r/unitedkingdom Jun 09 '23

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u/LJ-696 Jun 09 '23 edited Jun 09 '23

I don't think it matters what they identify as. I would be more concerned about the persons ability the same no matter who they are.

Edit) an individual can still request to be seen or not seen by xyz person the same today as it will be tomorrow.

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u/venuswasaflytrap Jun 09 '23

It doesn't matter to me personally, but that logic works the same with a male doctor inspecting a female patient.

In some cold hard logical sense, it shouldn't matter that he's male, but for some patients this would be a problem (for whatever reason - religion, trauma experience, whatever).

If we're going to respect the patients reasoning, it seems strange to not go by their reasoning in terms of what gender is.

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u/[deleted] Jun 09 '23

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u/venuswasaflytrap Jun 09 '23

That makes sense, and it's easy to say when the type of bigotry is not socially acceptable.

But would you say that highly religious Muslim women just need to suck it up and let a male doctor inspect her even though a female doctor is available?

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u/[deleted] Jun 09 '23 edited Aug 16 '23

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u/venuswasaflytrap Jun 09 '23

I would however make an exception for trauma victims

Why? And is non-stop religious indoctrination and/or bigoted upbringing not also a form of trauma?

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u/The_Bravinator Lancashire Jun 09 '23

This is absolutely a valid point. I've talked to a lot of Americans raised by fundies and a religious upbringing heavy on sexual shaming ABSOLUTELY can create a trauma response to those situations.

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u/venuswasaflytrap Jun 09 '23

Yeah, I'm just imagining someone fairly mentally tough, who's been through trauma, being asked "would you like to see a female doctor?" and them saying "It's all right if you don't have one, but yeah I think I'd prefer one".

and then another person, who's been through a very traumatic childhood and spent every day of their life being told that it's not at all okay for a male to see her naked, and that doing so will be literally the worst thing that can possibly happen - panicked and crying in the hospital being told "those are the rules and you get who you get [because you're a bigot]".

Seems so pointless.

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u/grey_hat_uk Cambridgeshire Jun 09 '23

But would you say that highly religious Muslim women just need to suck it up and let a male doctor inspect her even though a female doctor is available?

If something about the medical person makes the patent unconfutable then they have the right to ask, the medical professional has the right to say "me or no one". I'm not saying they should, it would depend on the situation, availability and skills.

It's the difference between "I'm not sure I would be happy with you doing this procedure is there someone else" and "I only want [colour/religion/sex/star-sign] looking at me."

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u/venuswasaflytrap Jun 09 '23

Yeah I totally agree. I think anyone can ask for anything - be it something super bigoted or even "I want the guy who likes metal music as much as me" and I think the medical practices should accommodate if they can, but shouldn't change hiring or rotation practices to accomodate.

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u/[deleted] Jun 09 '23

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u/omgu8mynewt Jun 09 '23

Many women, particularly from different but still religious conservative backgrounds, don't show their bodies to men outside their family. Is it bigotry if they choose to live their life like that? Some medical exams are very invasive and require a lot of trust, is it bigoted to make the patients experience as comfortable as possible?

What if it isn't a religious background, but a very young woman who could be examined by different Doctors, is it bigoted to assign the Doctor to make the experience as easy as possible for the patient?

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u/emefluence Jun 09 '23

There's a huge difference between an accommodation and a right. If carers want to make an accommodation for somebody then by all means let them, it's their choice, but thats very different from patients getting the right to make arbitrary demands about who treats them. You know how much extra nasty superstitious and racist bullshit that would introduce to their lives.

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u/DogfishDave East Yorkshire Jun 09 '23

To exactly the same extent I think that if an old man thought the female doctor was no good

What was your answer to the question though?

"would you say that highly religious Muslim women just need to suck it up and let a male doctor inspect her even though a female doctor is available?"

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u/[deleted] Jun 09 '23

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u/DogfishDave East Yorkshire Jun 09 '23

, but determining who should be allowed to be employed it is not a right that person should have,

Agreed, I think we're going a bit over-and-beyond with that.

they can refuse treatment

Of course.

just as the hypothetical racist chap can refuse treatment from the black doctor

No, it's not "just as", you're drawing a false equivalency. The vile old man saying "I don't want that BB near me" (we've all heard them) is entirely different from the religious woman who doesn't want to be examined by a male doctor.

but they cannot be influencing hiring or setting schedules.

You're entirely blinded by the needs of employment and schedules, and the idea that people asking for pastoral compassion are just the same as the racists.

You're in Middle Management, aren't you?

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u/[deleted] Jun 09 '23 edited Jun 16 '23

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u/venuswasaflytrap Jun 09 '23

To exactly the same extent I think that if an old man thought the female doctor was no good and asked for a proper doctor it might just be easier to let a colleague do it than argue the point.

So you wouldn't enforce the NHS rules? If they're not enforced in practice, what's the point

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u/AvatarIII West Sussex Jun 09 '23

If someone claimed their religion meant they could not be seen by a black doctor when a white doctor is available, do you think they should be allowed their request?

Or if a male patient claimed their religion meant they could not be seen by a male doctor?

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u/venuswasaflytrap Jun 09 '23

My view is that NHS hiring policies should be the same as anywhere else - which is to say, they should ignore gender, race, sex, and age when hiring.

So if you just randomly have a practice of all men, or all women or all whatever - that's just what happens.

But on the other side of the coin, doctors should be encouraged to make a case by case judgement, without changing hiring practices, using the resources they have to make the patient comfortable, regardless of how unreasonable the patient is.

i.e. if someone wants a white doctor, and a white doctor is available - why not? But if a white doctor isn't available, or trying to make the white/female/chinese doctor available more often causes organisational problems, then they get who they get.

I don't think it needs a rule. Doctors always do their best to make judgement calls to make the patients as comfortable as possible within reason. And hiring laws already protect protected classes of people.

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u/AvatarIII West Sussex Jun 09 '23

That's fair, but if a person demanded a specific doctor for a bigoted reason, that doctor should also be allowed to (and possibly be encouraged to) refuse to cede to their request.

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u/Coulm2137 County of Bristol Jun 09 '23

Simple scenario - a young girl broke her leg and need help with using a toilet. I am a nurse approaching 30 soon, male. Is she bigoted for requesting a female care assistant/ nurse to help her with her needs? I certainly don't think so

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u/[deleted] Jun 09 '23 edited Aug 09 '23

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u/[deleted] Jun 09 '23

Is it bigotry for a pregnant / birthing woman to feel uncomfortable with a male doctor touching in and around her vagina?

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u/cherylvandertunt Jun 09 '23

Wanting a medical professional of the same gender for intimate matters is not bigotry.

