r/worldnews Oct 06 '22

Nord Stream investigation finds evidence of detonations, Swedish police say

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/kremlin-says-russia-not-invited-nord-stream-investigation-2022-10-06/
4.4k Upvotes

448

u/Beowoulf355 Oct 06 '22 edited Oct 06 '22

I don't see them mention if the pipes showed detonation from the inside or outside. If from the inside then someone put explosives on maintenance pigs and blow them up at designated locations. If from the outside, it will be harder to prove who did it unless they find other evidence.

Edit: https://www.rigzone.com/training/insight.asp?insight_id=310&c_id=

451

u/Lowkey_Retarded Oct 06 '22

I’m sure it’s an industry term, but man, I really love the idea of literal maintenance pigs.

114

u/jumpsteadeh Oct 06 '22

Turns out the pipes were made out of straw and wood. It's a mystery they held out as long as they did, really.

55

u/Black_Moons Oct 07 '22

that is why they wanted to switch to nordstream 3. It was made from brick. But first they needed to get nordstream 2 running before they could continue the story.

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u/dkyguy1995 Oct 07 '22

Putin gonna huff and puff and blow this pipe away

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u/faceintheblue Oct 07 '22 edited Oct 07 '22

I used to work in pipeline maintenance. They were called pigs before they came up with a backronym to explain it. Apparently the earliest models were little more than hay bales wrapped in barbed wire screaming down pipes to descale/unclog, and if you were standing near a pipe with one going by inside it went, "Squeeeeeeeee!" As it passed. At least that's what some old timers told me. No idea if it's true, but it's a fun story.

Edit: Two typos.

6

u/cw- Oct 07 '22

it went, “Squeeeeeeeee!”

All the way home?

2

u/mortaneous Oct 07 '22

If you've ever been near high pressure piping, any restriction to flow definitely causes a squealing noise. A little blowby plus metal-on-metal contact would definitely squeal like a pig (or a banshee, if you prefer)

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u/CSI_Tech_Dept Oct 06 '22

For those who are interested, it looks like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cDte3cxeIxc

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u/brasetvik Oct 06 '22

You might enjoy a good “pig launcher” then. :) (Actual industry term)

🐷🚀

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u/StannisTheMantis93 Oct 06 '22

I just pictured a group of pigs hanging off a skyscraper and installing windows.

90

u/Lowkey_Retarded Oct 06 '22

I was imagining them sending a pig into the pipeline wearing a tool belt and hard hat, but I’m sure there’s a variety of careers for these hard-working porkers.

23

u/MrMonster911 Oct 06 '22

I'm convinced 100% identical, slightly cartoon-styled pictures formed in our minds, simultaneously.

15

u/ggouge Oct 06 '22

I am picturing spider pig from the simpsons movie. With a tool belt.

6

u/StrangePings Oct 07 '22

Can he blow up a pipeline? No he can’t, he’s a pig!

3

u/ggouge Oct 07 '22

You get me:)

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u/WonUpH Oct 06 '22

I was on Gamorreans with yellow hard hats

4

u/erocuda Oct 06 '22

Spider Pig, Spider Pig...

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u/activator Oct 06 '22

9

u/TheAuraTree Oct 06 '22

This is exactly what I needed.

8

u/jwlewington Oct 06 '22

Pigs have many uses...

https://youtu.be/wCm3ZZBae6I?t=48

3

u/betterwithsambal Oct 07 '22

"What kind of girl do you think I am? "

5

u/beamrider Oct 07 '22

Pigs are used in many sorts of pipes. For cleaning out fresh water mains, they're just a foam-and-rubber bullet-shaped plug pushed along by water pressure, scouring rust, scale, and the like off the inside of the pipe. They make a loud squealing noise when doing this, which is where the name "pig" came from.

3

u/PrestigeMaster Oct 06 '22

Pigs are a pain in the ass. Especially when they get stuck.

2

u/feedmetotheflowers Oct 06 '22

If this was a Frank Herbert book they would be called “Maintenance Dogs”

2

u/amadeus2490 Oct 07 '22

it’s an industry term

And it's dead-on balls accurate.

2

u/Jkay064 Oct 07 '22

Maintenance pigs are from Empire Strikes Back, cloud city.

2

u/wbbigdave Oct 07 '22

I genuinely only know this term because of James Bond having to smuggle himself and a cellist across the border in special maintenance pigs.

2

u/fodasmas Oct 07 '22

Maintenance Pig

Maintenance Pig

Does whatever a Maintenance Pig does.

Can he swing, from a web?

No he can't; cause he's a pig

LOOK OUT! He is a Maintenance Pig.

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u/GerryC Oct 06 '22

I thought that originally, but don't the pigs need flow to move them down the pipe?

29

u/Black_Light Oct 06 '22

Yes - Nord Stream pigs require flow. It can’t have been that unless the pipes were releasing gas downstream somehow.

