r/worldnews • u/JPR_FI • Oct 06 '22
Nord Stream investigation finds evidence of detonations, Swedish police say
https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/kremlin-says-russia-not-invited-nord-stream-investigation-2022-10-06/741
u/SlothOfDoom Oct 06 '22
This was obviously done by North Korea. Their war with the sea has ramped up in the last few weeks, as we can tell from all of their recent missile launches.
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Oct 06 '22
That fucking water, it's everywhere.
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u/StannisTheMantis93 Oct 06 '22
North Korea doesn’t need any fancy water anyway, the dear leader can make food out of air.
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Oct 06 '22
Took me a second. I was trying to think about the geopolitical reasoning and subversions.... Take the upvote.
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u/TheAlpacaBackpack Oct 06 '22
I feel like there's a "the fish keep side eyeing him" joke to be made here, but I'm not sure what it is.
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u/I-Have-An-Alibi Oct 07 '22
North Korea and South Korea have been secretly keeping Cthulu at bay, the entire hostility is a ruse to keep everyone else from discovering their horrifying burden.
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u/Arkane-Light Oct 06 '22
From the article:
"A crime scene investigation of the Nord Stream 1 and 2 gas pipelines has strenghtened suspicions of GROSS SABOTAGE involving detonations, Sweden's Security Service said on Thursday.
Swedish and Danish authorities have been investigating four leaks from the pipelines in Swedish and Danish exclusive economic zones in the Baltic Sea since they were spotted last week.
The Nord Stream 1 and 2 pipelines have been centre of a debate that has been going on amid the war in Ukraine between Russia and Europe, where Russia has been shutting the gas to European countries during the past months.
Moscow has tried blaming the West on the accident saying the US were to gain from the accident."
So, now that it is official that it is sabotage (drones were also spotted in the area), who is the culprit who wanted to damage Europe? Give your guesses people.
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u/ledelleakles Oct 06 '22
Without a smoking gun, it is really difficult to say for sure. One side has a pretty long history with bombing things in false flag operations, however.
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u/HebrewHammer0033 Oct 06 '22
There is ALWAYS forensic evidence if you look for it.
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u/tehmpus Oct 06 '22
I'm imagining that by examining the pieces of broken pipe, one could determine if the explosion was started from inside the pipe, or outside of it.
And the location of the pieces could determine if they were blown outward by an explosion, or impacted inward by a nearby exterior explosion.
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u/GeoGeoGeoGeo Oct 07 '22
Geoforensics
Gather the burned residue left behind by the combustion process (even microscopic amounts will do). Analyse it for its isotopic composition, which can then be used to identify the source of the explosive material and hence who has access to that specific composition / supplier.
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u/Winterplatypus Oct 07 '22
This internal/external debate seems to be alluding to the idea that internal=russia, external=someone else. External explosion is the most likely way it was done, and russia is the best equipped nation in the area to do externally. External explosion does not in any way clear russia or even make it less likely to be russia.
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u/Fox_Kurama Oct 08 '22
It was likely outside. Russian naval assets were in the area at the time. And at least someone there is likely competent enough to know that "if we explode it from the inside its too obvious."
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u/HebrewHammer0033 Oct 06 '22
Or torpedo fragments
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u/lostkavi Oct 07 '22
Significantly easier and stealthier ways to blow up an underwater gas pipe than by torpedoing it.
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u/dick_himmel Oct 07 '22
Thats exactly what the torpedoer would want you to think
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u/happyscrappy Oct 07 '22
It's underwater and has been for days. A small current could carry evidence away.
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u/PaximusRex Oct 06 '22
One side? All sides have long histories of bombing things and false flag operations.
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u/skeetsauce Oct 06 '22 edited Oct 06 '22
The thing is, why would they destroy the small amount of leverage they had? Now they have nothing, makes no sense to do it to yourself when you’re bleeding resources on every other front. Makes a lot more sense that the US or one of its allies did it did imo. Fuck Russia for the record before someone says I’m supporting those evil fuckers.
Edit: I’m just saying I think Russia had the most to lose from this, why the fuck are people responding as if I’m personally sucking off putin? Chill out folks
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u/wastingvaluelesstime Oct 07 '22
one theory is that it's a commitment device so that elites in russia don't think that getting rid of putin would get their gas trade back
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u/krad-31337 Oct 06 '22
They didn't destroy their leverage.
Nord Stream 2 line B wasn't damaged and there are two other pipelines (Yamal and Transgas) to Northern Europe for Russian gas with more free capacity than was destroyed.
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u/eldmise Oct 07 '22
No chance anyone will rely on this pipeline now, when there some people ready to sabotage gas pipelines.
