r/worldnews 13d ago Helpful 1 Wholesome 2 Wholesome Seal of Approval 1 Silver 1

Russian losses exceeded 56,000: 550 soldiers and 18 tanks in 24 hours Covered by Live Thread

https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2022/09/23/7368711/

[removed] — view removed post

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u/SardonicSeraphim 13d ago All-Seeing Upvote

Really astounding how much of a colossal fuck up this has been.

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u/wordholes 13d ago

This is the worst Russian fuck up... so far.

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u/IrememberXenogears 13d ago

And then things got worse.

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u/fasoBG 13d ago

As is tradition, unfortunately...

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u/tallandlanky 13d ago

Just wait until 300k conscripts are within HIMAR range. It's going to be brutal.

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u/DanteandRandallFlagg 13d ago

Operation Get Behind The Conscript

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u/Dog1234cat 13d ago

Lots of Russian officers: “So my plan is to take a lot of guys who hate me, give them guns, and turn my back on them.”

What’s Russian for fragging?

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u/ItsDare 13d ago

That's why the Russian officers stand at the back. And so they can shoot anyone who tries to retreat.

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u/giant_traveler 13d ago

Haven't you heard of The Emancipation Proclamation??

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u/[deleted] 13d ago Helpful

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u/RonstoppableRon 13d ago

This bit is the funniest line ever from South Park, change my mind

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u/socalfishman 13d ago

Listen Pal I’m not your Fwend

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u/Big-Humor-1343 13d ago

If anything like the last reserves they’ll be combat ineffective before they’ve finished crossing the border.

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u/evilpercy 13d ago

We have all seen the opening war scene of Enemy at the Gate. This is what i see happeninh.

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u/HereOnASphere 13d ago edited 13d ago

HIMARs are expensive, and shouldn't be "wasted" on killing a few solders. They're better used on ammunition depots, airfields, occupied headquarters, bridges, trains, anti-aircraft systems, and other strategic military targets.

Edit: Here's an old article from July 10th.

https://en.defence-ua.com/analysis/over_30_direct_hits_what_are_the_next_goals_for_himars_how_much_it_costs_and_will_it_be_profitable-3528.html

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u/Alexander_Granite 13d ago

The Ukrainians seem to be using the HIMARs pretty effectively. I’d trust their judgement on targets.

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u/spoonman59 13d ago

A few soldiers, sure.

But If you find a juicy assembly area? Might just be worth a few.

It’s all about cost benefit. And how much stock you have on hand.

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u/Evilbred 13d ago

Strategic theatre systems like HiMARs aren't used against normal troop concentrations.

Systems like these are used for specifically identified strategic targets like formation command teams or other strategic systems like Aircraft or SAM systems.

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u/jesuswasanatheist 13d ago

True but they do have a rocket that sprays 180k tungsten balls over a huge area….wonder what that’s for?

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u/Izuzu__ 13d ago

Rapidly making thousands of incandescent light bulbs

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u/Morgrid 13d ago

Everything short of a tank

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u/owennagata 13d ago

There is a US MLRS rocket (HIMARS & M270) that releases sub-munitions over a wide area, designed to wipe out infantry (and unarmored vehicles, I guess). To my knowlege, we have not given Ukraine any of those; only ones with a single warhead designed for taking out a point target. Unclear as to the reason, but I am sure it was at least partially out of fear of an atrocity being committed with US weapons. The effect of those on a city (either deliberate or inadvertent use) would be horrifying. I am not even sure if the US still has any in it's own inventory; they were really only meant for WWIII.

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u/Holden_Coalfield 13d ago

not leaving a lot of bomblets layin round

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u/Ranger5789 13d ago

Untrained, unequipped conscripts shown in a cold wet autumn trenches of a crumbling frontline, during still raging pandemic. How can this be not a fuck up.

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u/Sapiendoggo 13d ago

Of only there was an example of this very thing occurring before.....a corrupt decadent russian governor out of touch with the common people overestimating its strength and getting involved in a trench war to its east during a pandemic. Then doubling down as the casualties mount conscription more and more as they go. Only for the tactic of forcing some training and weapons upon pissed off citizens leading to an army revolt and the government being executed one by one.....if only something like that had happened before...

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u/basics 13d ago

Nah, if anything like that had happened, surely we humans would be smart enough to learn from history. I can't imagine we would repeat the same things over and over again.

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u/BadBadGrades 13d ago

Heard it before; it will only be until, before Christmas.

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u/Henji99 13d ago

As a german, I can confirm this whole thing is fucking stupid.
Seems like some countries can’t learn from other countries mistakes and have to redo them themselves

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u/Shopworn_Soul 13d ago

“Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so.”

  • Douglas Adams
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u/Chasfos 13d ago

You ain’t seen nothing yet!

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u/TheWanderingSlacker 13d ago

Who’s been supplying these -Lambs- with military Gears, u/IrememberXenogears?!

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u/IrememberXenogears 13d ago

At least we can rule out Gebler.

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u/sebgggg 13d ago

Kislev then?

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u/IrememberXenogears 13d ago

Probably Aveh. It's always Aveh.

