from the shuttle program you can see.
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u/dastufishsifutsad 13d ago
That’s not Wright-Patterson, correct? THAT place is amazing. And free!! Loved it.
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u/the_glutton 13d ago
The museum is at the wright-patt AFB, so you are correct. And I’ve always enjoyed that it’s free to the public. So many field trips there growing up!
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u/Winnipesaukee 13d ago
Jim Lovell, born in Cleveland, commander of Apollo 13, managed to set the record for furthest distance flown from his native state.
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u/UsedToHaveThisName 13d ago
I believe it is Lovell that is the human that has traveled furthest from earth based on where his seat was in the spacecraft.
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u/whattaUwant 13d ago
Ohio sent a man to the moon
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u/corrado33 13d ago
He wanted to get out of ohio so badly that he not only left the state, but also left the planet.
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u/rollingstoner215 13d ago
He got further from Ohio than anyone had gotten before, or has gotten since
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u/nye1387 13d ago
After being the first man in the moon, he could have gone anywhere in the world to do anything he wanted. But do you know what he did?
That's right—he went back to Ohio, and taught at the University of Cincinnati.
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u/alchemist5 13d ago
There's so many astronauts from Ohio, it's almost comical.
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u/DaRedditGuy11 13d ago edited 13d ago
Midwest in general. The Midwest universities were often on the cutting edge of sciences. It started with agriculture science revolution at the turn of the century - early genetic engineering, etc (in the form of selective breeding) and then built into other sciences.
Meanwhile, the “elite” New England schools were still focused on humanities and high arts. Knowing how to write poetry doesn’t fly a rocket!
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u/icecreammodel 13d ago
Sort of like how Alexander Graham Bell is claimed by Canada, Scotland, and the United States!
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u/case31 13d ago
It’s similar to how Illinois, Kentucky, and Indiana fight over Lincoln, and plaster it all over license plates, tourism fliers, and all that. Look kids, here’s a historical landmark! It says, “Abraham Lincoln took a dump here in 1827.”
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u/Adept_Floor_3494 13d ago
The entire midatlantic is like that with george washington
"George washington slept here"
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u/Supercontra2 13d ago
Lincoln’s birthplace-KY Lincoln’s Boyhood home-IN Land of Lincoln-IL Lincoln may have taken a dump in all three states!
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u/i_am_covered 13d ago
Isn’t.. the airplane on the license plate… backwards?
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u/Coach_Beard 13d ago
Not anymore, they fixed it.
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u/i_am_covered 13d ago
That is simply phenomenal. The one in the BBC article is fucked though, right?
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u/DoofusMagnus 13d ago
You're referring to the article that's literally about the fact that the plate was wrong?
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u/Stachemaster86 13d ago
So both were Wright. From what I’ve heard, two Wrights don’t make a wrong. Plane and simple.
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u/Covo 13d ago
Also Neil Armstrong and John Glenn were born in Ohio. Both hold aviation “firsts” as well.
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u/FuiyooohFox
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edited 13d ago
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Imagine someone designing, building, testing parts, refining everything at home. Then they decide to take it to a beach due to favorable wind conditions and the people who own the beach are like "yep, we're responsible for ALL of that".
North Carolina had a beach they wanted to use, that's literally it.
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u/Coach_Beard 13d ago •
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If I go to Burger King, order a no. 1 to go, bring it back home, and eat it, does that make my apartment the Home of the Whopper?
Hell no.
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u/ThisIsOurGoodTimes 13d ago
If you eat it in your car I think you could put home of the whopper as your license plate slogan
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u/Hog_enthusiast 13d ago
You forgot to include the part where the locals were openly hostile to the brothers and voiced their disapproval with the idea of human flight
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u/fattermcgee 14d ago
Literally the only thing NC contributed was wind
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u/otisthetowndrunk 14d ago
We also provided lots of sand. Much softer than hard ground when you crash.
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u/Quezavious 13d ago
On the other hand, it’s coarse and rough and irritating and it gets everywhere
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u/patchymoose 13d ago
The Outer Banks and sand dunes are a unique topographical feature of the state; I think your comment is needlessly dismissive. Florida is one of the main locations for spacecraft launches because of its unique geography, but I wouldn't say "literally the only thing it contributed to spaceflight is a peninsula."
Each state has unique features that gave them a role in our country's history, and I think it's neat to learn about them through these license plates, state quarters, etc.
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u/WhatIsTheAmplitude 13d ago
Two wrongs don’t make a right but two Wrights make an airplane
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u/KoolAidKendall 13d ago
I'm from North Carolina, and we actually consider it to be Michael Jordan who was "first in flight"
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u/SH43302 13d ago
I like the fact that the thumbnail is of the Wright Flyer flying backwards with a banner in the front. This made the news when the plates first came out and was hoping to snag one. They ended up changing them before being distributed.
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u/Nado1311 13d ago
Q: Where is the United States Air Force Museum located?
A: Dayton, OH
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u/dicky_seamus_614 13d ago
Same place the Roswell aliens were relocated to after they crashed in New Mexico
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u/Noppers 13d ago
That museum is amazing. Gives any of the Smithsonian museums a run for their money.
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u/CantFireMeIquit 13d ago
Sounds like the bullshit KY and Illinois goes through with the land of Lincoln and birthplace of Lincoln
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u/Tinkerer221 13d ago
When I was in 4th grade I moved from NC to a small town in Indiana mid year. I had a history quiz shortly after moving that included questions about the Wright brothers. I got nearly all of the questions wrong! That day I learned that "history" (aka lore) is taught differently in each state.
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u/Seel_Team_Six 13d ago
We in NC can also choose “first in freedom” for our license plates which is probably pretty confusing to black people
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u/ArtisanGeek 13d ago
Wright brothers didn’t just build it in Ohio, they had their own wind tunnel and designed the plane there. The other state just had a good windy space to launch.
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u/InncnceDstryr 13d ago
I can’t believe this is a thing so many people are mad about. If you’re one of them, maybe you need a snack and a nap.
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u/the_hell_you_say 14d ago edited 13d ago
They attended school in Cedar Rapids, Iowa, and the road to the airport there is named after them.
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u/udee79 14d ago
Both state quarters have the Wright flyer also.