r/worldnews Oct 05 '22 Wholesome 1 Mind Blown 2

US officials say Ukraine was behind car bomb that killed daughter of Russian nationalist: NYT Russia/Ukraine

https://thehill.com/policy/international/3675156-us-officials-say-ukraine-was-behind-car-bomb-that-killed-daughter-of-russian-nationalist-nyt/
12.1k Upvotes

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u/autotldr BOT Oct 05 '22

This is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 63%. (I'm a bot)


U.S. intelligence officials allege Ukraine was responsible for a car bomb that killed the daughter of a close ally of Russian President Vladimir Putin, The New York Times reported on Wednesday.

American officials told the New York Times that U.S. intelligence believes parts of the Ukrainian government authorized the attack, though they did not specify whether Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky was aware of or had signed off on the attack.

The U.S. was not aware of the attack ahead of time and admonished Ukrainian officials over the killing, the American officials said.


Extended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: U.S.#1 officials#2 Ukrainian#3 time#4 killed#5

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u/yukithedog Oct 06 '22

Now I don’t know Russian or hang out in Russian social media but according to the media I followed at the time this was reported, they fail to mention that she was not really innocent in all of this. Apparently she was a popular influencer who was spouting Putin’s and her father’s propaganda about the “special military operation” etc. What kind of paper is The Hill anyway?

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u/TwoCoresOneThread Oct 06 '22

The original source is the New York Times.

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u/foamed Oct 06 '22

Many thanks, I appreciate the effort.

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u/MoreGull Oct 06 '22

Wasn't there a last minute change in cars or something like that and that's why she died instead of the father? I didn't get the sense she was the target.

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u/ISuckAtRacingGames Oct 06 '22

It was her car. Normally her father would go back home with her car.

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u/platoface541 Oct 06 '22

So strange, usually bungling an assassination is a Russian trademark

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u/Bullet-Tech Oct 06 '22

Plot twist. Every oligarchs death during the war has been by ukraine. Imagine.

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u/Glabstaxks Oct 06 '22

In mother Ukraine , bomb cars you

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u/LordRaglan1854 Oct 06 '22

It would be reasonable to assume her father was the primary target. Higher profile, higher significance.

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u/zoidalicious Oct 06 '22

Another great example of only reading titles... In the article the New York times are mentioned as source. Since they have a paywall, op probably linked the hill instead.

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u/chairfairy Oct 06 '22

They didn't even read the reddit title - it says "NYT" right there

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u/[deleted] Oct 06 '22

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/UncleMalcolm Oct 06 '22 edited Oct 06 '22

She was an adult and also a devoted follower of her father’s teachings.

That doesn’t necessarily make it a morally correct or even smart thing to do…but I believe the phrase “play stupid games, win stupid prizes” does apply here

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u/FallenQueen92 Oct 06 '22

Weren't they trying to target her father? And instead she got in the car first.

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u/UncleMalcolm Oct 06 '22

It tracks logically but who the hell knows? This report I’m sure has some factual basis behind it, but it’s still an anonymous source telling the writer that they think the Ukrainians did it. And it makes sense, but why target Dugin instead of Skabeyeva or Solovyov or Simonyan, or even an actual government official, all of whom presumably carry more sway than Dugin does at this point?

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u/AJHenderson Oct 06 '22 edited Oct 06 '22

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/y2kizzle Oct 06 '22

Yeah she was a piece of shit too

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u/New_Parsley6211 Oct 06 '22

They may admonish Ukraine in public. But the US knows this is a regular tactic of espionage.

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u/rd1970 Oct 06 '22

Espionage is about collecting information, not assassination.

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u/timelyparadox Oct 05 '22

Ukraine closer to putin than putin would like to think. They almost killed one of the top aid of his.

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u/JohnnyValet Oct 05 '22 Platinum

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u/0xConnery Oct 05 '22

I might be too paranoid but I'd never take a picture with a clock in plain sight, certain distinctive features of weather and especially on a presumably CCTV surveilled place.

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u/[deleted] Oct 05 '22 edited Oct 21 '22

[deleted]

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u/FSB_AgentTrump Oct 05 '22

We are not. We took a page out of the SEC handbook and mostly just watch pornhub all day. As a group.

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u/howie_rules Oct 06 '22

I’m voting Lemon party

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u/TheBlackBear Oct 06 '22

🍋🎉👴🏻

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u/NaturesResponse Oct 06 '22

Are there pornhub-fuelled circle jerks happening on a national scale and no one told me? When did everyone start watching porn?!?!

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u/FSB_AgentTrump Oct 06 '22

I dont recall a time the SEC actually did their jobs, so probably as long as its been around lol

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u/le_gasdaddy Oct 05 '22

Let em know I have a CD-R from october 2002 in my garage. Warcraft 3 is on there as well, probably OG version.