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u/CRtwenty 13d ago

Xenogears plot makes more sense than this war at least. Including the part where the giant plushie monster got crucified

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u/azaghal1988 13d ago

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yzGqp3R4Mx4

watch this, and you'll know that there's much more possible when it comes to fuckups ;D

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u/NightSalut 13d ago

Russians seem to have forgotten that Ukraine today is not the same Ukraine of 2014. Ukraine and Ukrainians were top notch in USSR when it came to military industrial complex and the skillset owned by average Ukrainian soldier. Ukrainian soldiers were very good in the WWII Red Army, for example. Ukraine took a hard beating back in 2014 and built its military and paramilitary up from scratch and trained with every imaginable western partner that was willing to train Ukrainian soldiers. Russia thought it was going back to finish what they started in 2014, but the changes Ukraine made + the public support and weapons deliveries showed them that Russia is facing much different Ukraine and Europe today than it did 8 years ago.

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u/Danack 13d ago Rocket Like

Russians seem to have forgotten that Ukraine today is not the same Ukraine of 2014.

It's not forgotten....Putin seems to just not comprehend many things that I would have thought he should comprehend. Stuff like:

Computers are used in everything these days. If you don't manufacture your own computer chips then if you start a war of aggression, it's going to fuck up your whole economy.

Specialised computer chips (particularly mems accelerometers and gyroscopes) and also camera sensors are what is allowing the US and Turkey to build high quality drones that completely outclass what Russia can build. if you don't have the capacity to make those, and no strategic partner who will sell them to you, don't be surprised when you are hit with missiles that are very accurate and can dodge air defence.

Democracies will support other democracies when they are being hurt by a tyrant.

The Russia should have been transitioning its economy away from oil + gas as due to climate change, humanity needs to stop taking those out of the ground. This war will have done more to move people to renewables than most green parties have.

That throwing untrained troops into combat is a really fucking bad idea.

That if you've already stolen large chunks of land from a country, that country might have quite the urgency in modernising and training their armed forces.

Allegedly Putin doesn't use a computer, and spent the whole of lockdown in isolation reading about Russian history, and making up fantasies about 'correcting past mistakes'. It's also unclear if he is actually getting reliable reports about what is actually happening in Ukraine.

Having a tyrant just not being able to comprehend the world, and being in command of nuclear weapons, is kind of 'ungood'.

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u/Obvious_Moose 13d ago

Putin is also further fucking up his countries population. They already have way fewer young adults than they need to support eir population in the future and sending hundreds of thousands to die is just another nail in the coffin for their future.

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u/Rain_Coast 13d ago

Allegedly Putin doesn't use a computer

You have to wonder how different the world would be if leaders were doing a casual browse of Reddit during their morning coffee. The generation of politicians who grew up in the post 2000's internet age is going to be very, very different from the stagnation and archaic thinking we've enjoyed for the past quarter century. Whether that will be good or bad remains to be seen.

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u/tlsrandy 13d ago

I worry that the generation of politicians that are fluent in the internet are going to be rife in populism and manipulative discourse.

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u/Rain_Coast 13d ago

That does seem to be the course we're currently charting, yes.

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u/skolioban 13d ago

Nobody expected that 2014-2022 was Ukraine's training arc

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u/Zolo49 13d ago

Russia was right next door. You’d think they would’ve heard the training montage music.

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u/minkey-on-the-loose 13d ago

Now I am envisioning Ukrainian army recruits punching sides of beef in a locker and running up the steps of the Philadelphia library with civilians cheering them on over the past 8 years.

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u/dawgblogit 13d ago

They just listend to the Drago parts and skipped the other.

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u/Torifyme12 13d ago

I mean the US was there with the UK supplying the Training montage.

You'd think Russia would put 2 + 2 together to realize that.

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u/TazBaz 13d ago

Nobody? Nah, the US knew, they were doing a lot of the training. It’s also why they were so ready to help Ukraine this time around. Because they knew the Ukrainians were ready.

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u/Darth_drizzt_42 13d ago edited 13d ago

This hasn't occurred to me until I read your comment but amongst all the other lessons this war will have for military scholars, there's now undeniable truth that you can in fact mobilize, train, equip and field a modern, Western style military in well under a decade, so long as you have buy in from the local population, and as long as said population actually has a shared national identity. Afghanistan could be read as repudiation of western military structures as a whole but Ukraine, even with severe institutional corruption of it's own, transformed themselves. Additionally they leverages their homegrown talent, namely software developement, and used it to create command and control software that's on par with anything the US uses

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u/Walrus_Butter 13d ago

I feel proud that I was one of the people, American Army, that got the chance to help train the Ukrainians in 2014. I actually ran the Advanced Rifle Marksmanship range for them, it was a lot of fun. They also taught us how to make booby traps, which we aren't allowed to use.

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u/PutlerDaFastest 13d ago

Putin and Dugin claim Russians were ordained by God to rule over Europe. It looks to me that they were sponsored by Looney tunes and ACME products.

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u/El-JeF-e 13d ago

Here's the thing though, the Russians have been throwing their mid-tier shit at Ukraine for 6 months to soften them up. Now together with a mobilization, Ukranian tanks will start crashing into tunnels painted on the face of cliffs, anvils will start being dropped from drones onto lone unsuspecting soldiers. But worst of all, they will unleash the "Roadrunner" hypersonic bird.

(obviously /s, russia fucking sucks and they are sending more men to die pointlessly).

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u/PutlerDaFastest 13d ago

You totally got me. Only the first sentence came up in the notification. I was livid. The notification gave your post perfect comedic timing.