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u/Stepjamm Jun 09 '23

Am I bigoted for not wanting a male doctor to fondle my balls in a medical setting…?

That’s the catch-22 of inclusive 2023… you’re allowed to use a different bathroom if you want but to request a different doctor… is bigotry? What am I missing here? Both stem from discomfort.

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u/[deleted] Jun 09 '23 edited Aug 09 '23

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u/Mustard_The_Colonel Jun 09 '23 edited Jun 09 '23

What if OP was sexually asulted by the man in the past and feels uncomfortable with any man touching him because it brings back trauma?

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u/Cybugger Jun 09 '23

What?

Why?

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u/Stepjamm Jun 09 '23

So if I’m too self conscious to want other men touching my dick… I’m a bigot?

See this is why the woke movement loses credibility… you seem to accept people have personal requirements… until those requirements aren’t used to progress lgbt rights.

I don’t hate male doctors, I just don’t want men touching my dick haha… who knew ‘bigotry’ was as simple as me not wanting my dick touched by other men.

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u/[deleted] Jun 09 '23 edited Aug 09 '23

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u/00DEADBEEF The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland Jun 09 '23

Why is it so weird that different people may feel differently about which gender fondles their balls?

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u/[deleted] Jun 09 '23

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u/00DEADBEEF The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland Jun 09 '23 edited Jun 09 '23

It's not their primary function, no

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u/Reverend_Vader Jun 09 '23

My balls have always felt exactly the same whatever the gender of the doctor touching them, cold and wrinkled with a desire to go back in my pants asap

He's probably scared of getting a man boner

The irony as I've had to have lots of checks over the last few years, male doctors are quicker, and simply don't fuck about finding the problem, ergo, my preference is a male doctor.

Same with the prostate exams, no fucking about and fingers long enough to actually check properly.

Its reddit though, so you have to expect people expecting the world to revolve around them and their own "internalised" issues.

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u/MagnetoManectric Scotland Jun 09 '23

You're not crazy, people are being weird as fuck on this thread. I had no idea there was this much neurosis going around .

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u/Stepjamm Jun 09 '23

… are you kidding me?

Jesus Christ haha i love the double standards at play with all this new-age woke stuff.

Im literally not a bigot, but I’m still human with insecurities and you’re here telling me if i demand certain allowances because of my own insecurities… I’m a bigot?

I didn’t realise talking about something that men actually worry about would be seen as bigotry especially considering it’s talking about other people handling my genitals.

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u/Oooch Norwich Jun 09 '23

I’m too self conscious to want other men touching my dick

But you'll let a woman touch your dick?

That's hilariously childish

This is the most insecure in their sexuality take I've ever seen

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u/Stepjamm Jun 09 '23

Haha I love how much hatred hetero gets when applying “my body my rules” to a situation.

So if I want certain treatment based on how I identify… I’m a bigot? Careful how you apply that tar brush because sounds like you’re hating on insecure straight people more than taking a stand against people wanting treatment that makes them feel most at ease.

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u/The_Flurr Jun 09 '23

Except it has nothing to do with how you identify? Nobody is making fun of you for being straight. Most straight people aren't so insecure about this shit.

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u/Stepjamm Jun 09 '23

I identify as someone who feels uncomfortable with my dick being handled by other men.

Most people will have a preference as to who their body is inspected by, it’s actually hilarious to see how little compassion some people truly have to the personal feelings of others.

How can you tell me it’s not how I identify lmao, I don’t discredit the doctors abilities. I just don’t like it.

Do you have the same animosity towards people who want to use different bathrooms…? Or is their insecurity somehow less bigoted than mine?

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u/Oooch Norwich Jun 10 '23

It's weird as fuck our posts are marked as controversial and his posts aren't when he thinks its okay to demand women handle your male genitals

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u/[deleted] Jun 09 '23 edited Jun 16 '23

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u/Stepjamm Jun 09 '23

I didn’t say that though? I’m not saying men can’t examine balls - I’m saying I don’t like it haha and getting called a bigot.

Their ability to do a job is irrelevant if I’m uncomfortable and there is someone else qualified who doesn’t make me uncomfortable…

Gendered bathrooms are much more preference but if you called someone a bigot for not wanting to use a certain bathroom… despite there being plenty of qualified toilets in there….

Do you not see the dissonance?

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u/[deleted] Jun 09 '23

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u/Stepjamm Jun 09 '23

Well it’s not like I put a lot of thought into it but realistically that’s how I feel.

Why do I need to justify why I don’t want men touching my dick…? Our society is off the fucking rails if having a preference over my genitals is somehow bigotry lol.

I haven’t demanded men don’t do it, I haven’t said I would never let a man do it - I said I don’t want a man touching my dick and I wouldn’t be facing anywhere near as much criticism if I was making the same distinction regarding what toilet I want to go in.

It’s my body haha why should I just become a person who is happy for any one to touch my dick just to not be called a bigot…? Like genuinely it’s ridiculous that I can’t have an opinion on my own dick haha

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u/[deleted] Jun 09 '23

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u/Stepjamm Jun 09 '23

Based on prejudice?

So being uncomfortable with males touching my naked body is prejudice…

Damn, what happened to my body my rules.

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u/turbo_dude Jun 09 '23

What about a gynaecologist with no arms?

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u/___a1b1 Jun 09 '23 edited Jun 09 '23

Reddit seems to have gone insane over this. It's been standard practice since the NHS was founded for people in a vulnerable state to be offered a choice of staff, and now suddenly patients are supposed to shut up.

I had the rubber glove treatment at a GP and they made a point asked me if I wanted to swap doctors or to have a chaperone present. I'm an old lag and was perfectly happy with whoever got the short straw, but that is fairly uncommon. Now redditors think that there should be a choice, but not for certain staff because patients might be "wrong".

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u/TrumpGrabbedMyCat Jun 09 '23

Quite funny to read how not being comfortable with a woman juggling my balls is now bigoted. Or a woman not wanting a man to be groping her breasts is also bigoted.

Wild times.

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u/___a1b1 Jun 09 '23

I think people campaigning on this and the NHS itself have got themselves into a right Carla the elephant situation as objecting to this requires pretending either that the NHS hasn't separated by sex since it's founding because millions of people have a very strong cultural preference or that we acknowledge that preference and demand that we stamp it out so that a tiny number of staff are happy. The NHS seems to do the worst of both worlds where it acknowledges that it's common decency to work with this norm, but then decides to stamp on it for certain staff.

https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Brass_Eye

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u/opaldrop Jun 09 '23 edited Jun 09 '23

Patients have a right to refuse a doctor for any reason they want, including them being trans, if they identify them as being so. They also have a right to say "I don't want a trans doctor" in advance and to have that request respected.