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u/Stinkyclamjuice15 Oct 05 '22

They need to klepaucius or rosebud their military budget and get some actual equipment while they're at it

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u/daizzy99 Oct 05 '22

or ‘motherlode’ (spelled exactly like that) lol

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u/Luxury-ghost Oct 06 '22 edited Oct 06 '22

That is how motherlode is supposed to be spelled

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u/macromorgan Oct 06 '22

Correct. Mother lode is the main concentration of ore when mining.

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u/Manch3st3rIsR3d Oct 06 '22

Lmao this guy I'm ded

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u/PluotFinnegan_IV Oct 05 '22

You have good reason to be. Dries Depoorter recently published "The Follower" project that used public CCTV footage to find when and where people were in the photos they uploaded to Instagram. A lot of the videos now have been pulled because of copyright (Big WTF) but using the same technology it's not hard to think that Russia, or anyone really, could review CCTV footage in/around this place and identify the person in the photo.

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u/JohnnyValet Oct 05 '22 edited Oct 05 '22

At least he doesn't have any fingerprints. Looks pro-level to me.

Edit - I never said 'burned'.

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u/ShellOilNigeria Oct 05 '22

certain distinctive features of weather and especially on a presumably CCTV surveilled place.

All they would need to do is have an analyst comb the footage of when the cars were there, matched with people (like the two red shirts) directly in front of the cars, matched with the time of day, etc.

We are talking about Russia though. Apparently the FBI couldn't figure out who planted bombs during the Jan 6th insurrection after all. So maybe not.

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u/Anyashadow Oct 05 '22

I'm sure they know, they are just keeping it quiet so they can see how far up the chain they can go.

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u/hagenissen666 Oct 05 '22

They can't arrest MTG, she's in Congress!

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u/IrishRepoMan Oct 05 '22

Oh I hope so

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u/throwaweigh12212 Oct 05 '22

Pretty sure that was on purpose.

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u/kerelberel Oct 05 '22 edited Oct 05 '22

That is only an issue if you instantly publish the photo after taking it. This guy could have posted the photo hours or days later and would still be untraceable.

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u/fubarbob Oct 05 '22 edited Oct 05 '22

Assuming the clock is correct, if you're able to work out their exact location at that time, then you only need to check that one little point for each day's footage. (presuming that CCTV cameras are fairly common there)

edit: and good point, assuming they actually work xD

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u/jagnew78 Oct 05 '22

If the cameras are anything like the rest of Russian equipment half of them aren't working, some are just a plastic box made to look like a camera, and the rest are so low resolution everyone is basically a blur

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u/Qaz_ Oct 05 '22 edited Oct 05 '22

This is true for most places but Moscow is the exception (and maybe St. Petersburg to a lesser degree). Russia has always invested lots into the city & it generally is very modern/cosmopolitan, at least in the parts they care about. It robs from the other regions to further enrich its crown jewels. Russia also has a strong IT/computer science sector, so developing camera surveillance systems is absolutely not beyond its capabilities.

The CCTV camera density in Moscow isn't as much as, say, London (which has a reputation for how many cameras it has), but it still has almost 200k cameras - at least 100k of which have facial recognition integrated into them. They also have been deploying technology to identify people by other factors like tattoos, voice, and gait (gait tends to be unique to a person and a potential identifier of a person)

I know people like to make fun of Russia and their military, and it's absolutely the truth that the nation is corrupt as shit and not capable of as much as it has claimed to be, but if there is one thing the regime knows to take seriously is the reinforcement of the police state in the areas it cares heavily about (like Moscow).

edit: Also, this pic was taken in one of the most prominent parts of Moscow so there absolutely are police around & cameras all over the place. I'm pretty sure you can even see some cameras in the picture on the light pole in the distance center-right. They likely could be identified by a motivated actor by correlating details like the angle the picture was taken (enough info exists to determine the person's location relative to the objects), cloud pattern at that time, location of other people relative to that person, etc. The question is more whether the state is motivated enough to invest the time and resources looking for that one person, and they may very well not be.

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u/--Lust-- Oct 05 '22

Fwiw, London has the reputation of having shit CCTV footage quality (ie. useless)

Source: live in london

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u/Ready-Pangolin-1352 Oct 05 '22

This would be be very easy to photoshop the hand in

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u/Sereshk_Polo Oct 05 '22

He probably wore cap, mask and sunglasses. No useful info

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u/Rubbrbandman420 Oct 05 '22

That’s the patch of the Ukrainian Insurgent Army isn’t it?

Love the rehash from the past

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u/Chrysalliss Oct 05 '22

what is the badge?

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u/RobotWantsKitty Oct 05 '22

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u/WikiSummarizerBot Oct 05 '22

Ukrainian Insurgent Army

The Ukrainian Insurgent Army (Ukrainian: Українська повстанська армія, УПА, romanized: Ukrayins'ka povstans'ka armiia, abbreviated UPA) was a Ukrainian nationalist paramilitary and later partisan formation. During World War II, it was engaged in guerrilla warfare against the Soviet Union, the Polish Underground State, Communist Poland, and Nazi Germany. It was established by the Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists.

[ F.A.Q | Opt Out | Opt Out Of Subreddit | GitHub ] Downvote to remove | v1.5

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u/green_flash Oct 05 '22

I'll never understand how that organization is glorified so much in Ukraine.