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u/Stoomba 13d ago

Had us in the first half, not gonna lie.

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u/Car-face 13d ago

Everyone knows Russian anvils are more advanced than Western anvils

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u/Justinasz 13d ago

The worst is still ahead. Imagine Russia most likely lost many elite troops who have been trained for years and now they gonna send kids who will have 2 weeks training at best and even I think I am being too optimistic about 2 weeks training.

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u/Mephzice 13d ago

yeah these 300k are going to die fast

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u/spoonman59 13d ago

I’m skeptical they can even get that many in theater.

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u/Adhdicted2dopamine 13d ago

They really Putin’d this up.

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u/[deleted] 13d ago

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u/wordholes 13d ago

Fuck the propagandists working for him. They can die for their precious Pootin when they get sent to the front lines.

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u/Zoskalez 13d ago edited 13d ago

That says a lot from a country that has produced classic fuck ups such as Chernobyl and the Berlin Wall

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u/bonescrusher 13d ago

And it's just starting,the real bloodbath is yet to come

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u/Aggressive-Cut5836 13d ago

America lost about 55,000 troops during the Vietnam War… but that took 9 years! Russia managed to do it in 7 months

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u/Showmethepathplease 13d ago

Finally beat America at something…

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u/rootpl 13d ago

RuZZia number one! /s just in case

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u/Desdinova74 13d ago

And we still talk about what a colossal fuck up the Vietnam war was. Thanks for pootin it into perspective.

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u/[deleted] 13d ago edited 13d ago Wholesome

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u/Preachey 13d ago

Same bullshit in Iraq. You hear a lot of criticism aimed at Bush starting a war that "killed over 4400 Americans!" and a hell of a lot less about the half-million+ dead Iraqis

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u/kyleninperth 13d ago

I don’t think this is true. Most (justified) criticisms of that invasion are essentially along the lines of “you killed a million people in Iraq”

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u/bobbytux 13d ago

Yea its Bush is a war criminal because of ^ that.

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u/ProcrastinatingPuma 13d ago

Around 250k dead Iraqi Civilians but the point still stands

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u/light_to_shaddow 13d ago

American foreign policy is horrendous 'cause not only will America come to your country and kill all your people, but what's worse, I think, is that they'll come back 20 years later and make a movie about how killing your people made their soldiers feel sad.

Americans making a movie about what Vietnam did to their soldiers is like a serial killer telling you what stopping suddenly for hitchhikers did to his clutch.

Frankie Boyle.

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u/Hypertension123456 13d ago

"Still" isn't quite the right word here. When the war ended there were a lot of conservatives and powerful chickenhawks who insisted it was still winnable. Even in the 80s and 90s this was a common belief among Republicans. It wasn't until those powerful and crooked old men all finally died off that the history could be looked at fully objectively.

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u/Malbethion 13d ago

Russia surpassed American Vietnam KIA a while ago. American numbers are only around 58k because they lost about 10k troops to sickness and accident.

Source: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vietnam_War

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u/Lee1138 13d ago

And the US had significantly more troops deployed to Vietnam at the same time for a number of years than the "190k" Russia sent to Ukraine. Of course if Russia had sent more troops in the first place, it maybe would not have been so disastrous for them in the first place.

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u/leoonastolenbike 13d ago

Russia doesn't care about dead russian/DPR soldiers.

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u/bernard_wrangle 13d ago

US population in 1969 = 207,659,273 people. 55k casualties is 2.65 for every 10,000 Americans.

Russian population 2022 = 146,073,416 people. That's 3.76 casualties for every 10,000 Russian citizens.

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u/Furthur_slimeking 13d ago

This is 56,000 casualties (dead and wounded combined), not 56,000 dead.

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u/mangulic365 13d ago

Check soviet casualties during ww2. Human lives were always just a number to russian leaders. Sadest thing is that russian people have probabbly the most freedom that they had in last few centuries and this is how that "freedom" looks

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u/[deleted] 13d ago edited 13d ago

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u/Avangelice 13d ago

When you say special forces are you talking about the doomed paratroopers they initially sent to the airport? That was so idiotic and a huge waste of specialist

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u/PayRevolutionary8133 13d ago

Yes the vdv they sent to hostomel

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u/sanguinesolitude 13d ago

Or sending your most advanced tanks into urban warfare without infantry support? Lmao.

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u/SandwichProt3ctor 13d ago

They lost 15 ships including their flagship to a country which doesnt even have a navy

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u/shmehh123 13d ago

The absurdity of this war is astounding. We knew it was coming for months. Everyone in the media assumed it’d never happen and if it did Ukraine would fall. 7 months ago if you told me Ukraine would sink 15 ships without a navy, deny Russia air supremacy for the entirety of the war and kill 50,000+ Russian soldiers along with a ludicrous amount of their top brass I would not believe you. But here we are.

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u/sanguinesolitude 13d ago

7 months ago I thought the Russian Military was either #2 or #3 in the world. What a joke that turned out to be. Russia threatens to attack the US but can't even handle Ukraine equipped with our hand me downs?

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u/grissinb 13d ago

another Russian Hoax playing out

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u/LtSoundwave 13d ago Silver

That was just a special operation to create a new coral reef.

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u/Frisbeeperth 13d ago

So are you telling me that the Kremlin is lying when they put deaths at just under 6000 - go figure.