But I agree, they did not destroy their leverage. Someone else did it.
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u/MsEscapist Oct 06 '22
For Russia it might not make sense, for Putin it makes perfect sense. If anyone was thinking it might be worth the risk of killing him to get the gas flowing again, oops that option is no longer on the table, and whoever might think they could use the revenue stream from that to quickly shore up support in the wake of a coup knows they can't.
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u/MrEff1618 Oct 07 '22
There's also the timing. I don't think it's a coincidence this happened shortly after the Baltic Pipe pipeline started pumping gas. The sabotage demonstrates that Russia has the capability to target undersea pipelines if they wish.
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u/Vaadwaur Oct 06 '22
Its this. If some smart general put a bullet in the back of Putin's head, weathers the immediate storm of who gets the lead, and then orders a complete cessation to the Ukrainian war and offers to toss Crimea in as compensation there is that tiny chance that sanctions can be loosened. But without something tangible, like natural gas, to offer back to Europe they are still screwed.
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u/SimUnit Oct 06 '22
You're assuming it was to exert leverage over Europe. It could also have been to defuse (or confuse) internal Russian factions that wanted to get "back to business".
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u/skeetsauce Oct 06 '22
So my assumptions are bad but your assumptions are not? I’m just calling it how I see it, I admit I don’t know anything but y’all that KNOW it was Putin directly.
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u/skyderper13 Oct 06 '22
if russia has demonstrated annything this past year, its their overwhelming capability for rationality, oops i meant the opposite of that. but if you look long enough enough at any party significant enough and you'll find ample motive and the capability. its hard to really definitely point at any one of them
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u/onegunzo Oct 06 '22
Canada Geese! Where were they on that day?
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u/Twudie Oct 06 '22
Knowing how evil Canadian geese are, likely carpet bombing an orphanage.
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u/stinkychzman Oct 06 '22
IF YOU’VE GOT A PROBLEM WITH CANADA GOOSES THEN YOU GOT A PROBLEM WITH ME NOW I SUGGEST YOU LET THAT ONE MARINATE.
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u/SpilledGenderFluid Oct 06 '22
Nah, Canadian Geese are the spawn of Satan.
Source: am Canadian
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u/stinkychzman Oct 06 '22
Absolutely…..
But If you missed the reference you need to go watch Letterkenny the tv show…..it’s Canadian comedy GOLD.
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u/icematt12 Oct 06 '22
I'm kind of surprised Russia hasn't come out with flawed evidence accusing someone.
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u/WhyDeleteIt Oct 07 '22
They don't need to when the US is tacitly admitting it themselves, lol.
Biden said in February that the US would "put an end" to the Nord Stream pipeline. Olaf Scholz was present at this press conference. So the head of the German government was told bluntly by the American president that the decision on Nord Stream would not be taken in Berlin.
At the end of January, Nuland said: "If Russia invades Ukraine, Nord Stream 2 will not go forward one way or another."
And now we have Blinken saying that the destruction of Nord Stream is a "tremendous opportunity".
The US could not have stopped Nord Stream if it respected the law. The decisive legal leverage lies with the EU's energy law - and the US has absolutely no say in that. So the US only had the option to let it be or to blow it up.
Another bonus of the Nord Stream failure is that Germany now has to look for alternatives for gas supplies, such as expensive fracked gas from the USA. And as luck would have it, the Baltic Pipe, operated by Poland, Norway and Denmark, was opened practically on the same day as the Nord Stream destruction. On the American side, therefore, there would be both a clear motive, as admitted by its very own leaders, and the technical possibilities to carry out such an attack. Not insignificant is also the fact that shortly before the attack, a fleet of the US Navy had crossed the Fehmarn Belt and was exactly in the area where the leaks appeared.
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u/lo0l0ol Oct 06 '22
Where was Obamna on that day hmmmm?
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u/ElbisCochuelo1 Oct 06 '22
Wearing a tan suit and eating a burger with Dijon mustard at the same time.
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u/lo0l0ol Oct 06 '22 edited Oct 06 '22
He did go snorkeling once with national geographic. Not pointing any fingers but...
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Oct 07 '22
The armchair conspiracy theorists of my circles suspect either the US, as a way to fuck with Russia and ensure they stay cut off into the future, or Putin himself as a way to give less potential economic advantage to someone who might want to overthrow him.