32

u/RimmyRimmer Oct 06 '22

Pigs ordinarily need some form of propulsion yeah but I suppose someone could have made a self propelled bomb buggy of some description.

15

u/Langly- Oct 06 '22

If such was used they also could have been left sitting in place ever since the flow was cut.

25

u/20Characters_orless Oct 06 '22

That would be an impressive feat considering the MAOP of the Nordstream pipelines is 3200 psi and it would need to travel almost 1000 km

27

u/krad-31337 Oct 06 '22

The pressure isn't a huge deal. CNG pipeline crawlers exist. The pipelines were at 105 bar, less than half the MOAP.

The distance though would be a problem.

4

u/20Characters_orless Oct 07 '22

I'm not familiar with internal crawlers that would operate in a pressurized system, are you refering to conventional external crawlers that travel down the outside of the line? Not to get to far off in the weeds here, but I'm curious how the concrete jacket would impede external integrity inspections.

10

u/krad-31337 Oct 07 '22

No. Pipeline crawlers run inside pipes. They're usually for inspection, though some of them can do repair.

For example, the tethered GRAID can crawl 100 bar pipes.

There are untethered ones too like the Pipetel explorer (though that specific one can only handle 52 bar).

But going 1000 km? You'd need to put some big batteries on that unless someone has cracked low temperature methane fuel cells.

3

u/bjarkov Oct 07 '22

'If only there was a large quantity of energy somewhere near this explosive charge.. Oh wait!'

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u/Islandflava Oct 07 '22 edited Oct 07 '22

Wouldn’t expect concrete jacket to affect external integrity inspections, weights and continuous concrete coating on overland pipelines don’t affect external inspections

Edit: indirect inspections that is

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u/KrootLoops Oct 06 '22

Are you telling me we could be looking at a fucking The World is not Enough situation?

what even is this timeline

20

u/CoconutCyclone Oct 06 '22

I'm still not over them naming her Christmas Jones.

38

u/_ficklelilpickle Oct 06 '22

I know right? I thought Christmas only came once a year.

7

u/CoconutCyclone Oct 07 '22

I hate you for saying that, but I'm giving you an upvote because your username is fantastic.

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u/Drone30389 Oct 07 '22

Following in the fine tradition of Bond girl names like Honey Ryder, Pussy Galore, Plenty O'Toole, Chew Mee, and Holly Goodhead.

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u/fredagsfisk Oct 07 '22

I love the overly obvious parody ones in Austin Powers; Alotta Fagina, Robin Spitz-Swallows, Ivana Humpalot, Felicity Shagwell... the Fook Yu and Fook Mi twins...

3

u/HouseOfAplesaus Oct 07 '22

So we are supposed to wait for Denise Richards to drive a pipe driller and save us all. Welp. Hmm.

10

u/LuntiX Oct 06 '22

If from the inside then someone put explosives on maintenance pigs and blow them up at designated locations.

I’ve seen this bond movie, it was alright.

7

u/Explorer335 Oct 07 '22

I'm picturing the pipeline bomb scene from The World Is Not Enough.

One compelling bit of evidence is that Russia did not maintain pressure in the pipeline after the pressure began to drop. When a leak is detected, the pipes need to stay pressurized to prevent seawater intrusion, which ruins the pipe. The fact they allowed water intrusion suggests they were fine with the pipe getting ruined

8

u/bobstay Oct 07 '22

Not that I doubt Russia did it, but if there's a big enough hole in the pipe, surely you wouldn't be able to maintain pressure no matter how much gas you pump in.

2

u/Explorer335 Oct 07 '22

Pumping stations can pump air for exactly that purpose. The Gazprom pumping station can operate at up to 220bar, and the water pressure at that depth should only be 7bar. Perhaps it won't completely keep water out of the pipe, but it can certainly protect the vast majority of it. I would imagine 500 pounds of TNT makes quite a hole though.

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u/Arkane-Light Oct 06 '22

From the article:

"A crime scene investigation of the Nord Stream 1 and 2 gas pipelines has strenghtened suspicions of GROSS SABOTAGE involving detonations, Sweden's Security Service said on Thursday.

Swedish and Danish authorities have been investigating four leaks from the pipelines in Swedish and Danish exclusive economic zones in the Baltic Sea since they were spotted last week.

The Nord Stream 1 and 2 pipelines have been centre of a debate that has been going on amid the war in Ukraine between Russia and Europe, where Russia has been shutting the gas to European countries during the past months.

Moscow has tried blaming the West on the accident saying the US were to gain from the accident."

So, now that it is official that it is sabotage (drones were also spotted in the area), who is the culprit who wanted to damage Europe? Give your guesses people.

246

u/ledelleakles Oct 06 '22

Without a smoking gun, it is really difficult to say for sure. One side has a pretty long history with bombing things in false flag operations, however.

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u/HebrewHammer0033 Oct 06 '22

There is ALWAYS forensic evidence if you look for it.