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u/timberwolf0122 13d ago

3.6 roentgens is as high as the meter goes

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u/Mornar 13d ago

This line was a wake up slap. This is what happens in a country that doesn't fucking care about facts anymore.

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u/timberwolf0122 13d ago

Or worse, they use “alternative facts tm”. The very least I can say for the guy at Chernobyl is he didn’t lie, 3.6 is what the meter said and that’s what was reported.

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u/porncrank 13d ago

And yet all around the world there are people pushing to ignore facts. Humans love their comforting stories.

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u/Mooseymax 13d ago

“6,000 deaths on this A4 sheet. Not great, not terrible.”

“B-but sir, the other pages!?”

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u/Illerios1 13d ago

They are really reporting that much? Not long ago they reported next to none dead....Guess they really cant hide their colossal fuck up anymore when they are suddenly reporting 6000 dead

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u/cyril_zeta 13d ago

It's only the second time they are reporting any specific figures. The last time was in early April or so and it was around 1800 people. This time their MoD reported almost 6000. Which is absurd, because local Russian media has reported on far more military funerals than this.

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u/Sadie_Sorcerer 13d ago

On his way down, Putin is going to hurt as many people as he can.

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u/kagethemage 13d ago

If Russia really does see Ukraine as part of Russia than they are about to make the biggest military blunder of all time. Never invade Russia in the winter.

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u/Rosebunse 13d ago

Which is essentially what they did to begin with.

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u/Casual-Swimmer 13d ago

Russia: Winter is our friend

Winter: NO one is my friend

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u/albl1122 13d ago

I beg to differ. https://youtu.be/En3Rkr2gWIY

Seriously..... Look up the loss numbers. Simo Häyä alone, the sniper with the most kills ever, killed over 500 in this winter war.... In a couple weeks.

There were no massive resupply effort for Finland, and the army was barely recovered from their civil war. Yet they killed such a ludicrously large number of soviets.

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u/spoonman59 13d ago

Winter favors the defenders.

I believe the pp was saying that winter has saved Russia in the past when they were on the defensive. But it won’t help Russia if they attack in winter.

I think defending in winter is preferable.

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u/JollyRancherReminder 13d ago

Also, never go in against a Sicilian when death is on the line.

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u/top_of_the_stairs 13d ago

Dammit Putin, you psychopath, let it go.

"I am tired and sick of war. Its glory is all moonshine. It is only those who have neither fired a shot nor heard the shrieks and groans of the wounded who cry aloud for blood, for vengeance, for desolation. War is hell." - William Tecumseh Sherman

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u/Grump_Monk 13d ago

"War is where the young and stupid are tricked by the old and bitter into killing eachother." - Niko Belic

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u/Oprah_Pwnfrey 13d ago

"War isn't Hell. War is war, and Hell is Hell. And of the two, war is a lot worse... There are no innocent bystanders in Hell. War is chock full of them - little kids, cripples, old ladies. In fact, except for some of the brass, almost everybody involved is an innocent bystander." Hawkeye Pierce - MASH.

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u/jigy111 13d ago

Such an incredible show, I would say it is underrated but only to the younger generations that missed out.

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u/AnAdaptionOfMe 13d ago

👏👏👏

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u/EffortlessCool 13d ago

"I can't remember what it was to be warm. It seems a thousand years since I was a small boy in the sun. How did I come to this high, desolate place where there is nothing but loneliness? So much is lost. I want to look into your eyes and forget. It all seems so far away: a warm house where my shadow never falls, your long, black hair in my hands. There is no more revolution; only you to come back to" Colonel Bella - Red Dawn (1984).

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u/Deja-Vuz 13d ago

Huge ass Ego. Putin is A sore loser

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u/wgszpieg 13d ago Wholesome

Putin's not doing this for glory, nationalism, or any other 'lofty' reason. You can't treat him like a statesman, because he's not interested in statecraft. Rather, you should read him as the don of a criminal organization, then much more of his actions make sense. And crime lords don't tend to have moral constraints

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u/wordholes 13d ago

He's been doubling down on stupid for months now. The "3 day" invasion that brought Russia to its knees and Pootin is still sinking more and more like a degenerate gambler.

There's no stopping this until Pootin hits rock bottom, or in this case a fall from a window.

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u/UpgradingLight 13d ago

This is a great analogy, a gambler who has bet on red twice on the roulette wheel can’t possibly switch to black on there third try and so on and so fourth

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u/dan2737 13d ago

so fourth

well played

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u/GigaSoup 13d ago

Rock is possibly at the end of the drop so still hitting rock at the bottom is a likely case.

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u/daveescaped 13d ago

I get your point and this is somewhat helpful. But a mafia crime lord would see the futility and financial loss a d call it a day at some point.

Putin is simply such a dreadful human that his ego is more important than human life. The man clearly does not believe in any kind of judgment or karma.

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u/APintOfFreshAir 13d ago

A mafia crime lord would realize this means the loss of his head. The other Capos thirsty for his place would gladly take it from him at that point. Additionally, anyone with a bone to pick would now have the means to get at Putin because he’s not the top dog.

Putin is going to let Russians die because otherwise it means his head

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u/wgszpieg 13d ago

He can't call it a day, because the reason why he invaded in the first place is still there - namely, that a former puppet oligarchy has become a functioning democracy. What ideas will this put into the heads of russians? Already last year Lukashenko barely survived, when will the next strike fall? What if the russians actually come to believe that change for the better is possible?