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Oct 07 '22
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u/eldmise Oct 07 '22
There was a chance that in case of harsh winter Europe tries to negotiate with Putin for gas. And it is impossible to rely on russian gas pipelines now, when there are people ready to blow them up
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u/luntglor Oct 07 '22
everyone is focusing on countries .. but BigOil companies have enough resources to also do it.
it wouldn't surprise if this was a private operation .. from one of the companies that benefit from making sure Europe doesn't have second thoughts
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Oct 07 '22 edited Jun 15 '23
[deleted]
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u/KrazyRooster Oct 07 '22
Because they would be liable for breaking multiple contracts, which would cost billions. If they just sabotage it and no one can prove it was them, then they are cutting the supply without paying any penalties.
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u/MrEff1618 Oct 07 '22
Few reasons:
- To remove it as leverage. No doubt the various intelligence services in NATO have been trying or have already made contact with Russian oligarchs and military officials. By suggesting the pipeline could resume operations were Putin to have an 'accident' or be deposed and Russian forces be withdrawn from Ukraine. it could act as a strong motivator for them to do something. That's not an option now.
- To hurt Europe. Putin had that little speech not long after it happened where he basically said he's had enough of the West and wants to punish Europe. Blowing up the pipeline now ensures there's no negotiations to bring it online over winter. I'm guessing he's hoping there will be civil unrest if countries can't provide power and heating over this time.
- Show of force. The damage happened shortly after the Baltic Pipe pipeline started pumping gas from Norway. This too is an undersea pipeline in places, and this attack demonstrates Russia has the ability to target undersea pipelines.
- False flag. No doubt in Russian media it's being blamed on NATO or America, so something to help stir up patriotism in the people.
- Insurance fraud. My opinion the least likely single motive, but a handy side effect, the pipeline hadn't been pumping gas for months before the bombing. Gazprom (49% owned by the Russian government) were claiming that equipment was damaged and could not be repaired since the sanctions were blocking the importation of replacement parts. They were facing serious legal action over breach of contracts and could have had foreign assets seized as compensation. Now they can blame the bombing.
In my opinion this was Putin showing what lengths he'd go to (both to those in Russia and Europe) to stay in power. Behind the scenes there is a lot going on that we probably won't hear about for tens of years, but will help this act make sense.
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u/Palimon Oct 06 '22
We'll know in 50 years when the US declassifies their intel docs.
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u/TheBlunderguff Oct 06 '22
who is the culprit who wanted to damage Europe?
If it is Russia, then they have permanently closed down their own gas industry in Europe. Tis' not a genius move by Russia if it is the case, but it is not unlikely with their history of such operations in mind.
People that could have doubts about the resolve of the west, might also have done it to prevent the option of giving in to Russia, should the cold and gas become a problem during winter. Who these people could be, is hard to tell. Was it discovered that a foreign nation (other than Russia and Germany) had attacked this critical infrastructure, it would have some consequences I can only imagine the scale of.
I don't think, we know enough to make a solid guess yet.
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u/Electromotivation Oct 06 '22
I haven't seen anyone discuss a non-governmental agency yet. Is the scale of the attack simply too grand to have been anything but the direct actions of a nation?
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u/aaaaaaaarrrrrgh Oct 07 '22 edited Oct 07 '22
Who would have a motive?
And while possible, there aren't many people who have both the ability to get hundreds of kilos of explosives and the skills to operate at such depths (although I've seen mentions of 50 meters which isn't that complicated, a recreational diver with some time to research, enough air to decompress, and a healthy amount of disregard for safety might be able to pull it off without extra training and still survive).
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u/Oreolover1907 Oct 06 '22
I've been thinking as an alternative theory than a nation state doing it would be from Gazprom or however its spelled that own the pipelines. Or a group connected to Gazprom or its executives.
They put a lot of money into NS2 and it was basically killed off before it was able to open. I have no idea what the insurance is like or if it'd benefit them at all. And from what else I've read NS2 has 2 different pipes and one of them is untouched and technically operational
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u/Barbarake Oct 07 '22
I was thinking Gazprom (?) also. I remember someone suggesting that they did it themselves to get out of having to pay fines for not fulfilling contracts, etc etc.
I have no idea how logical this is, anyone have any thoughts?
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u/eldmise Oct 07 '22
Gazprom doesnt give a fuck about contracts with the EU anymore - they already unilaterally changed contrcts when demanded to be payed in rubles and cancelled contracts with countries who refused. And that was totally expected after a lot of european companies cancelled their contracts with russia due to sanctions.
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u/shadowtheimpure Oct 06 '22
Caused by Russia, no doubt.
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u/TheRealPinkyMalinky Oct 07 '22
100% If it was someone else they’d be a a lot more pissed off about it, but by their standards they barely reacted. Also there’s been tons of sightings of unidentified drones around Norwegian gas infrastructure, power plants, offshore gas/oil rigs.