21

u/tehmpus Oct 06 '22

I'm imagining that by examining the pieces of broken pipe, one could determine if the explosion was started from inside the pipe, or outside of it.

And the location of the pieces could determine if they were blown outward by an explosion, or impacted inward by a nearby exterior explosion.

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u/GeoGeoGeoGeo Oct 07 '22

Geoforensics

Gather the burned residue left behind by the combustion process (even microscopic amounts will do). Analyse it for its isotopic composition, which can then be used to identify the source of the explosive material and hence who has access to that specific composition / supplier.

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u/skooba87 Oct 07 '22

Reminds me of the bomb scene from Clear and Present Danger.

11

u/Winterplatypus Oct 07 '22

This internal/external debate seems to be alluding to the idea that internal=russia, external=someone else. External explosion is the most likely way it was done, and russia is the best equipped nation in the area to do externally. External explosion does not in any way clear russia or even make it less likely to be russia.

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u/Fox_Kurama Oct 08 '22

It was likely outside. Russian naval assets were in the area at the time. And at least someone there is likely competent enough to know that "if we explode it from the inside its too obvious."

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u/HebrewHammer0033 Oct 06 '22

Or torpedo fragments

17

u/lostkavi Oct 07 '22

Significantly easier and stealthier ways to blow up an underwater gas pipe than by torpedoing it.

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u/dick_himmel Oct 07 '22

Thats exactly what the torpedoer would want you to think

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u/happyscrappy Oct 07 '22

It's underwater and has been for days. A small current could carry evidence away.

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u/PaximusRex Oct 06 '22

One side? All sides have long histories of bombing things and false flag operations.

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u/skeetsauce Oct 06 '22 edited Oct 06 '22

The thing is, why would they destroy the small amount of leverage they had? Now they have nothing, makes no sense to do it to yourself when you’re bleeding resources on every other front. Makes a lot more sense that the US or one of its allies did it did imo. Fuck Russia for the record before someone says I’m supporting those evil fuckers.

Edit: I’m just saying I think Russia had the most to lose from this, why the fuck are people responding as if I’m personally sucking off putin? Chill out folks

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u/wastingvaluelesstime Oct 07 '22

one theory is that it's a commitment device so that elites in russia don't think that getting rid of putin would get their gas trade back

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commitment_device

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u/krad-31337 Oct 06 '22

They didn't destroy their leverage.

Nord Stream 2 line B wasn't damaged and there are two other pipelines (Yamal and Transgas) to Northern Europe for Russian gas with more free capacity than was destroyed.

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u/MsEscapist Oct 06 '22

For Russia it might not make sense, for Putin it makes perfect sense. If anyone was thinking it might be worth the risk of killing him to get the gas flowing again, oops that option is no longer on the table, and whoever might think they could use the revenue stream from that to quickly shore up support in the wake of a coup knows they can't.

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u/MrEff1618 Oct 07 '22

There's also the timing. I don't think it's a coincidence this happened shortly after the Baltic Pipe pipeline started pumping gas. The sabotage demonstrates that Russia has the capability to target undersea pipelines if they wish.

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u/therealganjababe Oct 06 '22

Plus the bonus of blaming it on the US.

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u/Vaadwaur Oct 06 '22

Its this. If some smart general put a bullet in the back of Putin's head, weathers the immediate storm of who gets the lead, and then orders a complete cessation to the Ukrainian war and offers to toss Crimea in as compensation there is that tiny chance that sanctions can be loosened. But without something tangible, like natural gas, to offer back to Europe they are still screwed.

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u/ledelleakles Oct 07 '22

This explanation makes the most universal sense to me

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u/SimUnit Oct 06 '22

You're assuming it was to exert leverage over Europe. It could also have been to defuse (or confuse) internal Russian factions that wanted to get "back to business".

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u/skeetsauce Oct 06 '22

So my assumptions are bad but your assumptions are not? I’m just calling it how I see it, I admit I don’t know anything but y’all that KNOW it was Putin directly.

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u/skyderper13 Oct 06 '22

if russia has demonstrated annything this past year, its their overwhelming capability for rationality, oops i meant the opposite of that. but if you look long enough enough at any party significant enough and you'll find ample motive and the capability. its hard to really definitely point at any one of them

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u/onegunzo Oct 06 '22

Canada Geese! Where were they on that day?

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u/Twudie Oct 06 '22

Knowing how evil Canadian geese are, likely carpet bombing an orphanage.

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u/stinkychzman Oct 06 '22

IF YOU’VE GOT A PROBLEM WITH CANADA GOOSES THEN YOU GOT A PROBLEM WITH ME NOW I SUGGEST YOU LET THAT ONE MARINATE.

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u/_Time_Traveler__ Oct 06 '22

Marinated Canadian goose. That sounds delicious!

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u/SpilledGenderFluid Oct 06 '22

Nah, Canadian Geese are the spawn of Satan.