The massacres of Poles in Volhynia and Eastern Galicia were carried out in German-occupied Poland by the Ukrainian Insurgent Army, or the UPA, with the support of parts of the local Ukrainian population against the Polish minority in Volhynia, Eastern Galicia, parts of Polesia and Lublin region from 1943 to 1945. The peak of the massacres took place in July and August 1943. Most of the victims were women and children. Many of the Polish victims regardless of age or gender were tortured before being killed; some of the methods included rape, dismemberment or immolation, among others. The UPA's actions resulted in between 50,000 and 100,000 deaths.

Attacks on Poles during the massacres in Volhynia and Eastern Galicia were marked with extreme sadism and brutality. Rape, torture and mutilation were commonplace. Poles were burned alive, flayed, impaled, crucified, disembowelled, dismembered and beheaded. Women were gang raped and had their breasts sliced off, children were hacked to pieces with axes, babies were impaled on bayonets and pitchforks or bashed against trees.

The atrocities were carried out indiscriminately and without restraint. The victims, regardless of their age or gender, were routinely tortured to death

In Polish-Ukrainian families, one common UPA instruction was to kill one's Polish spouse and children born of that marriage. People who refused to carry such an order were often murdered, together with their entire family.

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u/infinis Oct 05 '22

It was a symbol of the nationalist movement that was glorified by then goverment to distract the population from corruption problems. It was then propulsed to a symbol of ukrainian nationalism where most people dont know its roots.

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u/0xnld Oct 05 '22 edited Oct 06 '22

I'll never understand how that organization is glorified so much in Ukraine.

Soviet propaganda backfiring.

They were painted as these evil anti-Soviet bourgeois nationalists, who at some later point got teamed up with the evil cosmopolitan zionist Jews, per USSR foreign policy. I'm not kidding. It's a 70s caricature from a Soviet Ukrainian satirical monthly "Perets" (Pepper).

Which in turn lionized them as a symbol of the struggle against Soviet Union. That's basically all that the general public had to go on about OUN and Bandera, who was interned by Germans in 1941 and never set foot in the country again.

I don't think the Volyn tragedy got much press at the time either, here or in Communist Poland. All the public commemorations happened after the fall of the Warsaw bloc afaik. Weird, but somewhat in line with the Soviet policy on Holocaust in xUSSR which downplayed its ethnic (anti-Semitic) aspects. For instance, a Soviet memorial in Babi Yar said "to executed Soviet citizens and POWs". Only in 1991 did a proper one go up.

eta: besides, as Polish Wikipedia says, there is some consensus that NKVD had a hand in stirring up tensions between Poles and Ukrainians in Volyn which was occupied by the Soviets between 39-41.

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u/Gweenbleidd Oct 05 '22 edited Oct 05 '22

I just want to add on top of what everyone already answered, red and black - our historical resistance colors and it's what Ukrainian flag turns to when it's covered in blood

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u/Many-Lawfulness-9770 Oct 06 '22

That's a metal af backstory

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u/batangbronse Oct 06 '22

ngl, that's badass af

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u/Kastrenzo Oct 05 '22

The red and black flag has a lot of different uses.

Some see it as a nationalist or right wing aligned symbol
others see it simply as a "war flag" or a symbol of resistance.

whatever the case. The people who are actually committing babyraping and genocide, get mighty mad about these symbols and ideas, and that's all that really matters.

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u/[deleted] Oct 05 '22

Red and black is the universal flag of rebellion.

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u/MagosBiologis Oct 06 '22

Red, the blood of angry men!

Black, the dark of ages past!

Red, a world about to dawn!

Black, the night that ends at last!

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u/TheWorclown Oct 05 '22

I’m reminded of a quote that a leader/activist (I can’t remember, I’m afraid) sent to Stalin. It went along the lines of:

“Stop sending people to kill me! You have sent several men that we have stopped in attempts to take my life. The next time it happens, I shall send someone to you, and I will only need to send ONE.”

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u/Watdabny Oct 06 '22

It was Tito in Yugoslavia as I recall

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u/wvs1453 Oct 05 '22

Most reporting I have seen on it suggests that, while their ideologies certainly align, Dugin and Putin have very little in the way of any direct relationship. His ideology provides a useful philosophical foundation for Putin’s imperialist ambitions but that is about it. Wouldn’t call him a top aid. The attack should worry Putin, certainly, but I don’t think we should look at this the same as if a top military or administrative official, with full security detail, was the target or victim.

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u/Ramental Oct 05 '22

I also struggle to understand the importance of Dugin. He's exceptionally unknown, and his death would bring no benefits like it would, were it some TV propagandist or Duma member. His days of importance were already gone.

Whoever did that must've held personal or other particularly defined grudge against Dugin, for it's an insignificant target from the perspective of the conflict.

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u/light_trick Oct 06 '22 Silver

He's perceived as important - enough that the FSB run protection on events he attends.