They don't have, and in fact have never had - since trans people didn't suddenly come into existence five years ago, and there have actually been stealth trans doctors for decades - a right to obligate all members of a group to announce they are part of that group every time they see a patient.

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u/Blue_winged_yoshi Jun 09 '23

The important point to note here is that you can always request a change in doctor, you just can’t find out personal information about a doctor or nurse. So doctor/nurse X makes you uncomfortable for any reason speak up you’ll get the change you want! You just can’t pry into someone else’s life.

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u/LJ-696 Jun 09 '23

Thats a good way to put it.

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u/TheThiefMaster Darlington Jun 09 '23

Some people though insist on a same-sex (and gender) person for certain medical things for embarrassment reasons. In cases like that, I'd expect non-trans patients to want non-trans medical staff, and trans patients to ideally want trans medical staff (although that might be harder to satisfy).

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u/theredwoman95 Jun 09 '23

Except it's not like you can just ID transgender people on sight. That's kinda the fundamental "problem" of this whole thing - if you want to allow patients not to have trans doctors, then you're forcing medics to out themselves, placing them at risk of further abuse in a profession that already receives a ton.

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u/Jhe90 Jun 09 '23

Theirs some cases it might, those are particular cases. Theirs some more sensetive matters.

But for regular medical care, I Don,t care, just patch me up and fix what is broken.

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u/mildbeanburrito Jun 09 '23

WARNING: THIS COMMENT WAS MADE BY A TRANSGENDER


I mean, no? Why should they? If there needs to be a system whereby someone requests intimate care and a trans person shouldn't be that carer, then ok, have it be on the administrative side. I know in the past there has been case law about it being lawful for a trans woman to not be the one to conduct intimate searches of women as a police officer, it's not an insurmountable task.
But this idea that trans people should have no privacy whatsoever is getting really concerning.

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u/Cam2910 Jun 09 '23

The question that needs answering is, does a patients right to have someone of the same gender perform intimate care, extend to sexuality? And how do we factor changed genders into that question.

Personally, if I need intimate care, I don't care who's doing it so long as they're professional about it. Some people don't feel that way about it, which is understandable.

100% agree that the employees' privacy should be protected and the patients shouldn't need to know.

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u/[deleted] Jun 09 '23

Personally, if I need intimate care, I don't care who's doing it so long as they're professional about it. Some people don't feel that way about it, which is understandable.

I would prefer a woman to perform intimate care (I’m female).

I thought I was pretty relaxed about this kind of stuff in a medical setting (I’ve seen male gynaecologists before etc), but I was attended by male doctors when I gave birth and I felt utterly violated by it. It even surprised me tbh.

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u/Cam2910 Jun 09 '23

Perfectly understandable. Would you feel equally violated if it were a male who was born female or vice verse? Or a female who was gay?

It's a minefield of a line between patient feelings/rights and employees' rights to privacy.

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u/PatientCriticism0 Jun 09 '23

It's not a minefield, it's pretty settled actually. You can refuse care from any particular doctor already. If you suspect a doctor is trans or lesbian or Jewish and that upsets you, you can ask for another. You don't get to know if they are though, because it's none of your business.

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u/[deleted] Jun 09 '23

I mean there’s so many shades of grey here aren’t there.

If the hospital has lied about providing an all-female team, that’s an issue. They shouldn’t be lying to patients.

But… I warrant that in some scenarios you may just not be able to tell. And then I suppose… no harm done in a way, if you’re none the wiser anyway. You felt comfortable, and that’s what’s important.

It seems to present a bit of a trust issue to me if the hospital lies to a patient who has requested a female team due to previous sexual trauma, because they prioritise their staff member’s gender identity.

I also think that for many people the difference between ‘I identify as X but haven’t medically transitioned’ vs ‘I identify as X and have lived like this for 20 years, have had SRS’ etc are very different.

I don’t think it’s relevant to know your doctors gender identity in situations which do not involve intimate care and a female team has been requested however.

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u/Cam2910 Jun 09 '23

I don’t think it’s relevant to know your doctors gender identity in situations which do not involve intimate care and a female team has been requested however.

Non intimate care is a no brainer. The only reason gender/sexuality comes into that is if the patient is a bigot.

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u/[deleted] Jun 09 '23

Yeah that is unreasonable discrimination.

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u/GroktheFnords Jun 09 '23

If the hospital has lied about providing an all-female team, that’s an issue.

Simple solution, they can just tell them it's an all-women team.

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u/raininfordays Jun 09 '23 edited Jun 09 '23

Would you be happy being seen by a transgender man who was AFAB?

Edit: to clarify on the ask, genuinely curious if you'd be uncomfortable just in how they present, if you'd be uncomfortable only with a man / transman doc, or if you'd also be uncomfortable with a transwoman doctor.

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u/Nadamir Ireland Jun 09 '23

I had this discussion with a female friend of mine.

She told me that one of the reasons women prefer women gynos is because it helps when they personally know what you could be going through physically, in which case a trans man would quite possibly fit the bill.

On the other hand, another reason is because they personally know what you go through socially (being dismissed by doctors, the stresses of misogyny, etc), which may be harder for a trans man to relate to depending on when he transitioned. A trans woman on the other hand, could quite possibly relate to that, despite maybe not having the same physical parts.

She said that women also tend to prefer women therapists for the second reason.

In the end, the conclusion that she came to was that you should meet them and decide, just like you do with all doctors.

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u/raininfordays Jun 09 '23

Thanks for the thought out response and sharing. Completely agree with the last point especially. Sometimes people's demeanor just makes you feel uncomfortable, or the way they talk to you, and that likely comes down to similarities with past people I guess.

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u/ben_db Hampshire Jun 09 '23

Curious, would you be more comfortable with a lesbian woman, or a gay man?

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u/vishnoo Jun 09 '23

Your feelings are valid and don't let anyone guilt you into feeling otherwise.
I know someone who (in real time) decided she did not want the male doctor to come into the room,
when the midwife insisted that the doctor must sign off on the monitor printout, the compromise was that he will do this when she (the woman giving birth) went to the bathroom.

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u/LtnSkyRockets Jun 09 '23

For your question - I would say yes. A patient does have a right to decide who they allow to provide intimate care to them. I personally don't care, but I recognise that a male may only want another male/ or only a female/or only someone straight dealing with intimate care etc etc.

There are ways this can be done without invalidating employee privacy either. As employees have just as much right to privacy as patients do in regards to who treat them.

It can be dealt with administratively. When the patient is booking, they can be asked if they have preferences for their care. They can then be assigned the medical staff that best fit the patient.

For emergency care, a statement can just be made to people calling the service that 'as this is an emergency service you will be sent the next available medic. We are unable to accommodate patient preferences.'

The real struggle is not having enough medical staff to run our services.