Source: am Canadian

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u/Dazzling-Ad4701 Oct 06 '22

Okay I laughed.

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u/Ganglebot Oct 07 '22

Fuckin' Cobra-Chickens at it again!

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u/AngoGablogian_artist Oct 06 '22

You think sewer swans did this?

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u/PoPaOpp6Gun Oct 07 '22

Haha touche

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u/Bloodhound01 Oct 06 '22

Suspend Tom Brady 4 games.

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u/ajr901 Oct 06 '22

For being generally aware of the existence of missiles and explosives

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u/icematt12 Oct 06 '22

I'm kind of surprised Russia hasn't come out with flawed evidence accusing someone.

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u/WhyDeleteIt Oct 07 '22

They don't need to when the US is tacitly admitting it themselves, lol.

Biden said in February that the US would "put an end" to the Nord Stream pipeline. Olaf Scholz was present at this press conference. So the head of the German government was told bluntly by the American president that the decision on Nord Stream would not be taken in Berlin.

At the end of January, Nuland said: "If Russia invades Ukraine, Nord Stream 2 will not go forward one way or another."

And now we have Blinken saying that the destruction of Nord Stream is a "tremendous opportunity".

The US could not have stopped Nord Stream if it respected the law. The decisive legal leverage lies with the EU's energy law - and the US has absolutely no say in that. So the US only had the option to let it be or to blow it up.

Another bonus of the Nord Stream failure is that Germany now has to look for alternatives for gas supplies, such as expensive fracked gas from the USA. And as luck would have it, the Baltic Pipe, operated by Poland, Norway and Denmark, was opened practically on the same day as the Nord Stream destruction. On the American side, therefore, there would be both a clear motive, as admitted by its very own leaders, and the technical possibilities to carry out such an attack. Not insignificant is also the fact that shortly before the attack, a fleet of the US Navy had crossed the Fehmarn Belt and was exactly in the area where the leaks appeared.

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u/luntglor Oct 07 '22

everyone is focusing on countries .. but BigOil companies have enough resources to also do it.

it wouldn't surprise if this was a private operation .. from one of the companies that benefit from making sure Europe doesn't have second thoughts

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u/lo0l0ol Oct 06 '22

Where was Obamna on that day hmmmm?

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u/ElbisCochuelo1 Oct 06 '22

Wearing a tan suit and eating a burger with Dijon mustard at the same time.

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u/lo0l0ol Oct 06 '22 edited Oct 06 '22

He did go snorkeling once with national geographic. Not pointing any fingers but...

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u/irenepanik Oct 06 '22

National Geographic is leading terrorist training camps confirmed.

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u/niceguybadboy Oct 06 '22

Obamna

Who's Obamniak or whoever?

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u/ComradeBlyat308 Oct 07 '22

The armchair conspiracy theorists of my circles suspect either the US, as a way to fuck with Russia and ensure they stay cut off into the future, or Putin himself as a way to give less potential economic advantage to someone who might want to overthrow him.

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u/throwaway8u3sH0 Oct 07 '22

No way US would do this. Europe is already cooperating with them in the war and providing intel, weapons and aid to Ukraine. It would be monumentally stupid to risk a working alliance for no reason.

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u/eldmise Oct 07 '22

There was a chance that in case of harsh winter Europe tries to negotiate with Putin for gas. And it is impossible to rely on russian gas pipelines now, when there are people ready to blow them up

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u/paktsardines Oct 07 '22

Why would Russia damage their own pipeline when they could just turn off the tap?

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u/throwaway8u3sH0 Oct 07 '22

2 possible reasons I can think of:

  • they want the US-Europe alliance to point fingers at each other and infight.

  • Putin wants to avoid being overthrown by someone who'll restart the gas to Europe

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u/KrazyRooster Oct 07 '22

Because they would be liable for breaking multiple contracts, which would cost billions. If they just sabotage it and no one can prove it was them, then they are cutting the supply without paying any penalties.

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u/MrEff1618 Oct 07 '22

Few reasons:

  1. To remove it as leverage. No doubt the various intelligence services in NATO have been trying or have already made contact with Russian oligarchs and military officials. By suggesting the pipeline could resume operations were Putin to have an 'accident' or be deposed and Russian forces be withdrawn from Ukraine. it could act as a strong motivator for them to do something. That's not an option now.
  2. To hurt Europe. Putin had that little speech not long after it happened where he basically said he's had enough of the West and wants to punish Europe. Blowing up the pipeline now ensures there's no negotiations to bring it online over winter. I'm guessing he's hoping there will be civil unrest if countries can't provide power and heating over this time.
  3. Show of force. The damage happened shortly after the Baltic Pipe pipeline started pumping gas from Norway. This too is an undersea pipeline in places, and this attack demonstrates Russia has the ability to target undersea pipelines.
  4. False flag. No doubt in Russian media it's being blamed on NATO or America, so something to help stir up patriotism in the people.
  5. Insurance fraud. My opinion the least likely single motive, but a handy side effect, the pipeline hadn't been pumping gas for months before the bombing. Gazprom (49% owned by the Russian government) were claiming that equipment was damaged and could not be repaired since the sanctions were blocking the importation of replacement parts. They were facing serious legal action over breach of contracts and could have had foreign assets seized as compensation. Now they can blame the bombing.