This hit would be a target of opportunity I suspect: Dugin's an asshole propagandist, who orbits leadership. And the message you really want to send to leadership, who currently think the war can't touch them, but Putin can, is that so long as the war is happening, Ukranians will try to kill you too and they can.

What Ukraine really needs is Russian leadership who now have to factor into their plans "Putin might kill me" with an additional "but there are also Ukranian agents who will definitely kill me if we keep the war up". Because that's how you shift the needle on "maybe we should overthrow this Putin guy" in your favor.

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u/pokpiko Oct 05 '22

Dugin's insane mytho-political views influenced a lot of russian propaganda and ideals. Just look at last speech from Putin, with the "satanistic" west, and the obsessive calling US and UK "anglo-saxons".

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u/Outrageous-Yams Oct 05 '22

Influenced some right wing views here in the US too, whether people know it or not.

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u/iampachyderm Oct 05 '22

Yup. The Foundation of Geopolitics has had its fingerprints all over world these last few decades. Everything Putin has done has been right out of that playbook

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u/Archerfenris Oct 06 '22

Dugin is not unknown. He is a well established international relations theorist in Russia. Does he hold much sway in the Kremlin? Probably more now than he did. His power lay in the ideas he propagates to young Russian students of International Relations and the poison he whispers into the ears of Putin and his inner circle.

But I agree his death serves little purpose.

Source: wrote my master’s Thesis on the Russian government and it included numerous pages on Dugin and his Neo Fascist Geopolitics theories

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u/NegotiationExternal1 Oct 06 '22

What’s he been up to since his daughter passed?

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u/Implausibilibuddy Oct 06 '22

his death serves little purpose.

If nothing else it would be massively symbolic given everything his little fanfic has caused over the last 20+ years.

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u/Outrageous-Yams Oct 05 '22 edited Oct 05 '22

He wrote out essentially all major geopolitical actions that putin has taken thusfar, decades ago in foundations of geopolitics.

(Ok, I’m exaggerating slightly but the major shit is all there.)

He’s also been pumping out propaganda/books/etc which are then co-opted by right wing media here in the US, just rebranded on some no-name, right-wing, “American news” site. Once you begin to dig into it, it’s pretty messed up.

If you want to go down a small rabbit hole, you can look at who “reviews” his books…all linked on the site that sells them…they’re not great people/sites.

Highlights include ties to people who have self-identified as nazi/white supremacists (and enough so that they have their own wiki page…).

Edit for more details.

Edit- in my experience, nearly every one of my Dugin comments gets downvoted at first. Have had multiple accounts, been here since digg, not my first rodeo. I have seen it before and I know there are supporters in these comments trying to hide the truth of this.

PS…Wanna know something? See all of this anti-trans talk from the GOP to try to rile up their base? And the same kinda talk from the GOP/right wing media? That‘s another topic Dugin touches upon in one of his books, perhaps one of the central themes actually. I mean, come on. It’s so goddamn obvious. He’s a damn white supremacist extremist who is feeding this shit to Russia and the GOP, and is being partially funded by some of those very people in the US via book sales and whatnot.

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u/Adrunkdawg Oct 05 '22

Also notably a friend of Alex Jones…strange

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u/Outrageous-Yams Oct 05 '22

I don’t think I was aware of that.

Interesting indeed.

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u/[deleted] Oct 05 '22

Dugin and Putin have never been photographed together. He lost his job at Moscow university several years ago after criticizing Putin as well. He is absolutely not a “top aid”.

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u/DragonCat88 Oct 05 '22

They threw that other guy off the boat too and the rest out of windows. I think they pushed someone down some steps as well.

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u/dextter123456789 Oct 05 '22

What about the guy running against Putin who was shot dead on the bridge just as a truck was driving by.

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u/Taurius Oct 05 '22

Do not interfere when the enemy is making mistakes.

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u/Sisyphuslivinlife Oct 06 '22

Not making mistakes, Putin is killing these people so he can gather their wealth. Think Deniro after the big robbery in Goodfellas.

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u/Gold-Exercise2860 Oct 06 '22

Ah yes, Goodfellas...

Now you got me convinced

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u/PrussiaThr0waway Oct 05 '22

That one was probably Putin's doing, not Ukraine's.

I imagine Putin and Zelenskyy both share some blame for the deaths of various Russian officials, depending on where their loyalty was and who wanted them dead. It's like a political chess match, but Ukraine has their pawns all up in Russia's side of the board, and Russia is taking their own pawns off the board.

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u/youreloser Oct 05 '22

Do you think either of them would do false flag assassinations?

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u/bluewardog Oct 06 '22

Russia has been accused of bombing a whole block of flats as a false flag. One dude is nothing.

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u/TheCobbledTiger Oct 06 '22

They were straight up caught attempting a bombing shortly after that one.

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u/DragonCat88 Oct 05 '22

Hilary Clinton’s emails. Hunter Bidens laptop was driving.

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u/EmbarrassedNaivety Oct 06 '22

I can’t stop laughing at this comment for some reason!