The idea that the NHS would tell patients the gender/sexuality of staff is really weird, to me.

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u/pappyon Jun 09 '23

That question is referenced in the article. Yes they do have that right when it comes to intimate care.

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u/Josquius Durham Jun 09 '23

You have the right to have any doctor you want. If you want explicitly a 50 year old Jamaican male doctor then its totally your rights to go seek him out and pay to see him. Kind of a weird criteria I'd say- competence is more important- but its pretty standard in places with free for all medical systems that people pick and choose their doctors.

However the NHS is a fundamental public service. Its not a luxury. You get what is convenient and your choices are limited. By demanding the right to choose at a high level, though it sounds lovely and nice for you, you're fucking things up for everyone else by adding an unnecessary complication to the rota.

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u/FreddieDoes40k Jun 09 '23

But this idea that trans people should have no privacy whatsoever is getting really concerning.

The bigots hate that homosexuality is now mostly publicly acceptable, so they chose a new target for their irrational paranoia.

Privacy is reserved for humans in their eyes and they love to dehumanise targets.

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u/Conscious-Ball8373 Jun 09 '23

I think in theory "keep it on the administrative side" is the right answer. In practice, healthcare doesn't work that way. It's perfectly normal for a male ED doctor who needs to insert a catheter into a woman to say, "I can do this now but if you'd prefer I can find a female member of staff; you'll have to wait a bit." The patient has to make a decision then and there. There are a lot of ways this can go badly wrong if the patient later found out the doctor was trans.

Whether this is a removal of privacy from trans people depends rather on how you look at it. Looked at one way, we have a fundamental assumption that we know the sex of people we're interacting with. That's not a sense that's 100% accurate but getting it wrong is a cause of near-overwhelming social embarrassment. It's not obvious that trans-people should be exempt from that assumption, at least in cases (like this) where someone's sex really matters.

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u/mildbeanburrito Jun 09 '23

Whether this is a removal of privacy from trans people depends rather on how you look at it. Looked at one way, we have a fundamental assumption that we know the sex of people we're interacting with. That's not a sense that's 100% accurate but getting it wrong is a cause of near-overwhelming social embarrassment. It's not obvious that trans-people should be exempt from that assumption, at least in cases (like this) where someone's sex really matters.

People make a lot of assumptions, but being incorrect doesn't mean that you have a right to know. If you're working with someone and they mention their partner, you don't have a right to know whether or not they're gay, and if they choose not to disclose that they're gay you are not being slighted.
As I mentioned, if there is a genuine need such as for intimate care, then ok, perhaps there should be a system and it should be done by the administration staff of the hospital/ward, but the positions raised in the article seem to be coming from a position that no matter the context, trans people working in the NHS must be outed. Not only is that unnecessary, but it's also overlooking the effect that'd have on trans people (e.g. there was a case not too long ago that a trans woman in the NHS was subject to extensive harassment by her fellow staff), and it's a worrying attitude at large. If the practice of outing trans people regardless of any legitimate need is standard, that's something that affects every trans person in the country. I work a desk job that is so impersonal that I barely know anything about my coworkers I have so little interaction with them. Why should everyone know that I'm trans? After all, I exert some degree of professional influence over several younger employees, if I'm so dangerous then surely they have a right to know that they're in the presence of one of those spooky transgenders, no?

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u/faroffland Jun 09 '23 edited Jun 09 '23

You’re right this should just be an admin issue. If you need a specific sex of doctor, surely you request that when making your appointment. So the issue of someone being trans should never come up or needing to ‘confirm’ if someone’s trans should never come up. If you aren’t comfortable with a certain category of person treating you, it’s on you to state that on the making of an appointment (or with reception when arriving to said appointment).

It just seems like a non-issue. Some women want women with female anatomy to perform certain types of healthcare and that’s ok - some men probably want men with male anatomy too and again that’s ok. It’s on the patient to specify that in the first place and then the healthcare place to provide that.

But I don’t think that’s a crazy request either and I do think people should be allowed to request a certain sex when having treatments that are ‘intimate’. I personally don’t have an issue with ANYONE treating me but I’m not a victim of sexual abuse or anything else. For me it’s a case of ‘are they qualified, ok then I’ll have the treatment’ but for others it can be harmful to their mental health.

It sounds OTT but sexual abuse is no joke and can lead to a lot of trauma for people. So I don’t think it’s for me or anyone else to tell others what they should/shouldn’t be comfortable with, particularly when some men and women do have trauma, and particularly when related to healthcare for their own bodies. Staff should not feel violated by their patient, but neither should the patient feel violated by staff - which can be the case when there is a history of trauma.

We can keep people’s privacy whilst also allowing the patient to have (reasonable) requests about their own healthcare. It really doesn’t need to be complicated.

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u/Rmtcts Jun 09 '23

Why would the employers know the trans status of the doctor? Considering a third of employers will openly say they don't want to hire a transgender person, there's a large incentive for trans people to keep quiet, are employers supposed to investigate the sex and genitals of their employees?

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u/faroffland Jun 09 '23 edited Jun 09 '23

I guess they wouldn’t so it’s by no means a perfect system - but that’s not a new thing. People have been requesting female or male doctors for years and on occasion might have been treated by a trans person. Trans people have always quietly existed in society. But that’s the same issue it always has been so nothing has changed so again, it’s really a non-issue - people can request a certain sex of doctor and employers can provide that to the best of their ability. If people are passing as female or male at work, to the best of the employers knowledge they are male or female and will be provided as such. If someone is openly trans, they just won’t be provided to the small minority of people who request a specific sex. Again it doesn’t have to be complicated, it’s just the same as it always has been.

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u/WhyShouldIListen Jun 09 '23

Considering a third of employers will openly say they don't want to hire a transgender person

Is there some survey behind that? I'd be interested in reading it

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u/Dugg Lancashire Jun 09 '23

But this idea that trans people should have no privacy whatsoever is getting really concerning.

Lets be real here (on this specific topic) the right to privacy here is exactly the same for everyone.

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u/PatientCriticism0 Jun 09 '23

Correct, nobody has the right to know whether any particular person is trans or not.

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u/BaBaFiCo Jun 09 '23

No different to knowing their sexuality or other irrelevant pieces of personal information.

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u/jackedtradie Jun 09 '23 edited Jun 09 '23

Why is the NHS warning us?

I’ve no concern what’s between your legs or what you identify as. I don’t even care what you look like. If I really need treatment, I don’t even care if your a racist. Just keep me not dead please

Edit : I’ve had like 20 replies to this and only 1 isn’t hidden. Crazy

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u/pappyon Jun 09 '23

I don’t think they are, that’s just the DM stirring up fear and loathing against a minority. Par for the course!