In my opinion this was Putin showing what lengths he'd go to (both to those in Russia and Europe) to stay in power. Behind the scenes there is a lot going on that we probably won't hear about for tens of years, but will help this act make sense.

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u/Palimon Oct 06 '22

We'll know in 50 years when the US declassifies their intel docs.

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u/krad-31337 Oct 07 '22

Or we might not because Russia never declassifies their docs.

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u/Palimon Oct 07 '22

I'm not saying the US did it, i'm saying they already know who did.

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u/TheBlunderguff Oct 06 '22

who is the culprit who wanted to damage Europe?

If it is Russia, then they have permanently closed down their own gas industry in Europe. Tis' not a genius move by Russia if it is the case, but it is not unlikely with their history of such operations in mind.

People that could have doubts about the resolve of the west, might also have done it to prevent the option of giving in to Russia, should the cold and gas become a problem during winter. Who these people could be, is hard to tell. Was it discovered that a foreign nation (other than Russia and Germany) had attacked this critical infrastructure, it would have some consequences I can only imagine the scale of.

I don't think, we know enough to make a solid guess yet.

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u/Electromotivation Oct 06 '22

I haven't seen anyone discuss a non-governmental agency yet. Is the scale of the attack simply too grand to have been anything but the direct actions of a nation?

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u/aaaaaaaarrrrrgh Oct 07 '22 edited Oct 07 '22

Who would have a motive?

And while possible, there aren't many people who have both the ability to get hundreds of kilos of explosives and the skills to operate at such depths (although I've seen mentions of 50 meters which isn't that complicated, a recreational diver with some time to research, enough air to decompress, and a healthy amount of disregard for safety might be able to pull it off without extra training and still survive).

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u/Oreolover1907 Oct 06 '22

I've been thinking as an alternative theory than a nation state doing it would be from Gazprom or however its spelled that own the pipelines. Or a group connected to Gazprom or its executives.

They put a lot of money into NS2 and it was basically killed off before it was able to open. I have no idea what the insurance is like or if it'd benefit them at all. And from what else I've read NS2 has 2 different pipes and one of them is untouched and technically operational

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u/Barbarake Oct 07 '22

I was thinking Gazprom (?) also. I remember someone suggesting that they did it themselves to get out of having to pay fines for not fulfilling contracts, etc etc.

I have no idea how logical this is, anyone have any thoughts?

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u/eldmise Oct 07 '22

Gazprom doesnt give a fuck about contracts with the EU anymore - they already unilaterally changed contrcts when demanded to be payed in rubles and cancelled contracts with countries who refused. And that was totally expected after a lot of european companies cancelled their contracts with russia due to sanctions.

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u/shadowtheimpure Oct 06 '22

Caused by Russia, no doubt.

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u/TheRealPinkyMalinky Oct 07 '22

100% If it was someone else they’d be a a lot more pissed off about it, but by their standards they barely reacted. Also there’s been tons of sightings of unidentified drones around Norwegian gas infrastructure, power plants, offshore gas/oil rigs.

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u/Meanmanjr Oct 06 '22

I am going to stay on the fence. To jump to conclusions and say that Russia did this would be a little ignorant. US gains tremendously now that the pipelines are nonfunctional. Other LNG producers stand to gain from this as well.

I just really hope they can't come to a conclusion because I don't want any more shit hitting the fan.

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u/SlothOfDoom Oct 06 '22

This was obviously done by North Korea. Their war with the sea has ramped up in the last few weeks, as we can tell from all of their recent missile launches.

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u/policemenconnoisseur Oct 06 '22

That fucking water, it's everywhere.

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u/StannisTheMantis93 Oct 06 '22

North Korea doesn’t need any fancy water anyway, the dear leader can make food out of air.

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u/[deleted] Oct 07 '22

[deleted]

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u/OSUfan88 Oct 07 '22

And it’s been found in body of everyone who’s died.

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u/[deleted] Oct 06 '22

Took me a second. I was trying to think about the geopolitical reasoning and subversions.... Take the upvote.

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u/schreist Oct 06 '22

Big ocean water.

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u/_awacz_ Oct 07 '22

I see what you did there, bigly.

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u/TheAlpacaBackpack Oct 06 '22

I feel like there's a "the fish keep side eyeing him" joke to be made here, but I'm not sure what it is.

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u/I-Have-An-Alibi Oct 07 '22

North Korea and South Korea have been secretly keeping Cthulu at bay, the entire hostility is a ruse to keep everyone else from discovering their horrifying burden.

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u/UnRealistic_Load Oct 06 '22

Cetaceans. They are so tired of our shit and also dont know what methane is.