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u/SSHeretic Oct 05 '22

It killed a Russian nationalist (whose father was one too).

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u/westberry82 Oct 05 '22

A father who said it is an honor to die for Russia.

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u/WebbityWebbs Oct 05 '22 Wholesome

It is always good to fight an enemy who wants to die for their country, because then you have the same goals.

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u/westberry82 Oct 05 '22

That's what the business world calls synergy.

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u/GenericSubaruser Oct 05 '22

And business is BOOMIN'!

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u/Sharl_LeKek Oct 05 '22

I'd watch a show where a soldier goes around using business cliches before blasting away the enemy.

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u/weatherdog Oct 05 '22

Not a show, but that's basically how the New Conglomerate soldiers talk in Planetside 2. Their "thanks" voiceline is "I'll make sure the suit cuts you a bonus check". That's the one voice line I remember and it's been 6 years since I stopped playing.

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u/tumama1388 Oct 06 '22

Or the one I remember: That brought new meaning to 'hostile takeover'

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u/SkyezOpen Oct 06 '22

"I think it's time for a little..."

Racks shotgun

"Internal restructuring"

BOOM

Rock music

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u/XWarriorYZ Oct 05 '22

“No bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making some other poor dumb bastard die for his country.”

-General Patton

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u/ImNotAWhaleBiologist Oct 05 '22

“The point of war isn’t to die for your country, it’s to make the other poor son-of-a-bitch die for his!” - George Payton, at least in the movie.

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u/swampnuts Oct 06 '22

George Payton

When you order George Patton on Wish.

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u/DoomOne Oct 06 '22

"This Russian wants to die for his country! OBLIGE HIM!"

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u/jas656 Oct 05 '22
  • General Tacticus
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u/DaneLame Oct 05 '22

Ukraine: “Oh yeah?…hold my beer”

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u/VagrantShadow Oct 05 '22

Ukraine: "Let's put your words to the test..."

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u/green_flash Oct 05 '22

She wasn't the intended target though. Way too unimportant to be assassinated.

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u/SkipCycle Oct 05 '22

Her dad was presumably going to be in that car on the way home but changed plans last minute. As for her being unimportant ... she certainly had some importance. https://www.nytimes.com/2022/08/21/world/europe/daria-dugina-russia-politics.html

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u/green_flash Oct 05 '22

As the article says she wasn't even widely known in Russia:

Ms. Dugina was not well known in Russia beyond ultranationalist and imperialist circles.

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u/ehubblax16 Oct 05 '22

Pretty sure those are the only “circles” that matter and hold power in Russia.

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u/dextter123456789 Oct 05 '22

Just like any circle in life either you are in it or you are out of it.

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u/lord_ive Oct 05 '22

Would an Iraqi be justified in killing the child of one of the architects of the Iraq war?

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u/AgitatedAge2318 Oct 05 '22

I almost take delight in the fact that he’s still alive because he literally has to wonder, every time he stands in front of a window, steps outside, hears a creak in the floorboards, when death is coming for him.

Ukraine gonna Final Destination his ass.

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u/Zaphiel_495 Oct 06 '22

Sure totally agree.

State sponsered terrorism is the way of the future!

Seems like the radical Islamists were ahead of the curve.

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u/cavscout43 Oct 05 '22

The lack of transparency about Ukraine’s military and covert plans has reportedly led to frustration among U.S. officials, according to The New York Times.

I mean, the last commander in chief literally held them hostage economically to try and get them to scam an election, and was giving his boyfriend in the Kremlin US classified secrets on the regular. I can't blame Ukraine for keeping the US at arm's length when it comes to their most important plans.

Don't need another Rand Paul "sudden mysterious trip to Moscow without explanation" happening if he hears what Kyiv is planning next.

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u/Living_la_vida_hobo Oct 05 '22

I can't blame Ukraine for keeping the US at arm's length when it comes to their most important plans.

ESPECIALLY if that same person becomes president AGAIN.

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u/HappierShibe Oct 05 '22

This is what confuses me, people are acting like Trump is out of the picture.
He's not. We need to stay on top of this shit, it ain't over til it's over.

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u/Bizzlebanger Oct 05 '22 edited Oct 06 '22

If Trump had "won" the second election, Ukraine would be dead by now.

Edit typo

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u/HappierShibe Oct 05 '22

I'm not saying Trump won anything, I'm saying he can run again in 2024; he also continues to exert considerable political influence.

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u/Bizzlebanger Oct 05 '22

Oh.. I wasn't claiming he won, sorry if I came across confrontational or anything like that... I'm just glad he's not in power, for Ukraine's sake. I'm glad for all the aid from the USA they are receiving, come November, it could all suddenly stop..

Trump is a dangerous force, and will be until he is dead.

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u/MeatPlug69 Oct 05 '22

The presidential election isn't until 2024 in USA and whoever wins would become president Jan 20th 2025 so hopefully by that time the war is over. There has been great bipartisan support in congress for Ukraine aid which surprises me a little tbh and we *shouldn't* have any worries about aid being effected even if the Republicans win control of congress.