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u/windy906 Cornwall Jun 09 '23

Dusting out all their stories about gay people from the 80s and doing a find replace.

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u/kirkum2020 Hereford Jun 09 '23

80s?

The DM were gleeful at the prospect of literally genociding us right up the the late 90s.

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u/crapwittyname Scouser in exile Jun 09 '23

'warns' is the Daily Mail's choice of word.

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u/debating109 Jun 09 '23

Terfs wont be happy until all transgender women have to wear a badge constantly reminding themselves and the world of their birth sex.

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u/WhapXI York Jun 09 '23

And transgender men simply do not exist at all and all just identify as butch lesbians.

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u/AxiosXiphos Jun 09 '23

Lets be brutally honest - Terfs won't truly be happy until being transgender is illegal in some form.

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u/mittfh West Midlands Jun 09 '23

Which some US states are rapidly moving towards: some have already prohibited trans-related healthcare at any age, some have declared that performative works undertaken while crossdressed count as "Adult Entertainment" and should only be held in venues inaccessible to children (so covering not just drag shows but several Shakespeare plays and pantomimes), and some would ideally like to (a) prohibit changes to legal sex, (b) ignore the legal sex of anyone who has changed it, and (c) explicitly state that all single gender facilities should be accessible only to those with a matching AGAB, regardless of when the person transitioned, how "passable" they are, or if they've had GCS.

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u/Wissam24 Greater London Jun 09 '23

Maybe some sort of yellow star

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u/Panda_hat Jun 09 '23

Bold of you to assume that is where they would stop.

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u/colin_staples Jun 09 '23

What the fuck difference does it make?

Are they a qualified doctor? Are they going to do their best to make me better? That's all that should matter.

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u/bacon_cake Dorset Jun 09 '23

I must see written confirmation of a doctors genitals before they treat me.

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u/Tundur Jun 09 '23

Mr Edwards I have ASKED you to wipe down the photocopier after gender-confirmation usage.

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u/Conscious-Ball8373 Jun 09 '23

Are they a qualified midwife? Are they inserting a catheter? Are they putting two fingers into a vagina to assess how dilated a cervix is?

There are certainly many scenarios where it makes no difference. There are other scenarios where it does.

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u/WhapXI York Jun 09 '23

Midwives, nurses, and gynaes don't practice on themselves. Female nurses catheterise as many penises as they do vaginas. What an odd notion, that your gender identity should disqualify you from practicing medicine on the opposite sex when sexuality and even having the "correct" gender identity would not.

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u/Conscious-Ball8373 Jun 09 '23

Well, whether you think it's odd or not, it's how medicine is practised. Medics do things to patients with their informed consent and, for many procedures, that includes asking whether the patient is comfortable with that particular medic doing it given their sex.

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u/JayneLut Wales Jun 09 '23

I thought it was standard practice to ask regardless? Certainly my experience. And they will also ask if you want a chaperone.

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u/dyinginsect Jun 09 '23

It's an odd notion that people should want certain types of care provided by people of the same anatomy of them?

I can learn to catheterise a penis and do it thousands of times but never once will I actually have any idea what it feels like to have a penis catheterised, because I don't have one

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u/gemgem1985 Jun 09 '23

Haaaaaa!! Ffs, plenty of male midwives do exactly that everyday...

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u/AnyHolesAGoal Jun 09 '23

Yes, but currently patients can request a female midwife, and I don't particularly have a problem with that.

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u/gemgem1985 Jun 09 '23

If a woman walked into the room and you said "no sorry I need proof you are a woman" do you think that should be respected?

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u/[deleted] Jun 09 '23

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u/gemgem1985 Jun 09 '23

To the person who replied "with the informed consent" of patients.... Erm, no if someone looks like a.dude and I assume they are a dude, they might not always be a dude... In what way is "they pass" informed consent!?

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u/Stubbs94 Ireland Jun 09 '23

Many cis women can look like they're men.

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u/Conscious-Ball8373 Jun 09 '23

Yes, but - and I feel this is the very important point you've overlooked - they do it with the informed consent of their patients.

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u/___a1b1 Jun 09 '23

Considering there's only 106 (vs 22,000+) registered in the entire country, "plenty" is being stretched worse than what an obese set of quintuplets does to a mum's tubing.

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u/PatientCriticism0 Jun 09 '23

What marker should we use for trans doctors?

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u/Panda_hat Jun 09 '23

You what?

Medical professionals are trained for those things, personal posession of certain biological organs has literally nothing to do with it.

Do you think there are no male gynaecologists or midwives, or male doctors that deal with childbirth?

Honestly just what?

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u/AnyHolesAGoal Jun 09 '23

I can certainly understand why someone may want to talk through a uterus issue with someone who has a uterus for example, as they are more likely to have direct experience of uterus pain and other relevant experiences.

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u/Emsicals Jun 09 '23

When I was pregnant I had a bleed and ended up in the hospital. I had to be examined internally by a male consultant. It was an uncomfortable experience that made me feel vulnerable, but I accepted it because my baby's health was more important.

However, at no point was I asked if this was OK, which is concerning. I was in a heightened state of anxiety at the time which made me more vulnerable.

I think men and women really do need to have the ability to request a same sex practitioner for certain interventions such as the one I underwent. Unless you have been in that position, I don't think you can really understand how vulnerable you can feel. I imagine for anyone who has been sexually abused, this would be even worse.

That being said, there's also no need for a patient to know the history of their health care providers. If a woman requests a female doctor, then send Jane, the female, instead of Sue, the trans woman. If only Sue is available then the patient needs to be told that their request isn't possible.

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u/[deleted] Jun 09 '23

I think being pregnant / giving birth is one of the best examples in understanding how vulnerable you can feel, and what ‘intimate examinations / care’ might look like.

Endless people feeling around and inside your genitals, poking about - while you are at basically the most vulnerable you will ever be in your life.

It’s absolutely grim, and some random man entering the room and saying ‘hello do you mind if I take a look’ before he sticks his hand in your vagina, to then never be seen again, leaves a lot of women feeling very, very uncomfortable.

It’s of no surprise many women request female doctors for these kinds of examinations.

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u/Freddichio Jun 09 '23

Very true, and also something I'd say the average Redditor doesn't have much experience in - Reddit as a whole tends to skew both young and male and thus will be less experienced in "personal" medical operations.

It’s of no surprise many women request female doctors for these kinds of examinations.

In this case, would you be happy with a FtM Trans person or a MtF? One presents as the right gender, but one has the right sex at birth.

I would think a MtF Trans person would be better (so you don't feel like a random man has gone in and groped you) but if people are wanting to know whether the medic is transgender that implies they care more about sex at birth than gender?