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u/loafers_glory Oct 06 '22

Cetaceans are behind the detonacean?

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u/r-reading-my-comment Oct 06 '22

I saw the obvious headline thought this was r/science for a sec.

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u/intercontinentalfx Oct 06 '22

Oh wow.. I’m sure that was a twist no one saw coming

5

u/Throwaway__shmoe Oct 06 '22

No one suspects the cook.

3

u/loafers_glory Oct 06 '22

I'm not even a good cook. But there are some things I'm good at.

Wait, wrong movie...

7

u/TelevisionLess6031 Oct 06 '22

“…And also, apparently, that the water they were diving in, was wet.”

14

u/sweepyslick Oct 06 '22

Giselle Bundchen is blowing up everything good at the moment my bet is that it was her. Bring her in boys.

54

u/Miltawne Oct 06 '22

Sims 3 found on site

8

u/Bastuhingst Oct 06 '22

"Boris! THREE SIM CARDS, NOT SIMS 3! "

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u/VovaGoFuckYourself Oct 06 '22

I'll never get over this

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u/StickAFork Oct 06 '22

The Beastie Boys could have told you that.

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u/loafers_glory Oct 06 '22

They decided the sea needed some means of access to the inside of the pipeline, so they're gonna set it straight, this water gate

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u/[deleted] Oct 06 '22

[deleted]

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u/Thomsonation Oct 06 '22

Oh no nota Finnwin!

5

u/creepingcold Oct 07 '22

From all the theories that are out there I'm quite confident that we can dismiss this one, because Finland doesn't exist.

14

u/theassassintherapist Oct 06 '22

Norway is also quite sus with their untimely announcement of supplying gas to poland through a new Baltic Pipe.

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u/nomofica Oct 06 '22

Or, perhaps, that's what prompted Russia to bomb the pipelines, just like they tried in Georgia in 2008 when BP was reopening one there, and just like they did in Chechnya in 2006, and blamed it on Chechen rebels.

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u/jaktlaget Oct 06 '22

Norwegian here: it's not us. We have endless money, and really the gas prices is just stress for us, as it makes our partners poorer. Plus, we actually follow international laws.

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u/--X0X0-- Oct 06 '22

The gas is also hurting the fish in the area and we all know Norway makes some decent money selling/growing salmon.

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u/HurricaneRon Oct 06 '22

Russia could admit they did it and nothing would change. They’re committed to their downfall and the world won’t do anything more aggressive than what is already taking place.

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u/ISLAndBreezESTeve10 Oct 07 '22

This just in: The Giant hole in the pipeline that was supposed to last 100 years, was a bomb. I want that guy’s paycheck.

21

u/fictionallymarried Oct 06 '22

How about letting people vote on a totally legit referendum and declare Russia as the culprit?

20

u/Soggy-Drawing-2256 Oct 06 '22

Russia didn’t blow it up.

Putin did.

He knows that there would’ve been a chance of someone taking him out and starting negotiations in opening the pipeline back up after claiming no ties with Putin.

Now there’s no chance of his successor trying to negotiate with the EU since its up in flames already anyways..

2

u/TrypZdubstep Oct 07 '22

The US Blew it up. Biden stated in February we would put an end to the pipeline if things got out of hand with Russia, seems to me things are getting out of hand with Russia....

36

u/BERNIE_IS_A_FRAUD Oct 06 '22

The sites of each detonation are within Denmark's exclusive economic zone.

If it's determined that Russia bombed the pipeline, could that be a NATO Article 5 event?

21

u/ConnaaaR69 Oct 06 '22

if Article 5 wasn’t triggered when Russia used chemical weapons in a restaurant in the UK then this is unlikely to result in it either.

6

u/krad-31337 Oct 07 '22

The UK chose not to trigger it because I guess someone using what is classified as a WMD on your territory i s no biggie.

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u/BurnTrees- Oct 06 '22

It wasn’t in their territorial waters. Also it’s not like NATO really needs an excuse to begin war with Russia, it’s more that they really don’t want to.

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u/[deleted] Oct 06 '22

[deleted]

25

u/fofosfederation Oct 06 '22

This is incorrect. Only their territorial waters are sovereign. Whether countries act like it is a different matter, but that's what international law says.

23

u/NorthernerWuwu Oct 06 '22

Navies routinely conduct freedom of navigation exercises specifically within other country's EEZs. America has specifically done so in China's EEZ, as is permitted by international law.

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u/Public_Hour5698 Oct 06 '22

Moscow seeks to pin the blame on the West, suggesting the United States stood to gain.

Funny how anonymous social media users were parroting the same line very quickly

9

u/Notlagy Oct 06 '22

What?? They didn't invite the propagandists, liars, and deniers to purposefully mislead an investigation? I'm amazed!

2

u/deep0currency Oct 07 '22

Fascinating that this falls under the jurisdiction of the Swedish police.