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u/HappierShibe Oct 05 '22

I Think he's probably more dangerous dead, We need to convict him, then we just throw his ass in Florence and lose the key.

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u/EternalPinkMist Oct 05 '22

I think they meant had*

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u/SuspectNo7354 Oct 05 '22

This could be a response to Ukraine offering veto power over their military operations if the US supplies long range missiles.

It's like the US saying we know you keep things from us, but we won't say it publicly. We can't exactly trust you when we know things.

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u/antihateguyy Oct 06 '22

This. Veto power means nothing without trust.

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u/EastBoxerToo Oct 06 '22

Both that and also telling the world that Ukraine is a lot more capable of clandestine attacks than anyone believed possible.

The timing is what's most interesting - the whole world is wondering who just quietly and expertly backed Russia into an existential corner, and here comes the USA saying "hey guys, you know those Ukrainians are some bad news bombslinging mofos."

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u/Rumpullpus Oct 05 '22

especially considering the US government has made it pretty clear by its actions that it has no intention to clean house anytime soon.

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u/notyourvader Oct 05 '22

Absolutely right. If the Trump family can get security clearance, no secret is safe. You never know who's gonna be president next.

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u/PaidToBeRedditing Oct 06 '22

eh, a titel like that is just provocative. Of course its frustrating for the US not to know whats going on inside the Ukranian government, its a tense situation that has ramifications on a lot of other countries. Those other countries are probably a bit annoyed too.

The people who are frusted also know to just shut the fuck up, because those people are fighting a war, and its not their fucking job to send an email like "hey folks, heres all our war plans and covert ops, thanks for the support, dont forward hehe xxx", regardless of the US' last shitty leader.

The only shitty people here are the ones running an industry that rewards a reporter for trying hard enough and going deep enough to get this sort of verifiable information about the opinions of the US military and then twisting them into something I would spent way too long forming an opinion and typing this waffling bullshit rant, in order to get clicks or view time or wahtever.

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u/this_sort_of_thing Oct 05 '22

Uh huh, at the same time Ukraine would be toast without US support. It’ll probably generate controversy “but Europe is helping too” but let’s be honest when it comes to military shit the Americans are always gonna be winning.

The relationship isn’t perfect, and the US defo doesn’t help by having bipolar governance

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u/urmyheartBeatStopR Oct 05 '22

GOP have tons of Russian puppets.

Russia air Tucker Carlson shows for propaganda.

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u/ActualPopularMonster Oct 05 '22

I can't blame Ukraine for keeping the US at arm's length when it comes to their most important plans.

If I were the Ukrainians, I would absolutely NOT trust the US Government right now. The whole world is just waiting for us to fuck up again and elect Trump or someone worse. We can't be trusted until we can prove that someone like Trump won't be elected again. Or at least until we properly deal with that bag of fecal trash the way he deserves.

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u/cavscout43 Oct 05 '22

The whole world is just waiting for us to fuck up again and elect Trump or someone worse.

They likely don't trust the GOP apparatus as a whole: Faux News (and Cousin Fucker Carlson) were *very* hawkish in support of Russia and trashing Ukraine. A large chunk of the GOP have been splitting their time 50/50 between deepthroating Putin and blocking Ukraine aid bills.

Republican voters in general have been fed the idiotic "Biden's bankrupting the country and making gas $3 a gallon by giving all our resources to Ukraine!" and are too stupid and/or emotionally hooked by their beloved reactionary propaganda to even question how logically broken and ridiculous that argument is.

If I was in Zelenskyy's shoes, I 100% wouldn't tell the US *anything* that could be used against him for blackmail, or to help Putin. The GOP have very clearly worn their "I'd rather be Russian than democrat" treason on their sleeves since well...they wore shirts literally saying that to their KKK, Trump rallies./cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/11932223/Dj2e0w9VAAAraKs.jpg)

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u/WoldunTW Oct 05 '22 edited Oct 05 '22

It won't be the last. Putin started a chain-reaction of death that will continue on even after his miserable life has ended. All because some rich crooks wanted to be richer crooks.

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u/DonDove Oct 05 '22

Isn't the song usually always that?

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u/CMDR_Crook Oct 05 '22

Wish I was richer

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u/bobert_the_grey Oct 05 '22

I wish I was a little bit taller I wish I was a baller I wish I had a girl who looked good I would call her

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u/allergic-toeveryting Oct 05 '22

I wish I had a rabbit in a hat with a bat And a six four Impala

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u/Ok_Anything_5052 Oct 06 '22

Reminds me of the time Stalin tried to kill Tito of Yugoslavia. Tito sent a letter threatening to kill Stalin after capturing numerous assassins and Stalin stopped fucking with him.

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u/BeepBeepGoJeep Oct 06 '22 Gold

The famed rebel leader Omar Mukhtar once saw his fighters mistreat Italian POWs and he berated them. They asked, "why are they allowed to torture us and we cannot respond?"

He replied, "they are not your teachers."

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u/Zaphiel_495 Oct 06 '22

Well said. At least there are some sane voices here.