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u/changhyun Jun 09 '23

Reddit as a whole tends to skew both young and male and thus will be less experienced in "personal" medical operations.

I think this is why so many people in this post cannot conceive of a scenario where they might feel vulnerable around a medical provider of the opposite sex. An older man, for example, is more likely to have experience of receiving a prostate examination - and I know many men prefer that examination be delivered by a male provider because they feel uncomfortable having a woman do it, which is perfectly fine and reasonable.

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u/marquis_de_ersatz Jun 09 '23

Yes people think this only goes one way but actually a lot of older men would like personal care from male nurses and they can't get it because they don't exist in enough numbers.

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u/___a1b1 Jun 09 '23

There's also a real fear in a lot of NHS settings that you will as a patient be 'punished' by the staff for complaining so the power imbalance really should never rely on a patient having the strength to advocate for themselves.

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u/dyinginsect Jun 09 '23

An awful lot of people in this thread would have real trouble getting professional registration if they espoused the views they have shared here when applying. "Who fucking cares how the patient feels they aren't what matters here" seems to be the prevailing viewpoint.

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u/___a1b1 Jun 09 '23 edited Jun 09 '23

Honestly I don't think they believe it hence the belligerence as it's a distraction technique to be aggressive. They know that their own position doesn't stand up and no doubt have mothers and grandmothers who want a female medic if they can and I bet many themselves would be on here ranting if their GP behaved in the way that they pretend they agree with to them personally, but the done thing is to demand that society re-models itself for trans people above all else so they come up with positions that don't stand up.

The NHS has a pretty good process now for male/female situations. If there's an option then as a pro you ask the patient what they are comfortable with, if there isn't an option then you offer other things to mitigate their worry (like a chaperone). It's just like the SNP and prisons the NHS has waded into ideological position that runs contrary to their own practice and it's got them in a mess.

edit;typo

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u/Emsicals Jun 09 '23

In my case he didn't speak to me at all. Just marched in and the nurse told me what was going to happen. His bed side manner was somewhat lacking!

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u/2ABB Jun 09 '23

That being said, there’s also no need for a patient to know the history of their health care providers. If a woman requests a female doctor, then send Jane, the female, instead of Sue, the trans woman. If only Sue is available then the patient needs to be told that their request isn’t possible.

I feel like this is the best solution as well. Keeps the doctors information confidential and ensures the patient is comfortable.

Bizarre that some people can’t comprehend these delicate situations you might want a same-sex or opposite-sex doctor for.

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u/vishnoo Jun 09 '23

this isn't even a general statement.

can we recognise that women are MORE vulnerable. and that their preference of a same sex doctor DURING CHILDBIRTH is nothing like any feeling any man might have ever?

a woman doctor checking your genitals, and you getting an erection is at worst embarrassing - not threatening .

(and I guess this is goodbye, because I'll probably get banned for this.)

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u/vishnoo Jun 09 '23

some hospitals have a procedure, where if the midwife reports that the woman told her she was sexually abused before, and then the whole team is automatically female.

trans rights ARE human rights,
but guess what, so are women's rights.

and in case there is a clash, I am in favour of preferring the more vulnerable person in the situation, in the case of childbirth, it is the woman giving birth.

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u/marquis_de_ersatz Jun 09 '23

Giving birth is really just a horrid experience and a lot of women's fears around all of this could be helped if we improved the whole standard of care around labour and delivery. It's still pretty barbaric out there. I actually think -unless you are religious- it's not really the gender that's the problem it's the much larger lack of continuous care, lack of trust etc.. like, if people got to meet their midwife before they walk in the door as they are already in labour, well that would solve the problem of are you going to accept this person's care much earlier.

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u/GroktheFnords Jun 09 '23 edited Jun 09 '23

If a woman requests a female doctor, then send Jane, the female, instead of Sue, the trans woman. If only Sue is available then the patient needs to be told that their request isn't possible.

So you'd want the hospital to automatically out Sue to you as being transgender?

Imagine if a patient told hospital staff that he didn't want a gay man treating him and the only member of staff they had available was a gay man, would you argue that it's acceptable for the hospital to tell him that it wasn't possible to fulfill his request and then send in the gay man? Because this would immediately out him to the patient wouldn't it?

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u/Emsicals Jun 09 '23

Why would they need to be outed? Have you been in a hospital? I wouldn't have a clue which member of staff would be qualified to carry out certain tasks and who wouldn't.

I don't think your example has equal merit. People generally feel more comfortable having intimate internal exams by people of the same sex. That isn't a bad thing and should be respected, even if it can't be facilitated.

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u/GroktheFnords Jun 09 '23

Why would they need to be outed? 

Because if the patient says "I would like to be treated by a female nurse" and the hospital comes back and tells them they have no female nurse and then sends in Sue this automatically outs Sue as being transgender doesn't it?

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u/changhyun Jun 09 '23

Suggestion: Say "We'll do our best to accommodate your request but please be aware that it may not be possible depending on who's available."

And then do exactly that. That way if Sue is sent in, the patient hasn't been told one way or the other if the hospital considers Sue female.

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u/GroktheFnords Jun 09 '23

I think that's pretty much what the NHS is saying their approach is.

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u/[deleted] Jun 09 '23

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u/airtraq Jun 09 '23

From doctors’ perspective, it’s all very well accommodating every little frivolous requests from patients during the day time but at night there’s is only one registrar and an senior house officer for each specialty. It’s just not feasible.

In my own specialty, there was one time many years ago I was asked by a patient in the middle of the night if a female doctor could do the procedure. My senior house officer was male and so was my consultant. She was dying so we had no choice but to apologise and crack on.

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u/cc-test Jun 09 '23

Why is this sub still allowing the Daily Mail to be considered a reliable news source?

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u/EpicFishFingers Suffolk County Jun 09 '23

In fairness, it's a dig at the DM to share it: "look at the utterly inconsequential shite that DM considers newsworthy"

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u/Nurgus Jun 09 '23

Screenshot the garbage, don't link to it

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u/AnyHolesAGoal Jun 09 '23

The source isn't hidden, if people want to downvote it, they will.

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u/[deleted] Jun 09 '23

I think it’s irrelevant in most scenarios.

The gender identity, much like the sex, of my doctor doesn’t matter if we are dealing with a broken leg, or an eye infection, or immunisations etc etc.

The only scenario in which it could be relevant is in providing intimate procedures / care, if the patient has requested eg a female doctor.

In this example you should be provided with someone of the requested sex.

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u/Ardashasaur Jun 09 '23

In this example you should be provided with someone of the requested sex.

Well you could still get weird scenarios. Like you request a female but you get a trans-man is that suitable?