This is why he can't stop - his own, personal fortune is on the line.

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u/Piffdolla1337take2 13d ago

Sherman was truly deserving of the name tecumseh, engineering his total war imo literally saved the union.

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u/TeraSC2 13d ago edited 13d ago Helpful All-Seeing Upvote Today I Learned

Ukrainian here. This outlet is trustworthy here despite the bespoke name.

However, I'd like to make a slight correction. In the last 24h our army General Staff "confirmed" 550 more liquidated Russian soldiers. They could have died days or more time ago, but the confirmation has gone through only now.

Our military command posts the updated sheet with estimated Russian losses daily. You can find it by searching "Генеральний штаб ЗСУ / General Staff of the Armed Forces of Ukraine" on Facebook.

Also possibly the most relevant part of the latest daily report is the 14 artillery systems & 8 MLRS as, according to Tom Cooper, those are the only thing keeping the Russian battle lines together. Our military spokespeople tend to agree with Mr. Cooper. 14/8 is significantly above average for arty/mlrs in this war.

edit/followup: to address some comments, i'd like to point out that Pravda.com.ua is considered trustworthy in Ukraine (it's not seen as spreading falsehoods intentionally). I'm not saying you should shut down critical thinking reading it. I'm even pointing out the fallacy in the title. In the article, author has provided a source. If you don't trust the source or looking for an opinion from someone unbiased in this war (which is very reasonable of you), I recommend Oryx.

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u/EvidentlyEmpirical 13d ago

14 artillery and 8 mlrs. Wow!

Between that and the destruction of all the back-line supply depots, the invaders are going to be reduced to fighting with sticks and yelling "bang" soon.

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u/pepolpla 13d ago

How do they confirm deaths exactly as these numbers are always far away from every other intelligence estimates of deaths from the UK and the US? I feel like they're reporting casualties as deaths rather than just casualties + deaths. Now considering that Russia has poor medical facilities if that exist at all, their death rates would still be horrifically high as soldiers are unable to have access to advanced medical care quickly. So I would assume half this number is actual deaths.

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u/TeraSC2 13d ago

"How do they confirm deaths exactly" - it's a very good question.

The General Staff hasn't shared its methodology as far as I know.

From anecdotal accounts of the political and military spokespeople I heard that they

- confirm the casualties visually

- use a rough estimation (for example - one blown up tank equals three solders KIA)

- use signal and human intelligence (for example, when Himars blows up a depo, one commander uses radio to tell another how many men they lost as "200"/kia & 300/wounded).

The intelligence services UK and US always give a conservative estimate which they can corroborate from multiple sources. Their last estimate, if I recall correctly was around 25k kia. It was posted when the General Staff reported 50k estimated kia on the Russian side.

Our military spokespersons also suggest (explaining that the info cannot be verified all things considered) that the total number of losses of the Russian army could be around 120k, that includes kia, wounded, pows, and those who refused to fight. It also includes the losses of the PMCs (not included in the numbers provided in the article)

Again for the sake of those who will come to comment that I'm spreading fake news because the numbers come from one of the sides of the conflict: please do apply critical thinking. Please, do read what the intelligence of other armies and sources like Oryx say.

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u/noelcowardspeaksout 13d ago

I agree the artillery systems are key. It is also worth mentioning that the shells they need are also a key and it is said they are beginning to run low. And if their lines are broken the Russian APV's become key, so a lack of those could also be a huge factor.

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u/AbstractBettaFish 13d ago

It’s like Napoleon said “God fights on the side with the best artillery”

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u/Soliden 13d ago

There was a post a week or so ago that had showed a captured Ruzzian ammo cache that showed Chinese lettering on the artillery shells - most likely from the North Koreans when Ruzzia said they were buying materiel from them, so yes, but looking good at all.

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u/TeraSC2 13d ago

Our military spokespeople have commented on this.

Russia does not use weapons of that caliber. Most likely, it was ammo produced by China, sold to a third country. That third country (most likely, Albania) sold the ammo to Ukraine. Russians captured the ammo during an assault but couldn't use it. During the Kharkiv counter offensive Ukraine recaptured the ammo and the soldiers, seeing the Chinese markings, shared the video.

Long story short, most likely, it's most likely a misunderstanding. In any case, the Russians don't use the 60mm caliber ammo, which was in the center of that story.

Again, for the sake of those who will want to accuse me of some bs: please, don't trust anything blindly, verify what I or anyone else says/writes with any available preferably unbiased source.

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u/SailingBacterium 13d ago

Interesting, thanks for providing that context.

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u/jemsipx 13d ago edited 13d ago

Pre-war the russian army was one the most feared armies on Earth. Now everyone knows what a fuckup army it is

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u/nightpanda893 13d ago

I remember seeing videos on YouTube about how Russian intelligence and espionage was just unmatched. A year ago Putin and Russia were very scary and mysterious to a lot of people. The entire illusion has been shattered in such a spectacular way.

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u/Throwaway_7451 13d ago

Clearly their actual post-ussr military was a sham all along, but look what they did to the US and UK... Amazing feats of compromising assets, propaganda, and psychological warfare, to the point that they almost shattered the EU and were on their way to spiraling the US into civil war.

But their whole shtick was backed by the idea you mentioned... That they're this massive superpower not to be trifled with. Which we now know was not really the case, thanks to greed and corruption.