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u/custardcreamdreams Oct 05 '22

Serious question: when this happened people were making the reasonable-sounding point that this wasn't really worth the effort, even if the target had been her dad. Was that completely misguided (or even misleading)?

He had his ideas, and they may have influenced Russian policy, but it's not like he's some crystal power source where you can just kill him and people stop being twats.

Was it a dry run to send a message?

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u/Catharas Oct 05 '22

That’s what the article said, that the US was annoyed they took the risk of operating in Russia just to kill a mouthpiece, not a general or an ammo depot.

That said, they were very prominent and extreme mouthpieces, and it may have just been a case of seeing an opportunity and taking it.

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u/akali_otp Oct 05 '22

Tbh the US has a history of doing dumb shit like that too with Letelier and Moffitt. Kill off the people who represent an opposing agenda, even if it's super unnecessary since they don't really provide any value to the cause you're fighting.

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u/AdEmbarrassed6310 Oct 06 '22

Letelier was killed by Manuel Contreras, under the supervision of Pinochet. It soured the relationship between Chile and USA.

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u/TheCobbledTiger Oct 06 '22

Id say mouths are dangerous. They definitely hold significant power and most keep that power thinking they’re untouchable due to their well placed position of little influence on policy and too much publicity to warrant being silenced. The thing is they tend to motivate more and more to their side and turn a conspiracy into a grass roots movement. Silencing even one can cause others to rethink their roll and try to change their roll to being more in the shadows.

Look at what happened after the assassinations of Robert Kennedy and MLK, stopped the civil rights movement to a point little additional progress was made beyond Roe v Wade which was decided by justices appointed before those assassinations

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u/ZiggyStardustEP Oct 05 '22

It begs the question to what extent the various branches of government are truly working together. Discussed when this first happened with a friend and my gut reaction is that this was a security/military branch or group going way too far or rogue. I think the attack was born out of anger and a desire for a symbolic message. Personally, I think its a dangerous tactic with no real benefit.

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u/esmifra Oct 05 '22

I was one of those guys. Of course I was proven to know jack shit and was shown to be just a guy with access to the internet that has an opinion.

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u/MsEscapist Oct 06 '22

Your assessment of the amount of sense it made was correct, you just forgot that people and even governments don't always do what makes sense.

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u/[deleted] Oct 05 '22

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u/Jj-woodsy Oct 05 '22

Honestly, this should frighten Putin considering this happened right under his security forces nose.

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u/Executioneer Oct 06 '22

I dont think Dugin was someone top priority to defend for FSB

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u/maikuuuuuu Oct 06 '22

Read the headline and couldn’t stop the “oh well” in my brain being said vocally

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u/SpaceTabs Oct 05 '22

FYI - Russia assassinated several high level Ukranian leaders in the past few years.

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u/Dyldor Oct 05 '22

When I lived in Kyiv I went to visit my friend after work near Kreschatyk, and he informed me a political assassination had happened on the street metres from where we were standing a couple of hours earlier.

There wasn’t a shadow of a doubt it was the Russians behind it. Shit, these guys have made numerous high profile assassinations (and attempts) in the UK in the last few years, let alone in Ukraine. When you fight dirty expect the response to be escalated to a similar level.

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u/SpaceTabs Oct 05 '22

Was it June 2017? May have been this guy.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maksym_Shapoval

"Ukraine held the chief of the counter-intelligence operations department of the FSB of the Russian Federation Lieutenant-General Dmitry Minaev, personally responsible for ordering the assassinations of both Col. Shapoval and another special service operative Col. Oleksandr Kharaberyush of the SBU back on 31 March 2017."

This one was in Mariupol:

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-ukraine-crisis-blast/ukrainian-intelligence-officer-killed-in-car-blast-in-mariupol-port-idUSKBN1721GE

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u/Dyldor Oct 05 '22

Nah it was a little earlier than that, some time in 2015 I’m fairly sure (if not 2016 but I doubt it). Maybe spring? I can’t remember exactly as it was quite a long time ago and it wasn’t exactly a defining moment of my life.

It was just off Lva Tolstoho if I remember correctly.

It could possibly have been a corruption/organised crime related hit, and it was a shooting (pretty much point blank to the head if I remember) but other than that I can’t remember a thing

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u/prudence2001 Oct 05 '22

Why doesn't the US government just keep that a secret?

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u/EtonSAtom Oct 05 '22

I'm going to share with you what the article says as opposed to baseless speculation:

Countries traditionally do not discuss other nations’ covert actions, for fear of having their own operations revealed, but some American officials believe it is crucial to curb what they see as dangerous adventurism, particularly political assassinations.

American officials, at least the ones who gave this to the NYT and it does seem to have beeb approved for release officially, are of the opinion such assassinations aren't helpful on the battlefield and could risk detrimental escalation by Putin (like renewed assassination attempts against Ukrainians)

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u/Rumpullpus Oct 05 '22

renewed assassination attempts? they've never stopped.