I'm guessing probably not, and maybe patients should just be able to request for another staff member if they are uncomfortable for whatever reason when it comes to intimate areas. Will get people requesting because of racism, sexism, etcism but they may be comfortable at least, even though they have to wait longer.

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u/vishnoo Jun 09 '23

a woman during childbirth shouldn't have to "litigate"

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u/mitchanium Jun 09 '23

I still recall what an MP said in parliament discussions regarding allowing gays to serve on the frontline (this was said about 25yrs ago so apologies for the terminology referenced): 'i'd rather a queer that can shoot straight, rather than a straight who shoots queer'

The same analogy applies here too, why does it matter what gender staff are if they're doing their jobs!?!

Their gender is their business, and theirs alone.

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u/Uniform764 Yorkshire Jun 09 '23

Because their job will involve things like intimate examination and many people (men and women) are uncomfortable with someone of the opposite sex carrying out such examinations for a variety of reasons.

Yeah if they're looking in your ear it's probably not that relevant, but if they're sticking a catheter in it's a bit more of sn issue.

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u/theredwoman95 Jun 09 '23

I suppose my question is then - are you forcing medical staff to out themselves? Because most trans people can't just be IDed as trans off the street.

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u/Aiyon Jun 09 '23

Excuse me, Doctor? Before you stitch up my leg wound, I need to know… what genitalia were you born with?

I snark about pink triangles on these threads but I honestly believe at this point that that’s the only way these people will be satisfied.

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u/MrPuddington2 Jun 09 '23

That is the best comment so far. "And could I please have a look at your genitals, just to be sure?" /s

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u/Death_God_Ryuk South-West UK Jun 09 '23

"Oh, I see, you want a Dr who was female at birth. Of course."

Sends in the trans male Dr

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u/discerning_kerning Jun 09 '23

Anti-trans bigots don't really seem to be aware that trans men exist (and exist at about the same rate as trans woman).

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u/PlayerHeadcase Jun 09 '23

Dogwhistling from the Daily Heil???!!?? Amazing times.

Seriously, you as a patient have no rights to knowimg if your "medic" is straight, gay trans, in their 50s , live in Birmingham, have false teeth or wipe their arse with their left hand. What the actual fuck does any of that matter to someone getting medical treatment?

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u/Kijamon Jun 09 '23

Having had a finger up my arse by a male and a female GP you can rest assured that it was an equally horrible experience for everyone involved regardless of genitals.

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u/3adLuck Jun 09 '23

I had no idea you could reject a doctor or nurse based on gender but there are lots of people who claim so in this thread. I'm wondering if you can reject them based on the girth of their fingers.

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u/AxiosXiphos Jun 09 '23

Yeah this is exactly the point. No one is enjoying the experience, in fact the doctors are the ones actively performing these actions - but they do it the save lives.

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u/360Saturn Jun 09 '23

I for one look forward to the day when I wake up and the completely manufactured transgender moral panic - the likes of which we in this country used to mock Americans about - has passed and we've closed the book on it.

Watch old episodes of Big Brother etc. and trans contestants are there sharing rooms with other folk of the same gender and no-one bats an eye. This is a totally astroturfed (astroterfed?) debate that has oh-so coincidentally arisen at the same time as the architects of it have sought either fame or political power and influence through that old chestnut, fear and the creation of an external enemy.

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u/3adLuck Jun 09 '23

if you ever need cheering up theres good video of Graham Linehan crying about his wife and friends leaving him because he's been sucked into the terf echo chamber. the people who spread this bigotry are horrible and dangerous, but they're also deeply pathetic and unhappy.

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u/Lazypole Tyne and Wear Jun 09 '23

If you die due to rejecting medical care because of trans issues holy fuck do you deserve a Darwin award.

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u/MTFUandPedal European Union Jun 09 '23

This gets interesting when two conflicting demands start fighting it out when the NHS is trying to accommodate both of them.

There is a policy to try and acquiesce to demands for specific sex staff. Some reasons may be reasonable, others, less so.

If, for whatever reason, you are very uncomfortable receiving care or treatment from a member of the opposite sex, you may make a request to see a clinician of the same sex.

Source - NHS

https://www.royalberkshire.nhs.uk/media/abedmrz4/requesting-same-sex-health-care-professionals_sep21.pdf

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u/Random_Brit_ Jun 09 '23

I'm a straight male who has been in and out of hospital a fair bit, so have had to have intimate care a few times.

My preference would be another straight male, but I've had a gay male and women also providing that kind of care. While it wasn't my preference everyone was professional about what they did, I wasn't offended or anything so just got on with it.

That's me, but some people might have stronger opinions/preferences.

Sometimes I've been unconscious and needed intimate care. That raises an interesting question of does it even matter about who cared for me when I have no recollection at all.

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u/Jazzlike_Mountain_51 Jun 09 '23

I get that a straight make is your preference but how would you know if the guy checking your nutsack is gay? Like are we supposed to request practitioners disclose private information like their sexuality because some people have stronger opinions? That sounds like a bullshit expectation

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u/Random_Brit_ Jun 09 '23

The gay male who provided intimate care (including my nutsack) was obviously gay from his mannerisms, but I wasn't bothered, we had countless chats about other non sexual parts of life.

I was just happy to be cared for by a team that had saved my life.

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u/Jazzlike_Mountain_51 Jun 09 '23

Let me clarify. I didn't mean you since you were obviously cool with it but you did say there's people with stronger opinions. And if they are not comfortable with a gay man examining then there are several issues:

  1. Not all gay men are effeminate or "visibly gay"
  2. Not all effeminate men are gay
  3. Not all gay men are out or comfortable disclosing this information to their employer.

So there is no way to accommodate this stronger preference without infringing on the privacy of the practitioners. Same goes for being trans.

This also opens up routes for harassment because practitioners who might not look straight enough or cis enough will undoubtedly catch strays like the in every other such "debate".

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u/Now_Wait-4-Last_Year Jun 09 '23

The two campest clinicians I've ever worked with if we're talking stereotypical behaviour, mannerisms, voice, pictures of the royal family pasted all around their desk in one case were both men married to women and had kids. One of them even asked if I'd like to meet their daughter. Never assumed anything either way about them prior to finding out their marital statuses. Just goes to show you can ultimately never know for sure.

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u/Death_God_Ryuk South-West UK Jun 09 '23

I imagine working in a hospital must be quite a turn off. I wonder if that filters through to personal life too - you've seen enough naked bodies and it reminds you of work so is a bit off-putting.

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u/HeadBat1863 Yorkshire Jun 09 '23

I'm more interested in medics being able to do their job whilst being rested enough and paid enough than I am in what toilet they want to use.

Especially if I'm the one bleeding out on the floor.

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u/Ironfields Jun 09 '23

And the right wing gutter press obsession with trans people continues.