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u/UnRealistic_Load Oct 06 '22
Cetaceans. They are so tired of our shit and also dont know what methane is.
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u/sweepyslick Oct 06 '22
Giselle Bundchen is blowing up everything good at the moment my bet is that it was her. Bring her in boys.
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u/Throwaway__shmoe Oct 06 '22
No one suspects the cook.
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u/loafers_glory Oct 06 '22
I'm not even a good cook. But there are some things I'm good at.
Wait, wrong movie...
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u/TelevisionLess6031 Oct 06 '22
“…And also, apparently, that the water they were diving in, was wet.”
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Oct 06 '22
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/creepingcold Oct 07 '22
From all the theories that are out there I'm quite confident that we can dismiss this one, because Finland doesn't exist.
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u/theassassintherapist Oct 06 '22
Norway is also quite sus with their untimely announcement of supplying gas to poland through a new Baltic Pipe.
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u/nomofica Oct 06 '22
Or, perhaps, that's what prompted Russia to bomb the pipelines, just like they tried in Georgia in 2008 when BP was reopening one there, and just like they did in Chechnya in 2006, and blamed it on Chechen rebels.
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u/jaktlaget Oct 06 '22
Norwegian here: it's not us. We have endless money, and really the gas prices is just stress for us, as it makes our partners poorer. Plus, we actually follow international laws.
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u/--X0X0-- Oct 06 '22
The gas is also hurting the fish in the area and we all know Norway makes some decent money selling/growing salmon.
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u/StickAFork Oct 06 '22
The Beastie Boys could have told you that.
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u/loafers_glory Oct 06 '22
They decided the sea needed some means of access to the inside of the pipeline, so they're gonna set it straight, this water gate
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u/HurricaneRon Oct 06 '22
Russia could admit they did it and nothing would change. They’re committed to their downfall and the world won’t do anything more aggressive than what is already taking place.
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u/fictionallymarried Oct 06 '22
How about letting people vote on a totally legit referendum and declare Russia as the culprit?
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u/BERNIE_IS_A_FRAUD Oct 06 '22
The sites of each detonation are within Denmark's exclusive economic zone.
If it's determined that Russia bombed the pipeline, could that be a NATO Article 5 event?
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u/BurnTrees- Oct 06 '22
It wasn’t in their territorial waters. Also it’s not like NATO really needs an excuse to begin war with Russia, it’s more that they really don’t want to.
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Oct 06 '22
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u/fofosfederation Oct 06 '22
This is incorrect. Only their territorial waters are sovereign. Whether countries act like it is a different matter, but that's what international law says.
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u/NorthernerWuwu Oct 06 '22
Navies routinely conduct freedom of navigation exercises specifically within other country's EEZs. America has specifically done so in China's EEZ, as is permitted by international law.
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u/ConnaaaR69 Oct 06 '22
if Article 5 wasn’t triggered when Russia used chemical weapons in a restaurant in the UK then this is unlikely to result in it either.
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u/krad-31337 Oct 07 '22
The UK chose not to trigger it because I guess someone using what is classified as a WMD on your territory i s no biggie.
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u/Soggy-Drawing-2256 Oct 06 '22
Russia didn’t blow it up.
Putin did.
He knows that there would’ve been a chance of someone taking him out and starting negotiations in opening the pipeline back up after claiming no ties with Putin.
Now there’s no chance of his successor trying to negotiate with the EU since its up in flames already anyways..
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u/TrypZdubstep Oct 07 '22
The US Blew it up. Biden stated in February we would put an end to the pipeline if things got out of hand with Russia, seems to me things are getting out of hand with Russia....
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u/Public_Hour5698 Oct 06 '22
Moscow seeks to pin the blame on the West, suggesting the United States stood to gain.
Funny how anonymous social media users were parroting the same line very quickly
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u/ISLAndBreezESTeve10 Oct 07 '22
This just in: The Giant hole in the pipeline that was supposed to last 100 years, was a bomb. I want that guy’s paycheck.
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u/BruceThereItIs Oct 06 '22
New plan, don't do any business whatsoever with Russia or any country that works with Russia. Fuck them all.
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u/kbehr92 Oct 06 '22
Why do you think Russia did this
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Oct 07 '22 edited Jul 19 '23
[deleted]
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u/TrypZdubstep Oct 07 '22
If that's the case then why did Biden publicly state in February we would put an end to the pipeline if things with Russia got out of hand? Seems things with Russia are getting out of hand.
Thisnisn't sabotaging an ally, it's cutting business deals with the enemy, creating more reliance on the US.
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u/borris11 Oct 07 '22
The pipes were literally shut down with US already providing EU with gas since March, it makes no sense for them to blow them up.