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u/ZiggyEarthDust Oct 06 '22

Yeah, like WTF? It's all out war.

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u/your_mamas_ass Oct 05 '22

Why the white house will not release an official statement, instead of "unnamed officials" (which could be anyone, including just a payed for article)?

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u/Technical-Traffic871 Oct 05 '22

Could be psy ops like others said. Or the US wants to look like they can operate impartial investigations as they begin looking into who blew several holes in Nord Stream.

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u/Vuiz Oct 05 '22

It's a way to send a message to the Ukrainian government "Do not do it again".

Car bombings killing civilians inside Russia is a can of worms that neither NATO or Zelenskyj wants.

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u/zzxxccbbvn Oct 05 '22

Couldn't the US just tell that to them directly though?

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u/Vuiz Oct 05 '22

I'm sure they did but that does not always mean they responded well to it. My guess is that they got some pushback or felt that they did not respond to the reprimand, hence it goes public.

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u/[deleted] Oct 05 '22

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u/Odd_Background6167 Oct 06 '22

What are peoples opinions on why the US are making such a show of distancing them selves from this?

Do they want to make a clesr distinction between the war in Ukraine and spy games on Russian soil?

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u/ga-co Oct 05 '22

There were alleged to be death squads looking for the leader of Ukraine during the first days of the war. What? Is Ukraine supposed to operate by different rules?

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u/IdontNeedPants Oct 05 '22

What? Is Ukraine supposed to operate by different rules?

Yeah they are, have you not been watching how they treat Russian captives?

Should Ukraine be setting up torture chambers in captured towns like Russia? Of course not, thats idiotic. Just because Russia does something, does NOT make it acceptable for others.

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u/nickel4asoul Oct 05 '22

I'm in general agreement but that just serves to show Ukraine in an even better light. A country literally under attack with its whole infrastructure disrupted is doing more to uphold its international agreements than the aggressor, but we also want them to limit their offensive actions to within their own borders? Which borders? The ones it used to have or the new ones Russia is trying to draw?

In an ideal world there'd never be a civilian death in war, but covert warfare, espionage and even terrorism (or shock and awe as some countries put it) are unfortunately a part of warfare now. To expect Ukraine to resist making attempts on the Russian hierarchy (even if they fail) is to impose a higher expectation upon a victimised country than we do aggressor nations.

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u/Spare-Bumblebee8376 Oct 05 '22

Yes of course Ukraine is supposed to operate by different rules or more accurately hold itself to a much higher moral standard than Russia does.

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u/Time-Ad-3625 Oct 06 '22

They have to or they'll lose the world's support.

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u/Advanced_Unit420 Oct 06 '22

hopefully putin gets surprised like the daughter of the russian nationalist

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u/[deleted] Oct 05 '22

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u/[deleted] Oct 05 '22

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u/Papashvilli Oct 05 '22

Russians in Ukraine, kinda seems dumb to think they can’t cross the border and do things in your country…

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u/Kumashirosan Oct 06 '22

Curious.... are there any war conflicts that are won by good guys who played 100% by the rules?

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u/GodsendNYC Oct 05 '22

I'm not shedding any tears but somehow I doubt that's the case. There are many more important targets to be had. Why bother with small fries?

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u/benign_said Oct 05 '22

If the intended target (her father) had died it would have been pretty symbolic. That said, I could just as easily believe that some Russians were trying to kill him too.

"Ukraine as a state has no geopolitical meaning, no particular cultural import or universal significance, no geographic uniqueness, no ethnic exclusiveness, its certain territorial ambitions represents an enormous danger for all of Eurasia and, without resolving the Ukrainian problem, it is in general senseless to speak about continental politics"

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u/Riptide360 Oct 05 '22

Seems like a counter spook ploy to try and throw Putin off the trail of the oligarchs who would do Putin in. US has no reason to point the finger at Ukraine otherwise.

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u/aKnightWh0SaysNi Oct 05 '22 Take My Energy

Who are you, so wise in the ways of military intelligence?

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u/[deleted] Oct 05 '22

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u/MaverickTopGun Oct 05 '22

Lol love all the galaxy brain geopolitics takes from people who think everything is a James Bond movie. It's much much more likely that Ukraine was actually responsible for the attack. And guess what? Nothing wrong with it. If anything it's a huge spook to Putin, knowing how close and deep the Ukrainians can get.

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u/Gagurass Oct 05 '22

Doesn’t make sense with all the nuclear saber rattling Russia is doing, as this could be another reason for them to launch a tactical strike. Most likely US is pissed Ukraine did this when the Ukrainians have been told not to engage in any type of bad PR moves while the U.S. is giving so much intel/aid. This is just us covering our asses.

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u/zhaoz Oct 05 '22

Consider it a special combat operation. If true.

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u/cobrakai11 Oct 05 '22

Man the comments in here are sick. All the same people who claimed that this was Putin's doing, and that Ukraine would never kill a civilian, are now sitting here shrugging their shoulders saying "well she deserved it, all fair in love and war."

Just another sign that people twist the narrative to fit whatever they believe.

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