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u/milkman1316 Oct 07 '22

No doubt it was sharks with Lazer beams

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u/Cygnus__A Oct 07 '22

Color me surprised

13

u/BruceThereItIs Oct 06 '22

New plan, don't do any business whatsoever with Russia or any country that works with Russia. Fuck them all.

2

u/kbehr92 Oct 06 '22

Why do you think Russia did this

2

u/CSI_Tech_Dept Oct 07 '22

Because US doesn't have interest in jeopardizing NATO by sabotaging an ally so it can't fill reserves for the winter.

Russia also doesn't have interest in it, but putin has. If someone had an idea to maybe put bullet in putin's head and have a new guy to reopen the pipelines, when there's nothing to open anymore, there's no urgent need to have him replaced.

2

u/TrypZdubstep Oct 07 '22

If that's the case then why did Biden publicly state in February we would put an end to the pipeline if things with Russia got out of hand? Seems things with Russia are getting out of hand.

Thisnisn't sabotaging an ally, it's cutting business deals with the enemy, creating more reliance on the US.

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u/healthismywealth Oct 06 '22

russia = irrational bad guys. west = moral good guys. of course russia did. if something goes bad in the world, you need no logic or rational or motivations. it's simply russia.

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u/les_mf_vegetables Oct 06 '22

I am fascinated by this mystery. Do you'll think we will ever know 100% for sure who did this? I am not sure we will but could just be me being cynical.

22

u/SewerDefiler Oct 06 '22

Perhaps at some point in the future. It caused me to raise eyebrows when no one admitted to it.

I am just waiting for some solid evidence to turn up as of right now. A number of nations have good reason to have blown it up so in the meantime 🤷

6

u/SneakyBitchTits Oct 06 '22

Sounds like everybody wins!

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u/purplepatch Oct 06 '22

Almost certainly Russia

12

u/kbehr92 Oct 06 '22

I would describe it as extremely uncertain actually

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u/[deleted] Oct 06 '22

Sorry guys it was me. My bad

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u/DeusExMcKenna Oct 06 '22

H…h…how many doctors were near the pipeline?!

2

u/[deleted] Oct 06 '22

In terms of alive ones none

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u/LimpProof Oct 06 '22

I knew apples were evil abominations.

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u/DaqTap Oct 06 '22

American news reported that for the first time in history, the US was the largest exporter of natural gas to the rest of the world. THE FIRST TIME IN HISTORY. I am American. I hope like hell we didn't do this, but, what other nation would have the most to gain from this event?

2

u/CSI_Tech_Dept Oct 07 '22

That's before this explosion the pipeline was already restricted. To 20%, some EU countries were already cut off Russian gas.

Imagine you're putin, you forced GazProm to stop sending gas to EU, because you want the population to freeze, forcing revolts.

Some of oligarchs don't like that idea, so you "suicide" them. But now what about them plotting to put bullet in your head, get someone new and reopen the pipeline?

Well, if there is nothing to open anymore, there's less chance that someone would be trying something.

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u/daedalus2174 Oct 06 '22

no shit...how fucking stupid do they think we are now? cold war nonsense trying to re-start col war tension because...well the politics have just run out. Again.

3

u/anxmox89 Oct 06 '22

Tucker Carlson this evening is going to say that the evidence showed that the US is responsible, maybe he will invite traitor Tulsi for comments

3

u/YggdrasilsLeaf Oct 06 '22 edited Oct 06 '22

The perfectly and strategically placed explosions didn’t tip them off to begin with?

Edit: I’m sorry but what is even the point? Of the speculations and investigations and everything else?

The entire planet knows exactly who sabotaged the pipelines and why. I get that there needs to be a certain level of decorum, war has rules after all…..

But the man is going out of his way to break as many rules as possible in as short a time as is possible and maybe?

It’s time we stopped being scared of Russia and just end it finally. Because if the rest of the world doesn’t actually deal with this now, before it gets worse and his dementia also worsens?

I mean…. How many nukes would he have to erratically deploy? How many troops need to die, defect or worse get caught and killed for desertion? How many nations need to get involved and do we really want WW3 directly after a three year long pandemic?

Our species can’t survive like this and it’s time for some serious change. WORLDWIDE. Because humanity is global now. We really aren’t a series of tribes anymore. We are GLOBALLY connected to one another now.

Can’t have random despots throwing nuclear temper tantrums every other week. Ya feel me? Can’t have dictators or religious zealots running things anymore. We have evolved past that and it’s high time we evolved society to keep up with the times.

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u/lazy-bruce Oct 06 '22

I've been told by my Trump supporting acquaintances that Joe Biden did it.

So I'm happy for Sweeden to do the review, not that these people will believe the report, but at least it will be there.

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u/SNEAKYdoodLE11 Oct 07 '22

That’s what happens when you start a war without proper reasoning. Russia doesn’t deserve to be part of anything international as long as they are at war with Ukraine. The countries that are making deals with them and supporting them are going to face political repercussions for years for supporting a country waging an unjust war.