They needed both the psyops and the image to make it work. Now that the image is shattered, this could spell the actual end of the legacy of the USSR.

To collapse from that level of perceived power to North Korea isolation in a few months

It's not an exaggeration to say that we could be witnessing one of the most monumental blunders in all of world history.

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u/Aunt_Vagina1 13d ago

I don't want anyone to publicly question it, buuttt.. kind of makes you wonder if their Nuclear Arsenal is even operational. I mean, if everyone thinks you've got this insane power that is so devastating, to use it would mean destruction for everyone, including yourself, why maintain it? Its not like anyone's asking for them to prove their missile silos still work.

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u/jollyreaper2112 13d ago

Maintaining nukes is expensive as hell. I'm just some internet doofus so it's entirely speculation on my part but I wonder at just how much of that arsenal is even still operational. They allegedly have 6k warheads in the stockpile with 1500 ready for use. There's no telling what that number actually is. In addition to the maintenance required to keep the warheads ready to go -- you have to remanufacture the nuclear material on a schedule because natural decay makes it less likely to go boom, you have to replace the conventional explosives that make the nuclear material go boom, there's other classified stuff that assists with the boom like what the US calls fogbank and that needs to be maintained -- and that's not even talking delivery systems. A good warhead doesn't count for much if you can't get it to target. Solid rocket fuel degrades and needs replaced. Liquid fuel rockets have even more maintenance required.

I would not be surprised if there was only a shockingly small number of ICBM's they would actually trust to make it to target with good warheads.

Of course, it only takes one nuke to ruin your day.

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u/Acceleratio 13d ago

Imagine how shitty the Chinese military is. They are just as inept and corrupt BUT also lack military experience almost completely

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u/SailingBacterium 13d ago

Is corruption as big of a problem in China as in Russia? Honestly don't know.

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u/pawpaw_git 13d ago

From my understanding, China's biggest weakness is its "good enough" culture, basically half-assing whatever you can get away with and cheating when possible.

So corruption of the spirit, basically

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u/Cakehangers 13d ago

I understand there is a lot of money that goes into different pockets than expected. Also as we know there are strange projects such as ghost cities, ghost cities that get knocked down to build more, mortgages on not-yet built houses, no doubt more.

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u/RedVeist 13d ago

Agreed, it’s also a testament to why the US will never have a draft again.

Having people that REALLY don’t wanna be their only causes more casualties, low morale decreases the effectiveness of your force.

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u/1gnominious 13d ago

Also a ton of excess low quality infantry just aren't useful in a modern war. Particularly when you're up against a better trained and equipped army. Even if they somehow avoid the morale problems and all these new soldiers buy in what exactly are they going to achieve? They don't have the air, artillery, or armor support to advance. All they can do is dig in and try to survive for as long as possible against the unlimited supplies and morale of Ukraine. Russia can't rebuild its arsenal in time to reinforce these draftees. Best case scenario is they delay the inevitable with their deaths. Which isn't even helpful because that just means more damage to Russia.

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u/8to24 13d ago

Putin's current strategy is to threaten to use nuclear weapons unless he is allowed to win. It is pathetic and can't be allowed to stand.

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u/Illerios1 13d ago

Like a child who flips the game board when he realizes that he cant win and refuses to play another round unless let win.

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u/lostb0i 13d ago

Turning off the PlayStation when you’re losing

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u/hombrent 13d ago

I used to regularly play a video game against someone significantly better than me. I always lost.

One of the most satisfying events in my life was the one time I got ahead in the score by 1 point, then immediately quit the game and claimed victory.

Putin should find any little thing to claim victory for, and just quit playing.

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u/PMMEFEMALEASSSPREADS 13d ago

Exactly what I thought of as well.

When I was about 6 years old, I would cry unless my opponent let me win at some game.

The reputed hard man leader of Russia is literally 6-year old me.

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u/GerryC 13d ago

He's gone full on North Korean. Bold move. I'm not a head of state, but even I know you never go full North Korean.

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u/staaarfox 13d ago

Today may be worse than yesterday, but at least it's better than tomorrow. -Russian proverb

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u/vonblankenstein 13d ago

So in this remarkably short military engagement Russia has lost as many soldiers as the US did during its entire involvement in the Vietnam war.

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u/preytowolves 13d ago

jesus. is this real? and vietnam war turned out to be a massive scar on the us conscious…

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u/vonblankenstein 13d ago

Yep. We lost 58K military personnel in Vietnam. Another half million wounded. But it happened between 1965 and 1975 and Putin has managed to incur that heavy loss in just months.

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u/SKozan 13d ago edited 13d ago

The cost of medical bills and the toll of war on the veterans is also immeasurable. So many Russians and Ukrainians will have PTSD and probably end up commiting suicide if they live through this.

Putin is a monster and has destroyed millions of families. He must be stopped.

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u/Malbethion 13d ago edited 13d ago

For those keeping score, a necromancer that could raise all of the Russian KIA would have the 60th largest active army in the world. Russia’s losses (killed, not simply casualties) have most recently surpassed the entire active military of the Dominican Republic, and are on track to surpass the entire active military of Australia by the end of the month.

Source for numbers: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_number_of_military_and_paramilitary_personnel

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u/findingmike 13d ago

Yeah, but you'd have to be really high level to raise all those zombies.