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u/dalehitchy Jun 09 '23

Ridiculous that the DM is stirring this shit up. The article probably has 10000x the actual number of trans nurses and doctors. I'd be interested in knowing the actual amount of trans people in nurse and doctor roles (not admin roles) I wouldn't be surprised if it's in the single digits.

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u/spiraldinosaur Expat (DE) Jun 09 '23

"NHS warns" as if something bad could come of it somehow.

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u/Agreeable_Falcon1044 Jun 09 '23

Quite right. Save my life, get me back on track...I don't care what religion, race, gender, orientation, political persuasion you may have. That's none of my business.

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u/Ivashkin Jun 09 '23

It says that people with dementia ‘should still be challenged’ if they express discriminatory views about transgender doctors or nurses

Their brains are literally dying, what good is a lecture on modern gender identity going to do for someone who can't recall what year it is and may not be able to recognize their kids?

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u/Daedelous2k Scotland Jun 09 '23

I don't give a fuck what they are so long as they do a job properly.

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u/BadWhippet Suffolk Jun 09 '23

I don't think patients DO have a right to know.

But this is not insurmountable. Simply have an opt-in service where patients can have on their records their choice of gender care professional if they feel that strongly about it. Trans would be a grey area because you could argue for gender at birth or true gender, but the NHS could simply just make sure people who really would be very troubled would just be assigned to care professionals who have always been identified as that patient's chosen gender only.

That way, everybody wins. Patients who have experienced trauma from a particular gender will not be booked to see anyone of that gender. The fact you would have to opt in would probably mean most people would re-evaluate and not bother at all. But the choice would be there for those who confidentially wanted to record that choice - without anyone's gender-at-birth ever being made public, because that is nobody else's business.

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u/GroktheFnords Jun 09 '23

I can't believe people are even arguing this. Can you imagine if the NHS automatically outed gay medics to patients in case they have a problem with gay people?

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u/FelisCantabrigiensis Jun 09 '23

You don’t have the right to know if the person treating you is gay or bisexual, either. Or what religion they may practice. Or other personal details.

That is because people are entitled to privacy and it is irrelevant.

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u/DadofJackJack Jun 09 '23

If I’ve or family members or friend been involved in an accident and hurt then it’s whoever can give best care possible. That person can be black, white, brown, green, gay, straight, transgender, it doesn’t matter. If that’s best person then that’s best person.

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u/bakedtatoandcheese Jun 09 '23

Can’t imagine being so bigoted I’m willing to risk my health due to what’s in somebody’s underwear.

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u/philomathie Jun 09 '23

Why does this article have 12k upvotes? It should have been downvoted into oblivion.

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u/Popeychops Exiled to Southwark Jun 09 '23

Of course not, that's such a warped notion. Safeguarding should be in place to protect patients regardless of the characteristics of medical professionals.

You always have a right to withdraw your consent to receive medical treatment, but under almost all circumstances that's a self-destructive thing to do.

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u/BrewtalDoom Jun 09 '23

Well....yeah. Was this not a thing before. Like, did people think they had the right to know whether a paramedic was gay?

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u/FinancialAppearance Jun 09 '23

Warning!!! Your nurse today is a tranny!!

Hardest /s in the world, if that's not already obvious. I'm flabbergasted at the wording of this headline

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u/UKKasha2020 Jun 09 '23

A bigger issue is knowing if medics are bigots - there have been instances outside the UK where trans people have been denied medical care (those health 'professionals' should be fired) due to bigotry.

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u/DeathHamster1 Jun 09 '23

I have no right to know if my doctor has ginger pubes, purple pubes, rainbow pubes or Adeptus Mechanicus-style mechadendrite pubes. Got a Brazilian? A Clitler? More bush than an overgrown shrubbery? A veritable blast of fuzz from your mons pubis that resembles a fright wig at a pornographer's three ring spunk circus? Could. Not. Care. Less.

I have no right to know if their knob has so many piercings, it can pick up Voice of America. I have no right to know if their fanny doubles up as a wormhole vortex for the Dread Vonitur Empire.

I have no right to know if there is a colony of dormice down there, or even a micro-civilisation of nano-men from fucking Neptune.

Do they store their lunch down there? The deeds to their house? A Nintendo Switch? Don't need to know. Don't need to care.

IT IS NONE OF MY BUSINESS.

I have a right to excellent care and professionalism. The groin of my healer is neither here nor there, unless it's some sort of mutant groin that breathes fire or bites people. My pulse and my health are my concern, and that's all there is to say on the matter.

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u/Big_Red_Machine_1917 Greater London Jun 09 '23

I'm pretty sure if someone was in hospital and started demanding to know the gender or sexuality of medical staff, it would led to them being cautioned for harassment at the very least.

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u/Dull_Half_6107 Jun 09 '23

I can't imagine a scenario where my knowing the genitalia of my doctor, or what they identify as, has the slightest impact on the care they are providing as their job.

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u/JoelMahon Cambridgeshire Jun 09 '23

at first I thought "of course, you couldn't demand only doctors with 8 inch cocks either"

but after reading the comments I do wonder what can be done for cases where people may commonly request a doctor of the same sex e.g. a prostate exam.

personally I don't care, I've had embarrassing exams performed by doctors with different chromosome shapes before, but I don't like the idea of denying it outright for problems of that nature at least.

idk how to properly enable that without it being abused by transphobes who want to avoid a trans doctor for their broken arm or some other problem that should be no issue whether a male or female doctor treats it.

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u/mossmanstonebutt Jun 09 '23

Damn right they don't, if I'm in a hospital I've scuppered somthing and if that's the case I dont care what or who a person is as long as their competent, could be a moon man for all I care

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u/mittfh West Midlands Jun 09 '23

Sure, there are circumstances when people may prefer either male or female doctors, but surely it's more relevant as to whether they present passably masculine or feminine than what their AGAB is - especially as those who are lucky enough to transition in adolescence will be externally phenotypically indistinguishable from cis people of their gender (and while trans men will lack certain external anatomical features, medical practitioners aren't going to be removing their underwear in the presence of patients!) - and even with adults, there will be a proportion of trans people whose body dimensions aren't statistically out of the typical ranges of cis people: while men are, on average, taller and stronger than women, there is some overlap in the Normal distributions.

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u/DevDevGoose Jun 09 '23

It's a trap. The NHS is prepping us for robot doctors. We must push back and insist on inspecting the genitals and circulatory system of every "doctor" we see!

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u/redditpappy Jun 09 '23

It never occurred to me that this was important. Why would I need to know this?

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u/chickensmoker Jun 09 '23

Why does it matter what your doctor’s sexual orientation or gender is? I thought we got over this decades ago when we agreed that gendered jobs were unethical and unproductive ffs!