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u/healthismywealth Oct 06 '22
russia = irrational bad guys. west = moral good guys. of course russia did. if something goes bad in the world, you need no logic or rational or motivations. it's simply russia.
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Oct 06 '22
I am fascinated by this mystery. Do you'll think we will ever know 100% for sure who did this? I am not sure we will but could just be me being cynical.
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u/SewerDefiler Oct 06 '22
Perhaps at some point in the future. It caused me to raise eyebrows when no one admitted to it.
I am just waiting for some solid evidence to turn up as of right now. A number of nations have good reason to have blown it up so in the meantime 🤷
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Oct 06 '22
Sorry guys it was me. My bad
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u/DaqTap Oct 06 '22
American news reported that for the first time in history, the US was the largest exporter of natural gas to the rest of the world. THE FIRST TIME IN HISTORY. I am American. I hope like hell we didn't do this, but, what other nation would have the most to gain from this event?
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u/deep0currency Oct 07 '22
Fascinating that this falls under the jurisdiction of the Swedish police.
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u/daedalus2174 Oct 06 '22
no shit...how fucking stupid do they think we are now? cold war nonsense trying to re-start col war tension because...well the politics have just run out. Again.
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u/anxmox89 Oct 06 '22
Tucker Carlson this evening is going to say that the evidence showed that the US is responsible, maybe he will invite traitor Tulsi for comments
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u/YggdrasilsLeaf Oct 06 '22 edited Oct 06 '22
The perfectly and strategically placed explosions didn’t tip them off to begin with?
Edit: I’m sorry but what is even the point? Of the speculations and investigations and everything else?
The entire planet knows exactly who sabotaged the pipelines and why. I get that there needs to be a certain level of decorum, war has rules after all…..
But the man is going out of his way to break as many rules as possible in as short a time as is possible and maybe?
It’s time we stopped being scared of Russia and just end it finally. Because if the rest of the world doesn’t actually deal with this now, before it gets worse and his dementia also worsens?
I mean…. How many nukes would he have to erratically deploy? How many troops need to die, defect or worse get caught and killed for desertion? How many nations need to get involved and do we really want WW3 directly after a three year long pandemic?
Our species can’t survive like this and it’s time for some serious change. WORLDWIDE. Because humanity is global now. We really aren’t a series of tribes anymore. We are GLOBALLY connected to one another now.
Can’t have random despots throwing nuclear temper tantrums every other week. Ya feel me? Can’t have dictators or religious zealots running things anymore. We have evolved past that and it’s high time we evolved society to keep up with the times.
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u/lazy-bruce Oct 06 '22
I've been told by my Trump supporting acquaintances that Joe Biden did it.
So I'm happy for Sweeden to do the review, not that these people will believe the report, but at least it will be there.
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u/SNEAKYdoodLE11 Oct 07 '22
That’s what happens when you start a war without proper reasoning. Russia doesn’t deserve to be part of anything international as long as they are at war with Ukraine. The countries that are making deals with them and supporting them are going to face political repercussions for years for supporting a country waging an unjust war.
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u/riaKoob1 Oct 06 '22
There is a president that claimed this will happen and that he will make it happened earlier in the year. This president is part of the biggest exporter of liquid natural gas in the world that could benefit from this pipe being blown up. I’m surprised that people are not willing to look for a motive while trying to find out who is the biggest beneficiary from this. If there is a murder to be solved people look at motive…
Now I’m prepared to be downvoted to hell.
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u/lordofedging81 Oct 06 '22
Biden did it! I bet he did it personally. He had a little submarine and had just a little help from Navy seals. But it was mostly him personally that planted the underwater explosion.
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u/grover1233 Oct 06 '22
Let’s give it a few more months then annex Belarus and all of Russia except for Moscow. We’ll promise to put a McDs and Taco Bell on every street to keep the locals kind of happy because well its McDs and Taco Bell. Last offer
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u/TrypZdubstep Oct 07 '22
Anyone remember in february when Biden stated we would put an end to the pipeline if things got out of hand with Russia? Seems to me things are getting out of hand with Russia.
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u/WasHappyOnce Oct 06 '22
Whyd Russia sabotage it's own pipeline and main strategic leverage in the war?
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u/Beowoulf355 Oct 06 '22 edited Oct 06 '22
I don't see them mention if the pipes showed detonation from the inside or outside. If from the inside then someone put explosives on maintenance pigs and blow them up at designated locations. If from the outside, it will be harder to prove who did it unless they find other evidence.
Edit: https://www.rigzone.com/training/insight.asp?insight_id=310&c_id=