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u/monkeycurler 13d ago

Did you factor in the emu’s though

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u/Ralh3 13d ago

Emu's have the 37th largest army... so check back in about December or January

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u/nozendk 13d ago

With that pace it will take 18 months to kill all the new 300000 russian conscripts.

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u/egric 13d ago

Might be even faster given they are untrained and underequipped

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u/Thraggismydaddy 13d ago

And unwanting to participate. I forsee swaths of defectors and asylum seekers in the months ahead

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u/Cycode 13d ago

there are already reports of russians calling the "surrender hotline" of ukraine BEFORE they are even in ukraine to shedule a surrender place & time since they got the drafting papers from the police. russians currently are surrendering, even while they are still in russia and not ukraine.. just because they got the offical papers.

i would say it will go way quicker than we think.

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u/DWHallLiu 13d ago

The idea of booking a surrender sounds funny to me in a macabre kind of way.

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u/stray1ight 13d ago

"Appointment? Why yes, I've scheduled a capitulation for today at 11:30. Last name Ivanov..."

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u/cshizzle99 13d ago

Oh I’m sorry this is Abuse. Surrender is at the end of the hall. Stupid git.

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u/saadakhtar 13d ago

Argument sketch from Monty Python.

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u/Cycode 13d ago

well, it's the safest way to not die by accident by trying to do it on the battlefield by walking into the enemy range & the enemy not understanding your intention of surrendering.

ukraine did the same with offering money & being a POW by giving tanks to ukraine if i remember right.

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u/leoonastolenbike 13d ago

And ukraine gets an increase in weapons supply

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u/crispychoc 13d ago

Don't forget "Winter is coming!"

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u/johnnygrant 13d ago

it will probably be faster.

More troops even less equipped and trained than the current ones will mean more casualties per dumb artillery shell, himars etc.

It almost feels like there's no way this won't end badly for Russia, the only question is if they will try to drag everyone down along with them...but the best time to take the losses and quit is yesterday, it will only continue to get worse for them.

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u/Espressodimare 13d ago

Hopefully it won't take that long, with updated Ukrainian artillery and a declining Russian military... But there's rumours about 1 million mobilised conscripts. That would just be a blood bath.

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u/DiggityDanksta 13d ago

At that rate Ukraine will be killing them faster than they're being trained up.

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u/bigorangemachine 13d ago

Another article said Putin is now issuing orders to local-generals (would be the equivalent of Biden giving orders to Colonels & Captains). This probably was the result of direct orders from putin.

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u/Rosebunse 13d ago

All of the actual generals are probably dead.

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u/okhi2u 13d ago

I saw one of those articles yesterday -- there were also articles saying the same thing a while back, he may have been playing military leader the whole time because he doesn't trust anyone even those who should know more than him about this stuff.

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u/1847374 13d ago Hugz

I will never forgive the Kremlin for this. Ever. (Russian, living abroad.)

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u/Ok_Dimension_9969 13d ago

Why don't the troops mobilize themselves to putins front door step. Seems like there would be less casualty to just off the old fucker rather than go to war

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u/Aggravating-Wrap4861 13d ago

Putin's goon squad and various police forces are numerous, well equipped and are themselves spied on by other goon squads.

He's a terrible person but he's good at staying alive, unfortunately.

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u/bonescrusher 13d ago

Because people don't want to hear it but a lot of russians support the war

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u/GEAUXUL 13d ago

Propaganda works. Lots of Russians will be headed to Ukraine thinking they’re saving Ukraine from Nazis.

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u/lordderplythethird 13d ago

as well as believing they're restoring part of Russia that was illegally taken away, given that's a common propaganda line in Russia

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u/SpecialistMonk8 13d ago

Russia was never threatened before this invasion. Life was fine in Russia before this invasion. The fact that Putin single handily disrupted his whole country due to paranoia, ego, and made up bs, innocent lives from every aspect has destroyed on both sides. Why, oh why, is Putin still alive?

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u/pissalisa 13d ago

So many lives 🥺 for what! What does he need this shit for? I understand Crimea for access to the Mediterranean but he already had that.

His oligarch oil and gas monopoly was doing fine. Or wasn’t it?

He has the largest country in the world. Surely it’s not in dire need of more land?

Why pick this fight?

If he thought it was going to be an easy walk in, ok…

But why persist with it?

Does he actually believe that NATO was threatening his borders?

Where the hell is The Russia we loved to play hockey with. The great scientists and thinkers we worked with. The new friends and a hopeful world.

Was it never there?

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u/Ganadote 13d ago

It makes more sense when you get into the mindset of an imperialist.

Russia economy is built on gas and oil. Ukraine was essentially a Puppet State before the 2014? election. After that, all that untapped gas and oil Ukraine had was now a threat to Russia.

But military wise, it makes sense to want Ukraine for defense. Russia views NATO as an adversary at best, enemy at worst. As NATO influence grows, Russia's wanes. There's a massive plain that begins in Germany and opens out all the way into Russia - this land is incredibly difficult to defend. With Ukraine inching towards NATO, from Russia's POV if war should break out between then, they would have indefensible land (this helped the Nazis steamroll through west Soviet Union in WW2). If Russia controls Ukraine, then their defensive line shrinks ti a significantly more manageable space with mountains and friendly nations on either side.