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u/Gordon1229 Oct 06 '22

Classic Putin's move to redirect hate away from him.

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u/riaKoob1 Oct 06 '22

There is a president that claimed this will happen and that he will make it happened earlier in the year. This president is part of the biggest exporter of liquid natural gas in the world that could benefit from this pipe being blown up. I’m surprised that people are not willing to look for a motive while trying to find out who is the biggest beneficiary from this. If there is a murder to be solved people look at motive…

Now I’m prepared to be downvoted to hell.

https://youtube.com/shorts/FVbEoZXhCrM?feature=share

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u/lordofedging81 Oct 06 '22

Biden did it! I bet he did it personally. He had a little submarine and had just a little help from Navy seals. But it was mostly him personally that planted the underwater explosion.

2

u/Rude-Bar9328 Oct 06 '22

No way! It was obvious before investigation.

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u/WasHappyOnce Oct 06 '22

Whyd Russia sabotage it's own pipeline and main strategic leverage in the war?

32

u/VakoKocurik Oct 06 '22

They did the same shit in Georgia twice.

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u/nomofica Oct 06 '22 edited Oct 06 '22

Also in Chechnya.

Russia has one playbook and retaliatory bombing of energy infrastructure such as pipelines is pulled directly from it.

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u/D-Moran Oct 06 '22 edited Oct 06 '22
  1. Insert an element of uncertainty in Europe's energy market and push up prices. Whoever attacked the pipelines could attack other infrastructure.

  2. Hope that surging prices sow political division within Europe. A reduction in support to Ukraine would be a boost to Russia's faltering military campaign.

  3. Deny responsibility for the sabotage and invoke force majeure in an attempt to avoid any contract penalties.

Edit: if you're referring to the shutoff of supply as "strategic leverage", that card was played well before the explosions.

27

u/Madprofeser Oct 06 '22

I'd also say it's good for Putin, but bad for Russia in the future.

With the pipeline intact, opposition to Putin could use it as a reason to get rid of him. 'If we overthrow Putin we can restart that sweet oil money' However, now that the Pipeline is unusable having Putin still in charge won't change anything.

So basically a future Russia without Putin could take advantage of the pipeline, so by removing that source of money for the foreseeable future, it's less incentive to get rid of Putin.

9

u/PluotFinnegan_IV Oct 06 '22

I'm not sure it's a total loss for Putin's opposition. The argument simply goes from "turning the pipe back on" to "fast-tracking its repair" which would buy a lot of the same goodwill back assuming this new Russian leadership also pulled out of Ukraine, restored relations, reparations, etc.

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u/Euro-Canuck Oct 06 '22

My first thoughts exactly

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u/notbatmanyet Oct 06 '22

Same reason why Gazprom execs keep falling out of windows I imagine.

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u/Scarred4Life51 Oct 06 '22

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u/14sierra Oct 06 '22

For the TLDW crowd: Russia probably did it

(But you should watch it, it's a really interesting video)

9

u/Lurnmoshkaz Oct 06 '22

Why is it that in the midst of tightening relations with Europe with Europe placing its energy infrastructure on Russian hands, did Russia decide to invade Ukraine and completely ruin its relations in Europe for the next few decades? Completely risking a economic collapse due to the west's retaliation?

Why would they attempt a full scale invasion with a degraded and non-functional military?

Perhaps maybe we should stop assuming Russians are intelligent because it's quite evident they aren't.

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u/FM-101 Oct 06 '22

They already used up all that leverage when they turned off the gas. Its literally just a useless pipe with zero value. Especially since Europe does not want to rely on russian gas and are working out alternatves.

The only thing the pipe can be used for now is to blow it up and blame it on the west, so that people will say things like "Whyd Russia sabotage it's own pipeline" which russia gains from, however little.

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u/Superraket Oct 06 '22

NS1 have been down for "maintenance" for some time.

NS2 have never been approved for use by the Germans (which are at the receiving end).

Both NS1 and NS2 consists of two strings. Both NS1 strings are destroyed, but only one of the NS2 strings is damaged. This is very important.

There are contacts in place for NS1 with some kind of price agreement and commitment to deliver gas. By sabotaging NS1 Russia can free themselves from these contracts. Their BS excuse with maintenance will only stand for a while.

NS2 on the other hand still lack signed contracts, i.e. Russia can still change the terms. By taking NS1 out of the picture, they can force EU to approve NS2 and approve it with a better deal for Russia.

In the mean time raising gas prices will cause a lot of problems in EU. Some of the poorer countries will suffer quite a lot, as they are very dependent on gas. Even people in richer countries are starting to get worried, businesses are closing due to rising costs which are driven by the energy crisis. All of which, if it gets bad enough, can force people to force their leaders to slacken the support for Ukraine. This is Putins goal. He want EU to suffer and stop the support to Ukraine.

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