Not only that, but Putin probably had credible reason to believe that a Blitz could work. We know it didn't, which he probably did not anticipate. He probably definitely didn't anticipate Ukraine's strong defense and counteroffense.

Thing is with dictators they can't look weak, so he probably felt like once he was in that was it, but that's conjecture.

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u/Life_Of_High 13d ago

He could not afford to have a formerly dominated colony who is ethnically and culturally similar to Russia embrace democracy and surpass Russia economically leveraging oil and gas deposits found in the Donbas and off the coast of Crimea. Ukraine with the arable land and newly found oil deposits could become Europe’s next superpower and there was no way Putin was going to allow that right next door. He doesn’t want Russians to be exposed to that kind of human potential.

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u/cshizzle99 13d ago

As far as why persisting, it’s the exact same narcissistic thought process that led trump to alter a weather map with a sharpie and deny Covid simply because he said it was nothing to worry about in the beginning. In their lizard brains they’d rather burn the world than acknowledge a miscalculation or even a simple slip up (the hurricane thing)

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u/Kaberdog 13d ago

At this point Putin is a dead man walking. Russia isn't going to be able to continue to hide the impact of the war on its people or economy for much longer.

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u/-Gramsci- 13d ago edited 13d ago

Here’s something interesting to think about.

In the beginning of the war the goal was to blitz Ukraine, make it to Kiev, make Zelensky flee the country, topple the government, and install a puppet government. That was the purpose of the “special military operation.”

That failed. Then the goal became occupy the eastern provinces in the country and annex them. So the Russians are now no longer on the offensive, but are dug in defending those eastern provinces.

The Ukrainians then begin advancing on that territory, exterminating Russian armed forces in that territory, and forcing the survivors to flee that territory.

Then this week, Putin orders a draft to send hundreds of thousands of men to reinforce those lines and to try, desperately, to defend that territory. So Putin is executing a World War 1 strategy here. Dig in, and keep reinforcing the front with men, and then you can hold that line.

That strategy hasn’t worked since WW1. Honestly just shocking to to see someone trying that strategy today.

But I digress. What began as an “offensive” campaign is now, 100%, a “defensive” campaign.

What began as a campaign to bring Ukraine back into the bosom of mother russia is now a campaign to retain a mere handful of provinces.

Perhaps the russian people were stoked about bringing an entire country to heel. Perhaps they would have even risked the lives of their sons and husbands for that.

But the real, unvarnished, truth will be that the russian people will not be cool with their loved ones dying, and/or returning home missing their limbs, because “defending the Donbas” is worth dying for and destroying their lives for.

The russian propaganda has reached it’s breaking point. Putin had really effective propaganda capabilities… but his final mistake has just been made. He has pushed even that beyond its capacity. Just as he has pushed his military beyond its capacity.

Mistake after mistake by Putin. Mistake from alpha to omega. And the mistake of conscription is the fatal one. It collapses his propaganda industry.

Putin is cooked. That much is now certain. The only question remaining is how much damage will he cause the rest of us before his assassination.

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u/SXTR 13d ago

55,000 death seems credible to me. In France we have a guy named Xavier Tytelman who make an incredible job with his team to collect data. I let you get en eye on his Youtube channel to see how he process, that’s very serious job.

And the number of 55,000 seems well enough close to his estimations

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u/r0thar 13d ago

Xavier Tytelman

Subtitled in English on his YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6jzXB9QRXS4

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u/MidniteMogwai 13d ago

Those wounded too badly to continue in their roles likely outnumber the dead by 2:1. Wasn’t it around 150,000 troops initially sent in for this operation? It’s possible Putin has nearly exhausted his entire first wave. An undeniably colossal fuck up and for Putin.

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u/hecatonchires266 13d ago

Men and women dying for a war no one wanted. It's really unfortunate.

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u/Espressodimare 13d ago

Lots of people in Russia want it.

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u/Mediocre_Frosting783 13d ago edited 13d ago

Im from Eastern Europe, bordering Russia, I know the BS that that their are being told, I mean wold history and Russia's history are 2 different things. Imagine growing up, or being there your entire life being brainwashed in to believing that the entire world is against you. The propaganda there is crazy. And most of the x soviet states had their residents sent out to Siberia, and replaced with Russians. For them it's easy no declare war against any x soviet state, they can just say that their people are being repressed and need help.

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u/bonescrusher 13d ago edited 13d ago

On one side you are right , I'm from Romania and even here we have a few idiots that support Putin and blame NATO for Ukraine , oblivious to the fact they'd be sent to Siberia at a moments notice ..on the other side they have all the information available, they have Russian free press writing from Europe . They aren't under Iron Courtain anymore , they are choosing to believe the bullshit they are fed , even some of the Russian living in the rest of Europe rally in support of the war . I feel sorry for them but at some point they have to take some responsabiliy.

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u/Pudgedog 13d ago

When Ukraine builds the border wall it will be with Russian bodies.

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u/orangebix 13d ago

I see this war as putin 100% belived he would attack and ,Zelensk and his mi ister would grab what they can a flee the country. But that didn't happen and now the rest of the world, gets to test weapons.

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u/definitivescribbles 13d ago

that’s basically it. Russian soldiers have become target practice for western surveillance and weaponry.

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u/PopularWobblyRadio 13d ago

Say what you want about Putin, but he really has accomplished something here that the Soviet Union was never capable of.

He lost a land war in Europe.